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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, i changed 5 monitor in 3 months, none was good. Question is simple, what you will recommend me for gaming/movies and still haves good colors, and NO WHITE problems, uniformity, or lag, or ghosting. Please tell me some names...

I had 2 U2312HM - crap
1 Samsung TN S24B350H - crap in colors, fast in games
Another U2312HM - crap in everything
BenQ GW2450HM - good white uniformity, good colors, alot of ghosting

What should i buy now, it's very annoying.
 

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edit: this post was written in response to the original OP, which was structured differently and mentioned the U2312HM more, and was asking about the Asus VS239HR.

It's probably similar to the U2312HM or worse, possibly better.

They use pretty much the same eIPS panels from LG, so it's all about how the response time compensattion (RTC, overdrive) is applied.

Many mid-to-higher end Asus models have adjustable "Trace Free" control: 0, 20, 40, 60, 80, or 100, which sets the amount of RTC. A higher setting, and you get faster response at the expense of overshoot (reverse ghosting). Too slow and the response time is just slower. The Ultrasharp has a bit of noticeable overshoot but not as bad as some other monitors, by a long shot.

In some other countries, a VS239H-P version is sold that has the Trace Free control available, and it is advertised as 5ms. As you've noticed, standard VS239H is advertised as 14ms (though you say 12ms?); that does not have the control. VS239HR is advertised as 5ms, and it does not have the control. That means it probably has some fixed Trace Free setting that could be high? Is it set to the equivalent of 100? I hope not. Ideally, if it is set to something reasonable, there could be similar response times to the U2312HM but maybe a little less overshoot. But maybe the setting is different than that.

5ms is optimistic even allowing for lots of overshoot, but 8ms on the Ultrasharp is optimistic as well. All these monitors have minimal processing features and minimal delays, so very little input lag It's just about the pixel responsiveness (and other picture quality issues like panel uniformity, etc.).

Anyway, you're unlikely to get something significantly different or very significantly better in quality in any respect than the Ultrasharp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok, please if there is some guru here on IPS panels, please tell me what can you tell about these LG monitors ?

LG IPS234V-PN 23 inch 5ms black
LG 23EA63V-P 23 inch 5ms black
LG IPS231P 23 inch 5ms black
LG D2343P 23 inch 5ms GTG black

I said i just broke my U2312HM because i didn't stand anymore to see what awful white uniformity on the panel, and i put the hammer in it, so nervous right now, because is the third U2312HM that i change and i have the same stupid white uniformity, well, enough about that, what can you tell me about those LG IPS ? Right now i need to put money from my pocket to buy another one, i think i will be a homeless guy if i will continue to put money in monitors, so sick about not having a good monitor myself, why anyone has and i don't....

Don't get me wrong that U2312HM was great in terms of colors, ghosting, lag, but what white uniformity, showing basically half of screen a yellow white, and the other half pure white, caused me to be a devil today...

Basically i tested the VA panel, is has alot of ghosting in games, very much. And if i will buy another TN the colors will shift when my eyes will look on a part of the screen, basically i really need to have a IPS panel, because i didn't saw ghosting or lag, only that DELL nasty white problem, so i need to try another one, something from the mothers of IPS panels, LG...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The U2312HM had 8ms GTG, and his real response time is 12ms ?
 

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Try some Dell monitors that arent LED or "HM" models. Like the Dell U2410, U2711, U3011. I own the U2410 and the U3011 - no problems with white, black or anything. If you don't like them, I'm afraid the technology you are looking for don't exist yet..
thumb.gif


U2410
http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1259151406

U3011
http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1288168155

I also agree with mikeaj on this: "you're unlikely to get something significantly different or very significantly better in quality in any respect than the Ultrasharp."
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I dont want quality only to get rid of that white uniformity problem.
 

