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Discussion Starter #1
<span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="color:#FF0000;"><b>Disclaimer:</b></span></span><br><br>
All the information below is based on user’s feedback in overclock.net and may not be accurate at all. I will not be responsible on any outcome that is caused by this compilation as it ONLY acts as researched information I have gathered from various sources online. The suggested tubing that is plasticizer free may end up plasticizering your watercooling loop and I will not be responsible on that outcome.<br><br>
As for today “company A” might be producing the best tubing with no problems, but as we all know most of the tubing is made by batches by mixing certain ingredients. Tomorrow the ingredients might change causing the tubing quality to drop & giving you problems. So please be aware of the date this information is published as every product that is made has its own batch on when it was made.<br><br>
Also please be aware that we suspect the main cause of plasticizer is the tubing plastic leaching caused loop temperature but we can’t/ haven’t prove this yet. The suspected cause of this problem could be totally wrong. There is also some evidence suggesting killcoil speeds up tubing clouding and there is also another claim being made by another user saying biocide speeds up the tubing clouding. As mention previously, all this could be the possible cause but its not 100% confirmed.<br><br>
I will leave the information here for you guys to make your own decision and also to educate what is “plasticizer” all about. I have no intention to promote any brand of tubing or company. My advice is to get a tubing that won’t plasticizer so that you can use it with dyes/coolant and your system will still look good. In the end of the day watercooling is mostly about the sexy aesthetic looks of it and this will also save your time in maintenance since you don’t need to keep replacing your tubing every month for it to look good. Do take note that there is cheap tubings available out there, you can also buy that and replace it every month if that is a cheaper option for you. The choice is yours, whatever floats your boat.<br><br>
Solid tubing (copper) or acrylic tubing will not have such problems, so if you don’t want to come across any plasticizer issues, you might want to choose that path.<br><br><b>PS:</b> I am sorry if there is any grammar errors or the post is difficult to understand. If anyone wishes to do some grammar editing feel free to edit it in a word file & PM me. I am busy with assignments and stuff, ain't nobody got time for grammar checking <img alt="tongue.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif">
 

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Discussion Starter #2
<span style="color:#008000;"><b>1) What is all this fuss about plasticizer with all these watercooling tubing these days?</b></span><br><b>Plasticizers (UK = plasticisers) or dispersants are additives that increase the plasticity or fluidity of a material. Phthalate-based plasticizers are used in situations where good resistance to water and oils is required. Some common phthalate plasticizers are. Bis(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate (DEHP), used in construction materials and medical devices</b><br><br><br><b><span style="color:#008000;">2) What is DEHP?</span><br>
First off the EU has been pushing to ban "DEHP" (since 2011) in medical equipment for the last few years and finally manufacturers are now taking up the proposals. The ban if it goes through will be enforced within the next few years so if manufactures don't move over they could find them facing some severe penalties if and only if the proposals go through.<br><br>
DEHP is highly lipophilic (fat soluble). When used in PVC plastic, DEHP is loosely chemically bonded to the plastic and readily leaches into blood or other lipid-containing solutions in contact with the plastic. In water cooling terms "DEHP" is what has been causing Gumming up of water cooling blocks for years and people have been wrongly blaming the coolants because of this. When "DEHP" reaches temps of around 38c and above the leaching process is exasperated in our findings and this is when problems start to occur. Also the uses of some biocides also do not help and cause the "DEHP" to leach at a faster rate.<br></b><br><span style="color:#FF0000;">Some sources of information for you:<br>
DEHP - the penis shrinking chemical -><a href="http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...a-does-not.aspx" target="_blank">http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...a-does-not.aspx</a><br>
Wikipedia - <a class="bbcode_url" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate</a><br>
DEHP Information centre - <a class="bbcode_url" href="http://www.dehp-facts.com/RA" target="_blank">http://www.dehp-facts.com/RA</a></span><br><br><br><b><span style="color:#008000;">3) Why should you buy high quality tubing then?</span><br>
There are many forms of tubing out there and "DEHP" is in a lot of them. Tubing that is "DEHP Free" is not a cheap as tubing that contains "DEHP". However would you rather spend a few pounds, euros or dollars more on something that is going to help keep your system clean and gum free? The choice is yours.</b><br><br><br><b><span style="color:#008000;">4) What nonsense, I been using cheap tubing since day 1 & had no such issues or complains whatsoever?</span><br>
The reason why some people do not have issue and some do is all down to the temperature of the liquid inside your system. The hotter your water is the more apparent the problem becomes. E,g If running a 2 x 120mm rad on a system that has a GPU and CPU block then the risk of "DEHP" leaching is higher than is running the same system on a 3 x 120mm rad with the same fan speeds and though put.<br><br>
Do take note of your room ambient temperature too as it can affect your loop temperature. Running a watercooling system in an air-con room will cause the liquid in your system to have a lower temperature compare to running without air-con. Malaysia ambient temperature during a hot sunny day can reach up to 34’C or even higher!<br><br>
“We have been doing some testing on plasticizer build up for a while trying to develop something that helps reduce the rate at which it leaches with some success. You cannot stop it entirely however you can slow it down.<br><br>
What we have found is that is you liquids are around the PH of 8.5 to 9 Plasticizer seems to leach very quickly into the system. Now un treated Di water / Ultra Pure water is around at this level were as at 6.5 to 8 which is the middle of the road its slows down the process.<br>
one thing the remember the thinner the tubing the less plasticizer is there and the less the effect will happen. The thicker the tubing the more of it is present and the more chance it will happen. (not trying to teach ppl to such eggs).”</b><br><br><b><span style="color:#008000;">5) Okay, I understand but how do I know my tubing is having plasticizer issue or not?</span><br>
That is simple, does your tubing looks cloudy than before? Drain your loop and let the tubing to dry. Remove 1 of your tubing & cut it in half. If you can see white powder stuff then that is a sign of plasticizer. You will be able to easily remove that stuff with your fingers or nails, just scrub it out.<br><br>
Please take note that plasticizer is a whole different issue than corrosion & algae, they are NOT the same! People sometimes mistaken with tubing yellowing with plasticizer, please take note that tubing yellowing is a norm for “all” tubings and it happens after a long period of time whereas plasticizer can happen overnight if your loop temps are too high!<br><br>
Plasticizer = white nasty powder that coats your tubing & your loop<br>
Corrosion = chemical reaction with two different metals damaging your components<br>
Algae = green nasty stuff, basically micro-organasim living in your loop. Use biocide to prevent this.<br>
