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Let's be real here. The only reason Ray Tracing is going to work so well on the RTX 3080 is due to DLSS. Because the RX 6000 cards don't have a DLSS competitor, it won't stand a chance in Cyberpunk 2077 with RT on.
 

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Simpleton
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This thread really cleared my doubts.
 

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Iconoclast
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Cyberpunk has RTX ray tracing and they need to add ray tracing that will work with AMD.
NVIDIA themselves have stated that every RTX title that uses DirectX is DXR.

Cyberpunk uses DXR. It's not some early Vulkan implementation that required NVIDIA specific extensions, it's DX12.

There are two possible reasons I see for RT to not work on RDNA2 parts in Cyberpunk 2077 out of the gate:

1. NVIDIA doesn't want it to and has some sort of time-limited exclusivity agreement with CDPR.

2. AMD doesn't want it to, because the performance they can get without further patching/optimization is so bad that claiming support without further turning and using the same level of effects that is used on NVIDIA would make having RT now worse for them, from a marketing perspective.
 

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Performance is the bible
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Apparently, RT for AMD 6000 owners isnt among the 'everything' part. Oh well. Also, i'd say three times a charm, but this would be the fourth. 😅
Lets be fair here.
If they used AMD's barely functioning beta drivers since the game was developed way before the 6000 series was released, and say "yeah, we have RT for AMD", and then that RT barely functions, people would be mad and then another patch and another patch trying to fix things.
AMD cards were not ready for release (and are still not ready RT wise). So there is no point in delaying the game another 6 months waiting for AMD to fix it. This is not their fault.
 

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NVIDIA themselves have stated that every RTX title that uses DirectX is DXR.

Cyberpunk uses DXR. It's not some early Vulkan implementation that required NVIDIA specific extensions, it's DX12.

There are two possible reasons I see for RT to not work on RDNA2 parts in Cyberpunk 2077 out of the gate:

1. NVIDIA doesn't want it to and has some sort of time-limited exclusivity agreement with CDPR.

2. AMD doesn't want it to, because the performance they can get without further patching/optimization is so bad that claiming support without further turning and using the same level of effects that is used on NVIDIA would make having RT now worse for them, from a marketing perspective.
I would say number 2
 

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Madonion.com
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So, AMD owner's will get the half-baked version @ launch. I don't see gamers getting mad at that at all...
Yeah because there are literally armies of RX6000 owners out there to get mad about the lack of RT on their new shiny 6000's that don't even exist. CP2077 has been in development for almost a century and I've seen the RT CP2077 RT demo in like June '19, that's one and a half years ago. I wouldn't blame CDPR for AMD showing up late to the party.
 

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Just because Cyberpunk uses agnostic DXR, doesn't mean nVidia™ can't pull their old tessellation tricks again.

Remember the Crysis 2 dx11 patch were nVidia™ got Crytek to tessellate the hell out of random objects and invisible ocean surface under the map just to cripple AMD cards that weren't as good at tessellation?

nVidia™ will simply get CDPR to spam way more rays than what are optimal just to, again, cripple AMD cards.

In any case, I have a feeling you won't see ray-tracing or decently performing ray-tracing with AMD until CDPR releases their next-gen console patch for Cyberpunk next year.

I've been saying it for awhile, but it would be best to play this game in 2022 after all the DLC and patches are out. That's what I did with The Witcher 3. I played it just as Blood and Wine released.
 
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Just because Cyberpunk uses agnostic DXR, doesn't mean nVidia™ can't pull their old tessellation tricks again.

Remember the Crysis 2 dx11 patch were nVidia™ got Crytek to tessellate the hell out of random objects and invisible ocean surface under the map just to cripple AMD cards that weren't as good at tessellation?

nVidia™ will simply get CDPR to spam way more rays than what are optimal just to, again, cripple AMD cards.

In any case, I have a feeling you won't see ray-tracing or decently performing ray-tracing with AMD until CDPR releases their next-gen console patch for Cyberpunk next year.

I've been saying it for awhile, but it would be best to play this game in 2022 after all the DLC and patches are out. That's what I did with The Witcher 3. I played it just as Blood and Wine released.
I don't think most human beings have that level of patience
 

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nVidia™ will simply get CDPR to spam way more rays than what are optimal just to, again, cripple AMD cards.
could it just be that Nvidia maybe just maybe Nvidia is better than AMD at raytracing at the moment ? AMD has caught up to Nvidia when it comes to rasterization which is great but this is their first gen raytracing hardware so there is much room to improve. More good news is its on par with Nvidia's 1st gen raytracing hardware

But what i think is even more important is AMD does not have DLSS equivalent yet and thats the bigger problem. Even the 3080 without DLSS in Control at 4k only averages slightly about 30 FPS. Why would CD Projekt Red waste time right now with AMD when people most likely wouldnt even be able to get 30 FPS ?.

