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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I plan on doing my own water cooling loop for the first time in the next month or so. Please tell me if what I have selected would perform well. My build is black with red accents. I am building in the Cosmos SE, so space is a little confined, but I want to maximize the available space.

Radiators: 2x XSPC AX240/EK CoolStream PE 240

CM told me that distance between the top of the case to the top of the motherboard is 40mm, so I would need a 40mm thick radiator or thinner.

Fans: 4x NB eLoop 120mm Red by Phobya
Res/Pump Combo: Monsoon Series 2 Premium M2 D5 Duel Bay Reservoir
Tubing/Fittings: 1/2 ID, 3/4 OD, non-transparent Black w/ Red fittings
Coolant: Distilled Water with anti-corrosives and anti-microbials
Waterblocks: Haven't researched, would like suggestions...

I will be overclocking my 4770K and Nvidia's GTX 900 series 8GB (rumored) card.

What do you guys think about what I have selected? I'm a little worried I may not have enough surface area to cool the CPU and GPU, but I'm not 100% sure. Any suggestions or modifications to the rig would be most helpful.
 

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http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/cooler-master-cosmos-se/7/

Looks like room for a DVD-ROM... if not you could probably fit a slim dvd-rom

I don't use internal DVD-ROMs myself... have a USB one for the once in a great while I need it.

I'm a big fan of the monsoon reservoirs... I have a dual bay D5 one myself with UV lighting.

I usually recommend grabbing a PWM D5 if you can do it... it allows the system to be completely silent while idling and having the highest pumping power when needed where as with a manual D5 you have to choose either some sort of lower speed to avoid noise or deal with the noise to have the power when it is needed.

I think that it would be possible to run a 3x140 radiator up front.

A 3x140 radiator is just slightly larger than a 4x120 radiator

Anyways as far as to if you have enough cooling capacity...

I am running a i5-4670K that can do 5GHz but I run it at 4.8GHz to have a much lower voltage. I also have (2) AMD R9-290X cards. The system is quite capable of staying cool with all of that running with my fans running at 1500RPM. I only have 4 fans on a GTX480 radiator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You can mount a 360mm radiator in the front, but then you would have to remove the drive bay covers and I wouldn't be able to put in the res/pump combo.
 

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Custom mesh grille? I am thinking about it on my TJ07 so I can mount a 2x140 or 3x140 up front.

They make plenty of intergrated tube reservoirs for D5 pumps.

This is all your call and personal preference but I just can't get into a case that can't handle a 3x or 4x radiator

Do you know if you can fit a 2x140 radiator on the top? That is almost as big as a 3x120.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeadMachine View Post

I might go with a 3x120 up front and get some 5.25" fan filters. I put a suggestion on the CM forums about coming up with a filtered version of those front covers. In that case, haha, I was looking at this Bitspower pump/res combo: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16242/ex-res-373/Bitspower_Single_D5_Pump_and_150_Reservoir_Combo_-_Installed.html

Any other suggestions?
Nothing wrong with it...

make sure you pay the extra $5 for the PWM feature.
 

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IMHO PWM D5s suck. Having a fluctuating pump speed can be annoying and unnecessary given that increased flow rates make very little if any improvements in temps. Much better is a D5 Vario where you can set it to the speed that suits you best, usually based on your threshold for noise, and leave it. To top it off PWM D5s don't properly follow PWM specifications, thus some mobos or even the Aquaero 6, for example, can't properly control the speed of a PWM D5. Here I'll let Darlene (IT Diva) explain it to you in a couple posts of hers ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

The PWM D5 doesn't work with the Aquaero 6 (A6) because the A6 follows the Intel PWM standard exactly, while the D5 has a non standard implementation as a design choice so that it can run at 60% speed with no PWM connection, as opposed to 100% speed like everything else that's PWM that follows the standard does.

Some mobos follow the standard exactly, and the PWM D5 doesn't work with those either.

Most mobos, it seems, have a slightly non-standard implementation that allows the D5 to work with them acceptably on the CPU header(s).