Tubing yellowing = common issue overtime, a possible reason is because tubing absorbs water & light.<br>
Distilled water turning green = something is wrong, when you flush your radiator with vinegar, the liquid will turn to greenish colour.<br><br>
“The green corrosion is called patina, it is basically tarnish that occurs on the surface of copper/bronze and similar materials when the metal is exposed to various chemicals or acids and in turn oxidation takes place.”</b><br><br><b>Cut your tubing in half:</b><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400083/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400083" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400083/flags/LL" style="; width: 516px; height: 476px"></a><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400084/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400084" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400084/flags/LL" style="; width: 250px; height: 286px"></a><br><br><b>Scrub it out & it should look something like this:</b><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400085/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400085" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400085/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 331px"></a><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400086/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400086" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400086/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 439px"></a>
 

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<b><span style="color:#008000;">6) Okay, so what? It just clouds the tubing right so in the end of the day my system will look ugly right? That’s all?</span><br>
Well sadly no. It does not only clouds the tubing, overtime it can accumulate & gunk certain parts of your system as well, your radiator, reservoir and even worst your waterblocks. While it doesn’t necessarily affect your loop temperature, it will affect your flowrate. Just imagine this, your waterblock acts as a filter with many tiny channels, when plasticizer issue becomes serious, it will start accumulating in your waterblock. With sufficient gunk accumulate at your waterblock, this can clog your waterblock channels and cause drop in flowrate. As martin posted his findings, running your loop less than 1GPM can affect your loop cooling capabilities.<br><br>
Take note though, here we are talking about serious plasticizer issue that been leaching for quite sometime. The usual plasticizer lining issue that user encounter are usually very thin therefore chances of it gunking up your waterblocks or radiator is very slim. The common issue you will see is it will affect your tubing only with some whitish film in the inner surface of your tubing.<br><br>
Although biocide has no direct impact to plasticizer issues according to mayhems but he mention that killcoil helps tubing to cloud faster. He confirms this by himself and badomen who is primochill liquid tester. We have yet to see prove & tests regarding this issue, hopefully someone can post some testing regarding this issue because there are a lot of claims by end user that they been running their loop with killcoil since day1 in distilled water & had no such problems or whatsoever. According to mayhems, the culprit for this is most probably because the silver ions somehow gets sucked into the tubing speeding up the clouding process but they are not 100% sure about this. Its something they noticed while conducting tests.<br><br>
It’s a common misconception that dye causes gunk in your loop. This is not true according to mayhems regarding his dyes. Dye’s stains your stuff alright, that’s for sure and this can also stain that white stuff produced by plasticizer. When this accumulates in the waterblock, it looks like sediments from the dye but it’s not. It makes more sense that the dye have actually stained the “nasty white stuff” and it ended up in the waterblock thus users thinking the problem lies within the dye themselves.</b><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400087/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400087" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400087/flags/LL" style="; width: 615px; height: 410px"></a><br><br><b>Gunk clogging your waterblock = reduces flowrate:</b><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400088/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400088" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400088/flags/LL" style="; width: 552px; height: 390px"></a><br><br><b>White nasty stuff suspending in the coolant:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400089/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400089" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400089/flags/LL" style="; width: 584px; height: 391px"></a><br><br>
It even ends up in your fittings:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400090/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400090" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400090/flags/LL" style="; width: 599px; height: 318px"></a><br><br><br>
Effects of plasticizer to your loop<br>
Before:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400091/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400091" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400091/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 365px"></a><br><br><br>
After:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400092/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400092" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400092/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 416px"></a><br><br><br>
Using mayhems pastel will not solve your problem, as the problem lies within the tubing itself & not the coolant.<br>
Before:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400093/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400093" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400093/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 435px"></a><br><br><br>
After:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400094/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400094" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400094/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 454px"></a><br></b><br><br>
Notice how the coolant colour didn’t change much? This is because the inner part of the tubing is already coated with white nasty stuff but haven’t spread yet to the reservoir, running it for a LONG period of time might spread to the reservoir but it can be easily cleaned.<br><br><b><span style="color:#008000;">8) So you made it sound like DEHP tubing is bad & Non-DEHP is the way to go. Any other advantages & disadvantages that I should know of?</span><br>
Other than Non-DEHP tubing is costly, the other disadvantage of this type of tubing is their flexibility. Most of the Non-DEHP tubing that we came across doesn’t bend as well as other tubings. So this means if you have a tight loop in your system, it will be a challenge for you to get the bend without kinking the tubing. Having kinks in your tubing is something you should avoid at all cost! This is another whole issue, maybe we will talking about this next time but in order to solve this problem if you insist on use the tubing, it is to get angle rotary depending on the bend radius you need.<br><br>
Of course getting rotary will then cost you extra when you already spent a lot on quality tubing but I guess this is how the world have always been huh? There is always a give & take. Using DEHP tubing will be cheap, some of them are so cheap that you can replace it every time it starts to turn cloudy. This is another factor that you might want to consider. You will need to go through all that hassle to drain your loop, remove, cut new tubings etc but it might cost you less than getting expensive tubing.</b>
 

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Discussion Starter #4
