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Discussion Starter #1
I currently am getting an OC of about 4.5ghz with my i5 4670k on air. If I were to switch to water cooling how much more of an OC do you think I'd be able to get? Trying to gauge if the money would be worth it to switch. I enjoy flight sims so every little bit counts with my aging system.
 

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It's not worth it at all

Are your current games stressing your current CPU that much?
 

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Don't bother. 4.5 on air is fine for that CPU. You wont notice any difference OCing beyond that. I've owned one of these CPUs.
 

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The cost of a basic loop that will perform better than any CLC or air cooler is going to cost about as much as a used (possibly even new) 8700k/2700X and mobo. That being said you can build the loop with soft line for your current system then use it on your next system, you'd only need the fittings and tube to go hardline. Personally I don't see much point in doing a custom loop unless the CPU and GPU are cooled and you have 4x 140mm worth of thick rad. Just 2x 280mm rads and a pump/res combo will be up into the $350 range before getting into blocks and fittings.
If you are talking about a CLC when referring to "water cooling", you'll spend a lot of money on something that might not even beat an air cooler half it's price, there are CLCs that do 1-3c better than air coolers but then you're spending and extra $70 for 1-3c which will not get you to the next 100mhz so what's the point? Plus it will die eventually. I'd go with a D15, R1 or similar high end cooler then upgrade your CPU when the time is right.
Things you can try:
Delidding
High end air cooling
Improving case flow
Overclock your ram and/or improve the timings
Overclock the cache
Overclock the GPU

I realize you may have already done all of this.
Haswell wasn't a great overclocker so you might get a used 4790k but then you aren't far off from the price of an 8600k. I have a 4690k at 4.7ghz and while I'm doing fine at 144 fps/1440p, there are plenty of games that would either max out my GPU or CPU. I don't have much interest in most poorly optimized AAA games so my CPU will likely do me just fine until I can afford a new rig or it dies lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The cost of a basic loop that will perform better than any CLC or air cooler is going to cost about as much as a used (possibly even new) 8700k/2700X and mobo. That being said you can build the loop with soft line for your current system then use it on your next system, you'd only need the fittings and tube to go hardline. Personally I don't see much point in doing a custom loop unless the CPU and GPU are cooled and you have 4x 140mm worth of thick rad. Just 2x 280mm rads and a pump/res combo will be up into the $350 range before getting into blocks and fittings.
If you are talking about a CLC when referring to "water cooling", you'll spend a lot of money on something that might not even beat an air cooler half it's price, there are CLCs that do 1-3c better than air coolers but then you're spending and extra $70 for 1-3c which will not get you to the next 100mhz so what's the point? Plus it will die eventually. I'd go with a D15, R1 or similar high end cooler then upgrade your CPU when the time is right.
Things you can try:
Delidding
High end air cooling
Improving case flow
Overclock your ram and/or improve the timings
Overclock the cache
Overclock the GPU

I realize you may have already done all of this.
Haswell wasn't a great overclocker so you might get a used 4790k but then you aren't far off from the price of an 8600k. I have a 4690k at 4.7ghz and while I'm doing fine at 144 fps/1440p, there are plenty of games that would either max out my GPU or CPU. I don't have much interest in most poorly optimized AAA games so my CPU will likely do me just fine until I can afford a new rig or it dies lol.

Good points, thanks. Trying to avoid upgrading my mobo just yet since really my only OC needed is for one game (flight sim). Maybe I'll look into the 4790k to keep getting by.
 

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You're not gonna see much if any difference between your current cpu and a 4790k. Both are haswell i7's, with the 4790k just a refresh of the original haswell. You could get lucky and get a nice chip that overclocks well but that's a roll of the die.

You're better off just sticking with what you have now or changing to a new platform.

If you're interested in water cooling then maybe you could go that route. Just don't have any expectations of your rig overclocking further because of it. Most of the water gear can be transfered to a new build, so there is that.
 

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There's a pretty big gap between a 4670k and a 4790k...I'd know because my 4690k at 4.7ghz can't even match 4770k in synthetics (r15) and most games meaning the gap between a 4690k and 4790k is larger and even larger still for a 4670k and 4790k. With a good cooler and delid you can get close to 5ghz with the 4790k making it that much better.
Sure you won't notice much difference in loads of tasks but games? Yes, especially if you're struggling to hit your goals.
Plus you can sell your current chip and buy a used 4790k for a cost of around $100.
And no, this isn't the best possible way to spend money for an improvement but it is the only option for less than $600 and since you'd be buying a used 4790k you can sell it as a used 4790k for the same price. In the long run you'd be out very little money.

You're not gonna see much if any difference between your current cpu and a 4790k. Both are haswell i7's, with the 4790k just a refresh of the original haswell. You could get lucky and get a nice chip that overclocks well but that's a roll of the die.
He has an i5 right now, jumping into a refresh chip with HT and much higher clock speed and better bin will make a difference. Since it's a refresh chip it responds to voltage much better, 4.7ghz is guaranteed if you delid since I can get that out of a lower binned i5.