THey will support AMD's raytracing but they NEED AMD's DLSS equivalent to really do it
 

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More good news is its on par with Nvidia's 1st gen raytracing hardware
i'm not so sure about that. look at the 3d mark full path traced benchmark


6800XT is significantly behind the 2080Ti
 

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Performance is the bible
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Just because Cyberpunk uses agnostic DXR, doesn't mean nVidia™ can't pull their old tessellation tricks again.

Remember the Crysis 2 dx11 patch were nVidia™ got Crytek to tessellate the hell out of random objects and invisible ocean surface under the map just to cripple AMD cards that weren't as good at tessellation?

nVidia™ will simply get CDPR to spam way more rays than what are optimal just to, again, cripple AMD cards.

In any case, I have a feeling you won't see ray-tracing or decently performing ray-tracing with AMD until CDPR releases their next-gen console patch for Cyberpunk next year.

I've been saying it for awhile, but it would be best to play this game in 2022 after all the DLC and patches are out. That's what I did with The Witcher 3. I played it just as Blood and Wine released.
First off, that would also cripple nvidia if they use too many of RT calculation. Even with the 30 series RT performance, there is still a big hit. Nvidia don't need that as they have a full hardware solution that AMD don't have. Even when AMD does bring out DXR support, I expect nvidia's solution is still going to be superior for at least this generation.

And crysis 2 was not because of nvidia directly. Nvidia could do it better, and crytek tested the game on nvidia hardware. Do you really think crytek would hinder AMD intentionally just because nvidia asked? Crytek worked with AMD on other projects at the same time. It makes no sense beside conspiracy theory head bashing. Besides, nvidia didn't need them to do it. Even with the tessellation fix, nvidia were still performing better.

Besides, every game is best bought when a game of the year edition comes out with all the DLCs and patches and add-ons being available. Not everyone wants to wait though.
 

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Overclocker
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Let's be real here. The only reason Ray Tracing is going to work so well on the RTX 3080 is due to DLSS. Because the RX 6000 cards don't have a DLSS competitor, it won't stand a chance in Cyberpunk 2077 with RT on.
You know what DLSS renders much lower resolution? About 50% resolution which is equal to 25% in total pixel count. You can do the same by lowering resolution in any number of ways and using regular upscaling, sometimes this looks better than DLSS because not all games are updated to the latest DLSS that does indeed look tiny bit better for stationary images but still horrible for moving ones.

I've used both methods, upscaling, DLSS and always do my own comparisons to see what looks better in any specific game that even bothers to support some form of DLSS. As it still is, DLSS has to be added by developer and isn't a driver wide option due to it's reliance on motion vectors etc. from the game engine.

DLSS is not the savior, it's about on par with other upscaling methods. I certainly do not appreciate having to pay high end prices for mid range GPUs and having to play games at up to 50% resolution (720p for 1440p target) simply because developer is careless about performance impact not only of RT, there I can understand to a degree, but even regular non RT graphics in Control run like a potato for no reason other than badly optimized.
 

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PC Evangelist
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Let's be real here. The only reason Ray Tracing is going to work so well on the RTX 3080 is due to DLSS. Because the RX 6000 cards don't have a DLSS competitor, it won't stand a chance in Cyberpunk 2077 with RT on.
i'm not so sure about that. look at the 3d mark full path traced benchmark


6800XT is significantly behind the 2080Ti
So in pure RT it loses but Hybrit, it wins. Yes significantly behind.
 

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So in pure RT it loses but Hybrit, it wins. Yes significantly behind.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. In hybrid RT workloads (Port Royale, Control, Watch Dogs: Legion, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, etc.), the 3080 wins in almost all cases. In FULL RT or Path Traced scenarios (3DMark DirectX Ray Tracing Feature Test), the 3080 is nearly 2x faster than the 6800 XT.
 

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PC Evangelist
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. In hybrid RT workloads (Port Royale, Control, Watch Dogs: Legion, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, etc.), the 3080 wins in almost all cases. In FULL RT or Path Traced scenarios (3DMark DirectX Ray Tracing Feature Test), the 3080 is nearly 2x faster than the 6800 XT.
Check the post I quoted. He is talking about 2080 Ti vs 6800 XT.
 
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waifu for lifu
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Discussion Starter #60
How hard can it be when it's supposed to be DX12 DXR standardized. What sort of exclusive or proprietary shenanigans are they playing again.
Bingo! Atm, we can only assume its a timed exclusive just like Godfall's RT. CDPR just didn't want to answer why.
 
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