<b><span style="color:#008000;">7) Testing</span></b><br><br><b>By mayhems</b><br>
The full details on the testing is available in the link provided below, I will just summarize the results that we have currently without going in depth on the various test conditions. I would strongly advise you to check out the link as there is interesting findings & results.<br><br><a class="bbcode_url" href="http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing">http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing</a><br><br>
Tygon R3603<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400095/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400095" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400095/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 334px"></a><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400096/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400096" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400096/flags/LL" style="; width: 567px; height: 417px"></a><br><br><br>
Primochill Primoflex PRO LRT:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400097/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400097" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400097/flags/LL" style="; width: 640px; height: 426px"></a><br><br><span style="color:#FF0000;"><b>Note: Avoid getting this tubing, go for the newer revision version instead which is renamed as primoflex advance LRT. This is due to the fact that the earlier batch in 2012 had no problems but the newer batch started showing signs of plasticizers from so many users. We are glad primochill saw the problem and took some action on it and came with the newer revision, hopefully this batch will be taken out of the shelf.</b></span><br><br>
No further updates from mayhems as these results will be affecting companies from more progress than doing any good:<br><span style="color:#0000FF;">“We have had to take the information private due to the controversy surrounding this subject. The information we have gathered from our testing will be passed onto the people who need to know. We would rather not create a fuss over something like this in a public form. Sorry”.</span><br><br><br>
It’s understandable because if you look at the other point of view, these tubing’s are produced by batches. Today’s ingredients could be different from tomorrows, let’s say company A decided to stop using DEHP in their tubing today. This could solve the plasticizer issue for their tubing but because of the test data published by mayhems, everyone might have avoided buying their tubing. In the end we wouldn’t know if the company did solved their issue or improved it since nobody wants to buy it anymore. Although mayhems stopped publishing test results, he did advise us to get either these 3 tubing as of 16 march 2013. Primochill Primoflex Advance LRT, Durelene or Tygon plasticizer free (Tygon E-1000).<br><br>
I also personally asked him how does Clear flex 60, XSPC premium, thermochill & Masterkleer performs as I could only find this type of tubing in my country (Malaysia) and this is the reply I got:<br><span style="color:#0000FF;">“Clear Flex is cheap and does the trick. However it does cloud quickly and does release plasticizer over time. However it’s "cheap". Hence you have no issue replacing yearly.<br>
Thermochill / XSPC (they are both the same company) .. i had there tubing go crazy on me (lots of plastersizer).<br>
Masterklear have six different types of tubing. I gave trying to figure out which ones which with them. Some works some doest trying to know which is the best is a head ace.”<br><br>
“We haven't tested the new primochill however we are testing the tygon E1000 and Durelene. Both have passed our testing with flying colors however there is still the issue of yellowing over time. This seems to be the norm with "all" tubing though.<br>
Durelene is stiffer tubing and E1000 is much softer.<br>
As for testing we've taken all our results privet and passed the info onto relevant companies. The reason for this is so that they can fix there issues instead of users just jumping ship and us causing a mass panic. This would be unfair on all manufacturers. I feel we as a company need to act in this responsible manner.”</span><br><br><span style="color:#FF0000;"><b>“UPDATE : PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Working, Tygon E1000 Working. "DEHP" free tubing is recommended for use with Mayhems pastel coolants.”</b></span><br><br>
That’s all the information that I could find from mayhems, so let’s carry on with testing done by other users.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
<span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>Feedback from Martin</b></span><br><br>
You guys have more experience with tubing than I have, but I can share the tubing I've used and give you a quick 2c clouding report:<br><br>
Tygon 3603 - Have had clouding problems, particularly when used with dyes/glycols. Like the durometer, but hated the clouding, typically wanted to replace it after 3 months of use.<br><br>
Duralene (Saint Gobain) from SWC - Not quite as flexible as the Tygon 3603, but good enough, very low cost and I've run this in water systems for very long periods of time without any clouding issues. This stuff get's my vote for best bang for the buck tubing that doesn't cloud much.<br><br>
Feser Tube UV colored - I've used blue and green in this in the larger 1/2" x 3/4" size also for extended periods of time in water/PT nuke systems for 2 years without any problems at all. The smaller thinner stuff didn't have clouding issues, but it did get rather stiff compared to the larger size stuff that remained good even after years of use. Only issue I've had is the dye from one tube can transfer onto other tubes when it's very fresh, but it's good stuff...really like it other than the cost.<br><br>
Home Depot PVC - Total crap, clouds up almost instantly and way too stiff to use, it can get you by in a pinch when you are out of tubing, but this stuff is not at all fun to use.<br><br>
XSPC UV colored tube - I've used a little bit of this and also didn't have any clouding problems, but it was a bit stiff in durometer for my liking.<br><br>
That's all I've used and while I have had clouding issues, I've never seen anything to the extent in these threads where a solid white film has formed. Mine has always been more of a translucent clouding issue and seem to be associated with using coolants other than distilled water/PTnuke type solutions. I'm no chemist, but there's all sorts of possibilities between the tubing and many of the coolants out there considering the number of chemicals present and mixed. Never tried Primochill tubing although I've heard good things about it's flexibility.<br><br>
Hope that helps..<br>
Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #6
<span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>Feedback from WW</b></span><br><br>
Just a thought. As an engineer who has worked in the plastics business I can tell you that most plastic tubing contains plasticizer of varing amounts and properties depending on the desired end use. There are several plastics on the market which don't use plasticizers but I don't know how suitable they would be for water cooling. One of these, which is made in a food grade is called PEBAX. It is already used in toothbrushes and other applications needing flexibility. It might be worth seeing if it is extruded into tubing.<br><br>
Plasticizers is nothing special...it's just a solvent that makes the polymer more flexible and easy to process. What may be happening is the materials may be of lower quality causing the plasticizer to volatilize prematurely leaving the hose less flexible and more prone to cracking. UV radiation will also degrade polymers by attacking the chemical bonds which provide stiffness.<br><br>
While not universally true I have noticed some products sourced from mainland China are not of the same quality as those produced elsewhere. Quality control tends to be spotty in Chinese industry with lower grade materials sometimes being substituted.<br><br>