And before someone pulls up a ton of benchmarks, we're looking at minimum frame rates here. More clock speed, faster cache, faster ram/tighter timings and possibly HT can all play a huge roll here.
 

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The difference in IPC is minimul. He might get a couple hundred more mhz if he's lucky. If he's not it might be less. I did misread that it was an i5 vs an i7 so there's that. For gaming I don't think it's worth the upgrade unless he just has the bug.

I went through the same thing. Had a 4690k. Thought about moving to a 4790k. In the end I got lucky on a 5820k, board, and ram. Very little difference in gaming at the same freq (4.5) and I went from 4 threads to 12. The only game I spend any real time in (the division) is a cpu demanding game. I'm also aware devils Canyon IPC is slightly better than haswell-e. Only reason I got the set was the price. $400 and it scratched the itch.

Only reason I mentioned the water cooling is the ability to carry over the bulk of the gear to the next rig. It's not really a viable option for more performance since his temps are currently in check already.
 

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The difference in IPC is minimul. He might get a couple hundred more mhz if he's lucky. If he's not it might be less. I did misread that it was an i5 vs an i7 so there's that. For gaming I don't think it's worth the upgrade unless he just has the bug.

I went through the same thing. Had a 4690k. Thought about moving to a 4790k. In the end I got lucky on a 5820k, board, and ram. Very little difference in gaming at the same freq (4.5) and I went from 4 threads to 12. The only game I spend any real time in (the division) is a cpu demanding game. I'm also aware devils Canyon IPC is slightly better than haswell-e. Only reason I got the set was the price. $400 and it scratched the itch.

Only reason I mentioned the water cooling is the ability to carry over the bulk of the gear to the next rig. It's not really a viable option for more performance since his temps are currently in check already.
You're right in the sense that there won't be a huge improvement in raw single threaded performance because they are largely the same cores. What he will get is a higher clock speed and hyperthreading and speaking from experience the extra threads can be meaningful in some games.
Haswell was also a pretty poor overclocker when compared to the refresh. As I said earlier any 4790k should be able to hit 4.7ghz if it's delidded (most could do it stock) and if you have a good cooler.
The difference between a 4790k at 4.7ghz and a 4670k at 4.5ghz may not be massive but it is enough to make a difference in your minimum framerate especially if it's an engine that can use the hyperthreads.

I agree it's not a massive improvement but if you sell your i5 for $120ish to buy a 4790k for $240ish you only spent $120 on a CPU that you can sell again for the same price or maybe a little less. There's very little money spent in the long run but there is some performance to be had and "some" extra performance is very meaningful if you hate seeing 60 fps dipping to 59 fps or something like that.
 

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The difference in IPC is minimul. He might get a couple hundred more mhz if he's lucky. If he's not it might be less. I did misread that it was an i5 vs an i7 so there's that. For gaming I don't think it's worth the upgrade unless he just has the bug.

I went through the same thing. Had a 4690k. Thought about moving to a 4790k. In the end I got lucky on a 5820k, board, and ram. Very little difference in gaming at the same freq (4.5) and I went from 4 threads to 12. The only game I spend any real time in (the division) is a cpu demanding game. I'm also aware devils Canyon IPC is slightly better than haswell-e. Only reason I got the set was the price. $400 and it scratched the itch.

Only reason I mentioned the water cooling is the ability to carry over the bulk of the gear to the next rig. It's not really a viable option for more performance since his temps are currently in check already.
You're right in the sense that there won't be a huge improvement in raw single threaded performance because they are largely the same cores. What he will get is a higher clock speed and hyperthreading and speaking from experience the extra threads can be meaningful in some games.
Haswell was also a pretty poor overclocker when compared to the refresh. As I said earlier any 4790k should be able to hit 4.7ghz if it's delidded (most could do it stock) and if you have a good cooler.
The difference between a 4790k at 4.7ghz and a 4670k at 4.5ghz may not be massive but it is enough to make a difference in your minimum framerate especially if it's an engine that can use the hyperthreads.

I agree it's not a massive improvement but if you sell your i5 for $120ish to buy a 4790k for $240ish you only spent $120 on a CPU that you can sell again for the same price or maybe a little less. There's very little money spent in the long run but there is some performance to be had and "some" extra performance is very meaningful if you hate seeing 60 fps dipping to 59 fps or something like that.
Honestly I don't know that there's any guarantee he gets 4.7. Maybe delidded. Minimum framerate will largely depend on what he plays. I keep hearing about devils Canyon hitting 5ghz pretty regularly. Again maybe delidded. I had 2 different 4690k's and neither went over 4.5. Neither were delidded either. Both cooled with an aio.

I agree that the cost might make it worth while, though if it were me, and my rig was doing everything I needed it to do then I'd probably just wait it out. The i7 absolutely should help in his flight simming. I don't have any experience with flight sim but I can't imagine clock for clock he'd see much more than 10-15%. I don't know. Maybe that's worth it.
 
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