While most fans have a wide range of PWM duty cycle control . . . from about 25% to 100% PWM for min rpm to max rpm, the D5 has a narrower range from about 20% to 70% for min rpm to max rpm.

Sometimes what you use to control the PWM range from the mobo doesn't fit well with the 20% to 70% range, . . so that's something else to watch for and to be aware of once you get it hooked up.

If you find the D5 doesn't work with your mobo, other than the the control range isn't well suited, the little mod at the connector will fix it so it works with either the A6 or the mobo. . . . of course if it works with the A6, there's no reason to run it off the mobo.

Darlene
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

[...] Pullups are resistors that connect an electrical point in a circuit to a positive voltage level.

Intel developed a PWM standard for PC fans that specifies parameters like frequency, voltage levels, and current maximums etc.

According to that standard, the controlled device, ie the fan or pump, is to have an internal pullup resistor that brings the PWM line to either 3.3V or 5V.

The controlling device, ie the Aquaero or the mobo, only has to connect the PWM line to ground for intervals at the prescribed frequency.

It's actually the pullup voltage on the PWM line supplied by the controlled device that creates the actual presence of pulses.

The PWM D5 pumps do not have that internal pullup, so in order for them to work with some type of PWM controller, the controller itself has to have the pullup, which is outside of the Intel spec.

The Intel spec does not specify that the controller has to have a pullup, since it specifies the pullup to be in the device to be controlled.

[...] Some mobos have some level of internal pullup for the PWM line, even though the Intel spec does not require it.

It's kind of a might be a helpful thing, and can't really be a harmfully thing, so they go ahead and do it.

The [Aquaero 6], on the other hand, follows the spec, in that it has no internal pullup resistor bringing the PWM pin to 5V.

That's why it doesn't work with the PWM D5 [...]

Darlene
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

IMHO PWM D5s suck. Having a fluctuating pump speed can be annoying and unnecessary given that increased flow rates make very little if any improvements in temps. Much better is a D5 Vario where you can set it to the speed that suits you best, usually based on your threshold for noise, and leave it. To top it off PWM D5s don't properly follow PWM specifications, thus some mobos or even the Aquaero 6, for example, can't properly control the speed of a PWM D5. Here I'll let Darlene (IT Diva) explain it to you in a couple posts of hers ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

The PWM D5 doesn't work with the Aquaero 6 (A6) because the A6 follows the Intel PWM standard exactly, while the D5 has a non standard implementation as a design choice so that it can run at 60% speed with no PWM connection, as opposed to 100% speed like everything else that's PWM that follows the standard does.

Some mobos follow the standard exactly, and the PWM D5 doesn't work with those either.

Most mobos, it seems, have a slightly non-standard implementation that allows the D5 to work with them acceptably on the CPU header(s).

While most fans have a wide range of PWM duty cycle control . . . from about 25% to 100% PWM for min rpm to max rpm, the D5 has a narrower range from about 20% to 70% for min rpm to max rpm.

Sometimes what you use to control the PWM range from the mobo doesn't fit well with the 20% to 70% range, . . so that's something else to watch for and to be aware of once you get it hooked up.

If you find the D5 doesn't work with your mobo, other than the the control range isn't well suited, the little mod at the connector will fix it so it works with either the A6 or the mobo. . . . of course if it works with the A6, there's no reason to run it off the mobo.

Darlene
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

[...] Pullups are resistors that connect an electrical point in a circuit to a positive voltage level.

Intel developed a PWM standard for PC fans that specifies parameters like frequency, voltage levels, and current maximums etc.

According to that standard, the controlled device, ie the fan or pump, is to have an internal pullup resistor that brings the PWM line to either 3.3V or 5V.

The controlling device, ie the Aquaero or the mobo, only has to connect the PWM line to ground for intervals at the prescribed frequency.

It's actually the pullup voltage on the PWM line supplied by the controlled device that creates the actual presence of pulses.

The PWM D5 pumps do not have that internal pullup, so in order for them to work with some type of PWM controller, the controller itself has to have the pullup, which is outside of the Intel spec.