WW
 

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<span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>Tests & findings done by skyn3t<br></b></span><br>
Hello Guys here is my Feedback to "Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery". After a lot reading, pictures and seeing how people are suffering about Plasticizer and Cloud white film inside the tubing, I have put together all my stuff that I have in hands for you guys.<br><br>
Tygon R-3603 Before any water in the loop day 1, Tygon R-3603 its very clear tubing but compared with Durelene Tygon is kind off yellowish color:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400098/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400098" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400098/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 262px"></a><br><br><br>
Tygon R-3603 after 4 Months in the loop with Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye. About 3 weeks ago I had drained my loop, changed the Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye and with Pure Distilled Water. As you can see the white film inside the tubing is pure bad:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400099/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400099" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400099/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 450px"></a><br><br><br>
At the top - Tygon R-3603 New Tubing added on 6/13/2012. At the bottom - Tygon R-3603 after 4 months with Distilled water and Mayhems Red Dye:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400100/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400100" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400100/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 329px"></a><br><br><br><br>
Koolance Res Crystal Clear since Day 1. Still looks clear and shiny even after the clouded tubing with Distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye after 4 months nothing found in my blocks, rad and res:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400101/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400101" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400101/flags/LL" style="; width: 525px; height: 473px"></a><br><br><br><br>
Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain First bath with Distilled warm water to clean the dust inside and ready to receive the final run. Compared with Tygon R-3603 the flexibility is not that much in real world.In my first experience with Durelene was very good, even its natural clear color is very bright compared with Tygon R-3603, Tygon R 3603 and it is kind of yellowish color.<br><br>
It does looks sharp:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400102/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400102" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400102/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 383px"></a><br><br>
Here is the package i received today in the mail a Big Box with 27" of Durelene Clear tubing I already had cut all the tubing for my RiG i do have less tubing inside this box. It does look very clear no yellowish like Tygon R-3603:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400103/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400103" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400103/flags/LL" style="; width: 592px; height: 411px"></a><br><br><br><br>
Here is the comparison chart tubing. Tubing in order<br>
1 - Durelene<br>
2 - Tygon R-3603 ( Virgin )<br>
3 - Tygon R-3603 after 4 months with Distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400104/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400104" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400104/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 422px"></a><br><br><br>
Mayhems Red Dye - won't crystalize inside the Loop once is mixed it won't separate from water<br>
I had a half gallon distilled water with Mayhems Red Dye seal for 4 months sit in the same shelf collection dust. The color never faded no residues in the bottom found. Half gallon was cut in half to make sure it was clear and no cloud stuff inside i had no kill coil inside the gallon and it was Red rich clean distilled water.<br><br><br>
Black Hawk Down Running New Clear Durelene Tubing Distilled water + kill coil:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400105/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400105" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400105/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 363px"></a><br><br><br>
By tomorrow 6/15/2012 i will have 3 container One with Tap Water, Pure Distilled Water and Contaminated water distilled water from my old loop with tree peace's of tubing inside on each container + kill coil. I like to see how long they can cloud and film. each day in the morning i will going to shake each container I'm going to leave it by my window this way it can warm a bit in simulation of warm water in the loop. i just need to find 3 peace of nickel plate to drop inside of each container.<br><br>
1- container Tap water - Contaminated Tygon tubing , clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing<br>
2 - container Distilled Water - clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye<br>
3 - container Distilled Water - clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing + kill coil only.<br><br><br><br><b>Plasticizer Problems Update.</b><br><br>
As you guys know I'm running Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain + Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coilfor 3 weeks and 6 days ( 27 Days ) and it looks the same since Day One. not signs of Plasticize or Cloud including the Reservoir i have been running my 3570K 4.5Mhz and my GTX 670 FTW @ 1200MHz 24/7. Heat is not the issue as far as i know in my recent test's. I know i had doe some Plasticizer testing with Tygon R-3603 and Durelene in Glass Container but some how all those test when very different in what I have now both my System are running Durelene Tubing the Plasticizer Test Bench had MayHems Red Dye and still the same no Plasticizer or Cloud whatsoever. I'm very happy with my result test's.<br><br>
Just to you guys know this time i have a more high quality photos compared with my last result so the pictures is much more clear look and don't pay attention in some light reflection in tubes it make it looks Blue o even a Bit Cloud But it's NOT. When water inside the tubing and some bends it's Magnify the letter's, you guys know what I'm talk about.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400107/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400107" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400107/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 354px"></a><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400108/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400108" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400108/flags/LL" style="; width: 600px; height: 331px"></a><br><br><br><br>
Here is the tubing since ???? and before removed and cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400109/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400109" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400109/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 375px"></a><br><br><br>
Left tubing Durelene with plasticizer raze inside<br>
Right New Durelene tubing<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400110/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400110" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400110/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 375px"></a><br><br><br><br>
New tubing - Used tubing after had been cleaned with cotton rag and wood stick , Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400111/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400111" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400111/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 375px"></a><br><br>