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U2410, U2413, U2713H, U3011, etc. are wide-gamut, as in wider than sRGB. Not really useful for most consumers. Actually, on a lot of material, unless you calibrate down to sRGB, stuff is just going to look oversaturated. The extra cost is mostly in supporting the wide gamut, maybe calibration and possibly tighter quality control? Similar story for options other than Dell that are wide gamut. I wouldn't look there just because they're more expensive.

Some of the own LG-branded eIPS monitors like those listed have slow response times. Some have too much overdrive. I don't think you should really suspect that uniformity on average would be better than on an Asus or Dell or whatever else using their panels (especially considering the prices), but maybe that's wrong.

If you think U2312HM had good responsiveness, then some amount of excess overdrive seems to be okay for your purposes, and you don't need anything as fast as a TN. Actual response time depends on which color shift you're measuring, and how close to the final value you count as complete, and... even if you had a number, it wouldn't be useful unless you could get a fair comparison with something else. And even then, that may ignore any overshoot.

If you don't want a CRT, then you could try an Eizo Foris FS2333. That's quite a bit more expensive though. Either that, or keep cycling U2312HM or similar until you get something with better uniformity.

EDIT: Just checking, but with the BenQ GW2450HM, you did switch "AMA" to Premium, right?
 

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Wide Gamut CCFL IPS were actually the first to become infamous for having tinting issues, especially the U2410, U2711 and HP LP2475W. Stay away from wide gamut CCFL IPS and low end IPS to avoid the worst kinds of tinting.

Manufacturer response times don't mean anything, go look at some of PRAD.de, svete hardware and extrahardware cz reviews, they measure displays pixel response times with an oscilloscope.
 

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I went through the process of finding a good monitor just a few weeks ago.

IPS panels provide good colors. But the cheap E-IPS panels used in 24 inch monitors suffer from the problems you mentioned. Common problems are backlight bleeding, uniformity issues and white issues (anti-glare coating). 27/30 inch IPS monitors use better panels, but they suffer from more input lag and a higher pixel response time. People usually recommend a Dell U2713HM. It's a good choice, if you can deal with 15-20 ms of input lag and 5-10 ms of pixel response time. That's a delay of 1-2 frames in a game running at 60 frames per second.

Have you tried a monitor with a good TN panel such as the BenQ XL2420T yet? The ASUS VG278HE looks like a solid choice too, although a bit expensive.
 

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You put a hammer in your $250 monitor because the white varied slightly from one side to the other? Wow. That's pure lunacy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Played with AMA, the more overdrive i put the more ghosting was, i was able to saw the mouse pointer's shadow while i moved. That VA panel was soooo slow.

Yes i smashed it because is a crap DELL monitor, a very crap DELL monitor. IF you buy 3 U2312HM with different revisions in hoping to resolve the white uniformity issue, or hoping to grab a better panel, trust me you will do the same, crap monitors needs to die, no matter what. I tested some monitors and NO ONE had that white uniformity, and i can say i tested some very cheap IPS monitors and very cheap TN's, and no one had that one, only the precious U2312HM, three times in a row. To be clear the white problem U2312HM had was not a minor problem, something you notice only if you stay on a white background and keep looking on the screen to compare areas of white, was very noticeable, i couldn't browse the internet, because on one half the images/text/etc. was lower in brightness, and the other side was extremely higher in brightness, basically to be equal, i either needed to use very cold colors(blue-ish) or to put my browser window in the part of the screen where displayed the proper color.

And i really need an IPS, if i find an IPS that is the same or almost the same in response time or lag as that U2312HM i will be happy, also without the white problem of course. Asked some people, saw some games playing, and they say the LG IPS234V-PN is ok for gaming, and has no major ghosting, i don't need to be like a TN, just want to don't have major ghosting, like that BenQ VA had. This is really the list time i put money in monitors, my only option saw the offers on my local IT store (europe) and filtered by IPS panels, and the price to be low too, is the IPS234V-PN. People say that every IPS by LG has a real response time of 14ms bwb. As long as it will not have something major in gaming. And i imagine U2312HM being an IPS has the same 14ms time.
 