The Intel spec does not specify that the controller has to have a pullup, since it specifies the pullup to be in the device to be controlled.

[...] Some mobos have some level of internal pullup for the PWM line, even though the Intel spec does not require it.

It's kind of a might be a helpful thing, and can't really be a harmfully thing, so they go ahead and do it.

The [Aquaero 6], on the other hand, follows the spec, in that it has no internal pullup resistor bringing the PWM pin to 5V.

That's why it doesn't work with the PWM D5 [...]

Darlene
I here what you are saying... I have several D5s Varios, a D5 PWM, and several MCP-35x

If you buy a D5 PWM you can easily just set it to run at 1 speed all the time. If you need to change that speed you can easily do so without having to go into your case. There are times where the way you mount your D5 can make it extremely difficult to change the speed.

"Having a fluctuating pump speed can be annoying and unnecessary given that increased flow rates make very little if any improvements in temps"

That statement is a bit crazy... running a D5 at its absolute lowest speed vs an intermediate speed has a major difference in temperature on most CPU blocks and any of the GPU blocks that don't use the simple groves over the GPU design.

As for the up and down up and down being annoying... that would mean you are running pump speed off of your CPU. Which is what I do and I do not notice the up down up down but I do acknowledge that how well the impellers are balanced varies and also how well you decouple the pump from your computer chassis makes a huge difference. IF you set your computer up and you find this to be annoying then you should run the pump speed off your GPU temp or your water temp. If you set it to run at lowest speed when your GPU is within 5C of its IDLE temp and that it maxes it out by the time it is 10C over its idle temp that will work just fine.

Anyways...

I would honestly say to anyone who is worried about a D5 PWM... get a MCP-35x. PWM is the way to go, if your not going to run your D5 at 100% then a MCP-35x is a better pump.

I don't run any of my Varios at 100%... it reduces the life of the pump... heats your water up more during system idle, and it definitely audible.

As for the speed not making a difference... Well just to give an example I am going to stress test my PC right now.

Run the pump at the lowest speed then turn it up immediately.

What I want to see is NOT what it does for my water temps... (it won't make a big difference for those) but I want to see how my blocks utilize the higher flow rate.

I've done this test before on my MCP-35x and am quite certain it will be similar.

PWM pumps are the way to go...
 

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OK,

So this is what I did to test out how big of a difference it is between lowest speed and highest speed on this pump.

I unplugged all but one fan on my radiator. Ran AIDA64 stress test on CPU and VIDEO cards. AIDA only reads the 1 video card for some reason but with 2 instances of TechPowerUp GPU-Z the 2 GPUs are within 1-2 degrees all the time so we will just go off the 1 GPU.

What I did was I ran the system full out with the pump speed all the way down until the system stopped getting hotter.

Then I cranked the pump speed up and waited for it to stop going down. Then I did the opposite again and waited for it to stop going up.

The verdict is that I get 3-4C cooler with the pump maxed out on the video cards. I get 4-6C cooler on the CPU.

I want to point out that I am running DT 5noz CPU waterblock which is one of if not the best water blocks for low flow rates. So for any other water block out there you are going to see the same kind of gain in performance or more... my guess is much more in something like a Swiftech Apogee HD or any of the other higher restriction waterblocks.

As for video card... it has been my experience that they don't care too much especially the extremely low restriction ones. If you are lucky enough to own one of the higher performing ones that are designed more like CPU blocks then it will make a big difference.

All in all...

I doubt many people will run their Vario at the lowest setting...

This is why I think PWM is THE way to go. It allows you to run the pump at much lower speeds during idle which results in less noise and longer pump life. As temperature climb you can allow the pump to speed up to give your blocks that little extra performance.

If that little extra performance isn't important to you then PWM is still the way to go since it is the easiest to adjust the pump speed and you can just set the pump speed and leave it. You do not need to set it to go up and down.

IF you are not going to ever run your D5 at 100% I truly do believe the MCP-35X is a better pump.
 
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