Durelene with Distilled water. Left to right<br><br>
New tubing<br>
New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.<br>
Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400112/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400112" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400112/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 375px"></a><br><br><br><br>
same order, but how those tubing looks better ?<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400114/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400114" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400114/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 375px"></a><br><br><br>
but here you can see it better but i changed the order left to right<br><br>
Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze<br>
New tubing<br>
New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400115/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400115" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400115/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 470px"></a><br><br><br>
Over here you can see the plasticizer/haze much better but when its wet you almost cannot see it only if you put a new or a cleaned tubing side by side. Now is time to know how long Durelene toke to get like this. My tubing was changed on 7/31/12 Post #1154 <a class="bbcode_url" href="http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1150#post_17827918">http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plastic...0#post_17827918</a><br>
running Distilled Water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White.<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400116/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400116" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400116/flags/LL" style="; width: 480px; height: 640px"></a><br><br><br><br>
PS : keep in mind my rig was running Distilled water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White, Durelene has prove the durability. even running under premix and die, the plasticizer/haze is not noticeable whem the tubing is wet. like I said above only side by side with new tubing.<br><br>
Now is BHD wil only run Distilled water with Mayhems Biocide. for the next final test in very heave load.<br><br>
Thanks for all you guys support and let's keep this thread clean objective with this problems
 

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Discussion Starter #8
<span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>Tests done by systemlord</b></span><br><br>
I received my 2 foot long Primochill Advanced LRT Tubing (clear) today, I will leave a piece under the hot tap water all night plus soak another piece is distilled water indefinitely. I'll report by end of day today, let the abuse begin.<br><br>
Updated<br>
Here are pictures of my Primochill's new Advanced LRT, the piece on the left was put in a coffie cup while under HOT tap water for 12 hours, can you tell which of the two clear pieces spent 12 hours in distilled water? I think it's safe to say that this new tubing is more resilient than any tubing before it if my memory serves correct, 12 hours under scalding hot tap water!<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400117/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400117" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400117/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 344px"></a><br><br>
Something unexpected has happened, I just looked at the piece of tubing I put through hell has for some reason lost a bit of the clouding it had earlier today! Could it be because the tubing absorbed the hot water and is now dryer now? I'm sold on this tubing, buying red as soon as possible!<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400118/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400118" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400118/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 375px"></a>
 

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Discussion Starter #9
<span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>Tests done by crazymofo:</b></span><br><br>
Before anybody say anything, I would like to point this out. The testing method that I am using is highly inaccurate! I cannot control the variables that affects the testing procedure nor can I control the water temperatures. Unless you are kind enough to donate/borrow me some proper equipment, thermometer, heater to keep the temps at a constant temps I wont be able to do a proper test.<br><br>
Now thats been said, I still try my best to give a non bias test with all the tubings. Also please take note that whatever results is shown in my test may not be the same in real life! Therefore please do not take the tests for granted.<br><br>
Testing Methods:<br><br>
- Used a coffee flask because it keeps heat very well therefore reduces the amount of time is needed to cool down the temps.<br>
- I only have that thermometer and it can measure up to 44'C only.<br>
- Because I am limited to the temps range, I decided to do two temperature test only. First test is at above 90'C & second test is at 44'C.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400119/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400119" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400119/flags/LL" style="; width: 373px; height: 497px"></a><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400120/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400120" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400120/flags/LL" style="; width: 373px; height: 497px"></a><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400121/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400121" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400121/flags/LL" style="; width: 373px; height: 497px"></a><br><br>
=======================================================================================================<br><br><span style="color:#0000FF;"><b>Durelene Tubing</b></span><br><br><span style="color:#FF0000;"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Temps estimate above 90'C & tubing left in water for 12hours:</span></span><br><br>
Top: Tubing after 12hours in 90'C water<br>
Bottom: Brand new tubing<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400122/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400122" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400122/flags/LL" style="; width: 373px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*As you can see tubing changed, some hazing is going on. At first I thought maybe its normal since temps was way to high above 90'C, most WC loop barely hits 80'C plus.<br><br>
Left: Tubing after 12hours in 90'C water<br>
Right: Brand new tubing<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400123/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400123" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400123/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*This test is just to show that hazing is visible even if the tubing is filled with water.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400124/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400124" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400124/flags/LL" style="; width: 373px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*Its hard to see the difference in white background therefore here is some pics on black background<br><br><br><span style="color:#FF0000;"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Temps estimate around 44'C & tubing left in water for 12hours:</span></span><br><br>
Left: Tubing exposed to 90'C<br>
Middle: Brand new<br>