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After reading your posts (and frankly it's sort of scary if someone gets angry enough to smash hardware, tbh), I think you simply need to forget about LCD's and just spend your effort on grabbing a decent CRT that's in good condition, learn how to maintain it, possibly get it recapped to avoid bad/bulging cap issues (that will take a lot of research plus someone who can actually still work on these things) and just hold onto that CRT until OLED monitors hit mainstream and drop under $1k.

That's what I recommend. Because the only LCD's that can give you the quality you want are the $1,000+ ones, and I don't know how well those perform on the desktop/gaming, etc, and you will definitely have to worry about either ghosting or input lag.

Grab a CRT and wait for OLED.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As i said before tested a couple of IPS, and TN monitors, and NONE of those had my white problems. So i smashed it because that model from DELL is a crap monitor. I don't think you realize how big was the problem. The part where was pure white, when i touched the screen was very hot, and the part with the problems was cold, so that model has something wrong by factory.

Don't need a CRT, please don't troll. I just wanted to tell here what happened. I will try my luck with AH-IPS, instead of the E-IPS U2312HM had. IPS234V will try it in a couple of weeks, and post here the results.
 

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Uh huh... The more overdrive you use the more ghosting you see? You're getting overshoot from too much overdrive. You should have turned it down
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I really don't understand what you say, what means no processing delays? Are you saying that for a normal human eye, the IPS234V-PN will be the same in terms of response time ? I also saw people playing games in youtube on IPS234V, so this seems to be decent in gaming.

In the PRAD review, what means on the picture s/w and D15 ? Also what this actually means ?
" The OSD of the IPS234V is a overscan, which is disabled by default, so a 1080p input signal is displayed pixel. If you activate the overscan, the display is slightly enlarged and cropped Approximately 20 edge pixels of the image."
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalinTM View Post

I really don't understand what you say, what means no processing delays? Are you saying that for a normal human eye, the IPS234V-PN will be the same in terms of response time ? I also saw people playing games in youtube on IPS234V, so this seems to be decent in gaming.

In the PRAD review, what means on the picture s/w and D15 ? Also what this actually means ?
" The OSD of the IPS234V is a overscan, which is disabled by default, so a 1080p input signal is displayed pixel. If you activate the overscan, the display is slightly enlarged and cropped Approximately 20 edge pixels of the image."
Lower processing delays of any kind, so less time between getting an input and displaying it, so less input lag. I mean less input lag.

I'm saying that IPS234V-PN might look slower and blurrier (but not much) for some pixel transitions, so for some motion, it may look a little worse than the U2312HM. It might look a little better for some others, because there will be less reverse ghosting (overshoot). If you turned AMA to the highest on the GW2450HM and saw worse motion performance, that was because of higher reverse ghosting (overshoot). Actually, the LG is faster for the black/white transition, just slower for most changes.

In the bar graphs, lower numbers represent lower response times. There are three difference scenarios shown, then the overall latency (by some measure) at the bottom. You can see the numbers for the IPS234V-PN are higher for the same tests than on the U2312HM, but the graph to the right indicates less overshoot: the green line doesn't go past the value of the square black line.

The s/w is schwarz / weisse (black / white) transition.
The GtG is the best gray-to-gray measured.
D15 is the average of 15 gray-to-gray transitions measured.
Latenz is latency.

The other thing is not really relevant to what you're asking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Wow, thanks for clarifying this for me. So basically the LG has better black white transition but stays rather a little slower on GTG. Also, i hope will be better on overshoot, because i had some minor on U2312HM.

Also, what is Fall and Rise from that graph ? Seems is 2-6 ms slower on GTG and D15 compared with U2312HM. What i try to ask if how i will notice a slower GTG response time, how it will manifest ?
 
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