Right: Tubing @ 44'C for 12hours<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400125/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400125" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400125/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*So I thought maybe tubing goes crazy at such high temps, maybe it might perform well under normal temps. After testing it @ 44'C, results seems the same. Although hazing is less compare to the first test, its still visible. The difference between both is very little to notice.<br><br><br><span style="color:#FF0000;"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Temps @ 44'C + 2drops mayhems biocide & tubing was left in distilled for 12hours:</span></span><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400126/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400126" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400126/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*Reason for biocide is to prove that the PH is not affecting the hazing problem. Plus adding biocide I believe will neutralizer the water PH, thus eliminating 1 of the possible variable.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400127/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400127" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400127/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
* Just a PH test on the previous test water without the biocide. Seems like my tap water was around PH6 :lol:<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400128/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400128" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400128/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*Tubing when its wet, yes I know when its wet the hazing seems a little less compared to dry but its still visible. Funny thing is I didn't notice this difference in the first test. Perhaps coz the temps were too high that made the tubing hazed badly? I dont know, need proper equipment & time to test why this is happening lol.<br><br><br><br><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400129/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400129" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400129/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*When its dried, similar results with the 2nd test.<br><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400130/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400130" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400130/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*This is two show the clarity of the tubing, even though hazing is apparent...we can still see through it. Not sure if this can affect the coolant colour or not though...<br><br>
***************************************************************************************************************<br><br>
And now the suprising part!!<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400131/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400131" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400131/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*left is the tubing I finished doing test on the water PH, the longer tubing is brand new. The two other tubing is actually tubing from previous test that I did 2days earlier. As you can see the tubing becomes clear like new once again without any cleaning or anything! I just left it on my table and suddenly when I checked it its like brand new. I just left it in my room table under a fan...<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400132/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400132" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400132/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*I have two theory for this I think...<br><br>
1) The tubing absorbed water and turned milky as it retains water in the tubing plastic material.<br>
2) The tubing hazes at warm temps but becomes clear back when its cooled down.<br><br>
Theory #1 might be possible, since I submerge the whole tubing in water therefore outer layer & inner layer is in contact with water. Maybe the outer layer wasn't designed to be waterproof therefore water gets absorbed in the tiny pigments on the tubing outer layer? This would explain why some users used it in their real WC rig and had no problems with it (i.e clear as new), but I check closely seems like the whole tubing material changes colour...no specific inner/outer lining that hazes. I also tried scrubbing it with few sharp tools and there wasn't any effect. If it was plasticizer I could at least remove some powder substance by scrubbing but this is not the case.<br><br>
Theory #2: Another possible reason is the tubing temps, therefore I would like to do another test on the tubing. I will let it haze in warm water and once its done I will add into cold water cooling down the tubing. If there is any difference then temps could be the reason.<br><br>
I will also mix it in my WC loop to see how it performs under real situation.<br><br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400133/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400133" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400133/flags/LL" style="; width: 373px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*retesting the tubing that turned from cloudy to clear in high temps water. Turned cloudy as expected.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400134/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400134" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400134/flags/LL" style="; width: 373px; height: 497px"></a><br>
*Decided to throw in a cup of ice water to cool the tubing down. Perhaps high temps caused the tubing to haze?<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400135/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400135" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400135/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
* Apparently not :lol:<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400136/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400136" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400136/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
* Just to show you that its the tubing material that hazes and no thin lining of plasticizer forming inside the tubing.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400137/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1400137" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1400137/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br>
* Clear vs hazed<br><br><br>
Conclusion: Durelene did not plasticizer in my test. It hazes though, I would not consider hazing to be the same as plasticizer because to my understanding plasticizer = creamy cheese being formed in the tubing walls. I am not so sure myself either, I guess I will need to do more test on other tubing that is famous for plasticizer to be certain on identifying plasticizer & hazing.<br><br>
I cannot gurantee durelene will not plasticizer, but based on my findings it did not. Please take note that I did the test for 12hours only therefore running it longer in your loop might give different result. Also please take note that although I report hazing in my tests, I still hear very good feedback regarding this tubing considering the price for it is very cheap. Many people that used it in their rig claim their tubing is still clear like new after installing a month or so. I will definitely add a piece of durelene tubing in my rig once its completed & will update this post on how it performed in real life setup.<br><br>
This is all for now, stay tuned for tests on primoflex advance lrt & masterkleer <img alt="biggrin.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif">
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Test on primochill primoflex advance lrt coming soon! <img alt="tongue.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif"><br><br><br>
update: Also I plan to redo my durelene testing in a glass mug again because when testing on primochill tubing I found some funny results. I just need to clarify if the coffee flask inner metal material is causing any impact to the tests or not...
 

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<span style="color:#008000;"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>Conclusion</b></span></span><br><br>
So I went through the whole thread and came to a conclusion and I have also summarized most of the useful info. There are few info that I decided to leave out due to the insufficient details of testing done or some evidence suggesting that particular user is the only person who is not suffering from plasticizer whereas almost all the others are reporting otherwise.<br><br>
· Thread started with primoflex lrt pro having serious plasticizer issue, leaching right after 3days of use. Turning the tubing to cheesy white colour. Plasticizer issue/tubing clouding was a common problem back then with all the other tubings but it happens overtime like after few months of usage, but primochill lrt pro was pretty serious in just few days.<br>
· A lot of feedback from other users reporting the same problem, primochill denies the problem lies within their tubing.<br>
· Users started looking for alternative tubing brands that wouldn’t cloud the tubing, some users including martin suggested durelene.<br>
· Few other brands were introduced, masterkleer, clearflex, xspc & tygon but there were feedback from others that they used it in the past & it clouds as well. No proper tests/evidence was provided though to back the statement up.<br>
· More users gave good feedback on durelene as they used it in the past & it is cheap, skyn3t started doing tests on it.<br>
· We found that durelene will have a slight haze/cloud in its tubing when it’s in the loop(barely noticeable) but once removed and dried the difference can be seen compared to new. When it’s wet, the cloud is hard to see and many other users started using durelene tubing. Received many good feedback with slight hazing to the tubing but its not a deal breaker considering the price is cheap.<br>
· More reports from other users recommending durelene as it performs well without any hazing after few weeks of using.<br>
· Primochill is still working on their tubing problems, they introduced sys scrubber which is some kind of chemical to add in your loop to remove the plasticizer from the tubing. Some says it worked & some said the plasticizer lining is too thick therefore the scrubber did not work properly.<br>
· Tygon E-1000 was recommended as it’s the only “plasticizer free” tubing available in the market but the price for it is too expensive.<br>
· Primochill primoflex advance lrt was introduced in November which was made specifically for watercooling users and were told it have addressed all the issue the previous tubing had. Some primoflex pro lrt users where sent the new tubing as a replacement. Check performancepc website, they stated the tubing to be "DEHP Free"<br>
· Many users started using it & reported only good things about it, so far I haven’t heard any bad feedback about it regarding plasticizer issues. Many reputable forumers including mayhems himself started recommending this tubing to others.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
<span style="color:#FF0000;"><b>Update on durelene tubing testing.</b></span><br><br><br>
So during my tests the tubing keep hazing & turning back to clear once I removed it from the water & let it dry for a day. I thought maybe the flask I was using is causing the problem, maybe the steel metal in the flask was reacting (highly unlikely but its possible). So I decided to run the test again to confirm this theory since there is no harm right? More testing is always a good thing :hehe:<br><br><br>
So I placed two clear durelene tubing in two glasses with a drop of mayhems biocide. Reason for biocide is just to keep a controlled environment with netural ph although I already prove that the water ph is not causing this hazing to occur. I got 10ml anyways so no harm in adding 1 drop in each glass. Left glass water temps are 44'C & right is over 90'C plus. I cover it with a lid to slow down the water from getting cold fast. Sadly in less than 3hours both glass reaches around 30 plus degrees. I cant afford to keep topping up hot water in the glass (not so free la) neither do I have heater to keep it at constant temps so this will do haha...<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414543/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1414543" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414543/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br><br><br>
Left tubing is from the 44'C glass & middle is from the 90'C glass. Right tubing is brand new. As you can see from the results, the left tubing is just as clear as new & this is probably because the water cool too fast (I am guessing in 1hour the temps reached around 30'C already) so the effect where hazing occurs for that tubing is reduced. The tubing from the 90'C glass has some slight hazing to it as shown in the picture.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414544/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1414544" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414544/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br><br>
Here a close up comparision:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414545/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1414545" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414545/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br><br><br>
Now that I have proved my point that the flask I used was not the cause of hazing, I decided to test another theory that I have in mind. That is "could it be the tubing is absorbing water & turning cloudy because of that? Could it be at higher temps, the tubing gets softer thus allowing a better absorption of water in the material?"<br><br>
I let both tubing that I used previously to dry for a day. Both turned back clear & then I put 1 clear piece in a glass of water (at room temp, at night got use aircon :lol:) for more than 48hours. This is the result:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414546/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1414546" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414546/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br><br>
I did check the tubing at certain period of time when it was in water, I can see there was slight hazing occurring at a very slow speed. Comparing it in a dark background:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414547/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="1414547" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1414547/flags/LL" style="; width: 663px; height: 497px"></a><br><br><br><br>
So lets cancel out the previous theories I made on the possible cause of hazing:<br><span style="text-decoration:line-through;">PH lower than 7 is causing hazing</span><br><span style="text-decoration:line-through;">Flask metal is reacting with tubing</span><br><span style="text-decoration:line-through;">Tubing hazes when its heated up</span> <--Not entirely true (I will explain why)...<br><br>
Before I explain to you, I would just like to clarify that this hazing occurrence (or some might call it clouding? ) is different from plasticizer. Reason being is if plasticizer, when the tubing dries you can scrub off white powder from it but in my tests there wasn't any. When it dries it doesn't leave anything behind. I can't confirm this tubing doesn't plasticizer though, because who knows what other surprising findings we can find after running it for a very long time in warm water (I do not have the resources to do this or the time) so I do not want people to say later "you said this wont plasticizer, you lied to me!". I will definitely add a small piece of durelene to my loop once its done & will update a month or so if I remember in this thread.<br><br><br>
Now based on my findings I believe the tubing hazes when it absorbs water. I proved this in the test where I left the tubing in room temp water for 48hours with biocide. Higher temps are just helping to speed up the hazing process, what I believe is happening is at higher temps the tubing gets soft and when this happens it can easily absorb water into the tubing material. This is probably why we can see the tubing hazes badly at 90'C and less at 44'C. But temps are not the main cause of it because in the previous test, when the tubing was warm I placed it in a cold iced water but there was no changes to it even after cooling it down. This is probably because it still contain water in the tubing material.<br><br>
This is also probably why when people installed durelene in their WC rig it still remains clear because the inner part of tubing is the only material that is having contact with water so the absorbing rate is probably reduced. On top of that the outer part of tubing is in contact with air so maybe even if the tubing absorbed water it can evaporate through the outer layer. On top of that most cases inside is warm so maybe it has a higher rate of evaporation thus the tubing keep remaining clear in people builds. <-- This is just an assumption or my own theory...nothing proven though haha.<br><br>
If anyone else have a better understanding or explanation on what the heck is going on then feel free to let us know because I ain't a chemical engineer. If you guys have other scenario/variables that you want me to test let me know & I will try to test it. I can't think of anything else...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Sharing my friend experience on primochill tubing so far it seems good....<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>unequalteck,Apr 30 2013, 02:30 PM</strong> <br><img alt="8694308421_4c42cb94db_b.jpg" class="bbcode_img" src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8537/8694308421_4c42cb94db_b.jpg"><br><br><img alt="8695427942_0ed1bd67e3_b.jpg" class="bbcode_img" src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8536/8695427942_0ed1bd67e3_b.jpg"><br><br>
XSPC stock tubing vs Primochill Advance LRT<br>
both after 4 weeks usage
<div class="bbcode_right" style="text-align:right;">[snapback]60030007[/snapback]</div>
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Nice read <img alt="thumb.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif">
 

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Good work-this will help many people out there that find the whole plasticizer issue to difficult to delve into, gain a basic idea of what all the 'fuss' is about.<br><br>
I applaud your efforts.<br><br>
The full solution is out there somewhere, and when people take the time out to contribute in this manner, it makes the road to a viable solution, that much easier.<br><br>
IMO the real problem that has prevented us from finding as full solution is very simple: there are far too many variables involved with a wc rig<br><br>
-when there is COMPLETE uniformity (which defeats the artistic aspect of wc), then and only then will the problem be fully dealt with.<br><br>
+1 rep for a good body of work <img alt="thumb.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif">
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1380775/what-is-plasticizer/10#post_19860362" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kkorky</strong> <a href="/t/1380775/what-is-plasticizer/10#post_19860362"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Good work-this will help many people out there that find the whole plasticizer issue to difficult to delve into, gain a basic idea of what all the 'fuss' is about.<br><br>
I applaud your efforts.<br><br>
The full solution is out there somewhere, and when people take the time out to contribute in this manner, it makes the road to a viable solution, that much easier.<br><br>
IMO the real problem that has prevented us from finding as full solution is very simple: there are far too many variables involved with a wc rig<br><br>
-when there is COMPLETE uniformity (which defeats the artistic aspect of wc), then and only then will the problem be fully dealt with.<br><br>
+1 rep for a good body of work <img alt="thumb.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif"></div>
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No problem mate, I created this thread because I was also having a hard time trying to understand what the whole plasticizer fuss was all about and had to go through the thread with lots of brands bashing here & there. I would like to stress out the info I posted is not intended to attack any brands out there or promote. Its purely info gathered from the WC community and some test that I decided to do (not prefect, but its the best that I can do with limited materials).<br><br>
Fully agree with you, there is just too much variables being involved which is why we see some facing problems with certain tubing while others are ok with it. Now that i finished tested all the possible variables that I can think off on durelene, I am testing on primochill adv lrt. So far I can see similar results but will definitely update this thread again once I have the time, next will perform some tests on masterkleer tubing if my friend decided to send me some samples. The watercooling community in my country said xspc premium tubing is pretty good as well, 2months plus & still remains clear. Might test on this as well but just sharing the info. Do take note the stock xspc tubing is different from xspc premium tubing according to my local reseller & we all know the stock tubing is crap but I can't say the same thing on the premium tubing without tests <img alt="smile.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
Also I may not be an expert on this plasticizer issue so do correct me if I am wrong at any aspect.. <img alt="tongue.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif">
 

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I was really impressed by your testing methods, and this report. Rep+<img alt="thumb.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif"><br>
Looking forward to seeing more results, but only when you have time!<br><br>
And, a shameless plug for your Project BalROG build log, which I just checked out.<br>
That is one fine build!
 
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