[venomblade]

Is it an anatomy thing on a case to case basis? You'll hear people say 30-45fps is perfectly smooth for them, and yet if I ever drop that low in games(hell as soon as I drop under 60, even if it's 55fps, the difference in fluidity is extremely apparent and it just becomes a stuttery mess.) 30-35fps is absolutely unplayable to me, to the point where my eyes would hurt. 40-45 fps is ok, still very noticeable stutter, doesn't feel/look good but it doesn't give me eyeaches. So does aybody have a proven answer as to why this happens?

 

[Ganf]

expectations and standards. Some people have just gotten used to low frames and find a certain threshold to be acceptable. It's not any sort of physical difference, it's just a preference.

 

[ZealotKi11er]

Low fps should not give stutter. Less fluid but not stutter. Thats just bad GPU drivers.

 

[Ukkooh]

From my experience it depends just on what you're used to. If you would game 2 years at 30 fps you wouldn't notice it anymore but 60 fps would be a mindblowing experience after that.

Edit: @ZealotKi11er sadly some game engines just are stupid like that.

 

[Ganf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er

Low fps should not give stutter. Less fluid but not stutter. Thats just bad GPU drivers.

Keep in mind that not everyone uses the word stutter in the same context. I've noticed that a lot of us have been giving it a very niche definition, which you just described. Poor GPU performance.

 

[venomblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er

Low fps should not give stutter. Less fluid but not stutter. Thats just bad GPU drivers.

Ya'know I did hear something about Nvidia sacrifricing frametimes, for higher frames(or something like that) in their newer drivers. I am currently on 313.96. Would you recommend me rolling back to a specific set? Also now that I think of it, it really depends on the game that I notice the stutter with lower framerates. Crysis 3 beta for example, felt leagues better even when I was at 40 fps, when compared to any other game I would play at the same framerate.

Also, an occurence that always perplexed me, was that my laptop with an HD 4650m GPU would feel smoother at lower frames in comparison to my desktop. Even at 30-35 fps, it wouldn't be stuttery, it would just be "slower", less fluid as you've said. So I guess AMD has it right with their drivers while Nvidia...I don't know what they're doing..
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganf

Keep in mind that not everyone uses the word stutter in the same context. I've noticed that a lot of us have been giving it a very niche definition, which you just described. Poor GPU performance.

I honestly don't know what else I could call it. It really does feel/look like a very obvious stutter/jitter. Even some games when I'm above 60 it appears(but doesn't feel) to have a jitter, but I've just assumed it's the tearing I would be getting that gives off that impression.

If you have Far Cry 3, try setting your vsync to 2 frames so it caps you at 30 and tell me how that feels to you. It looks/feels absolutely horrid to me. I'd doubt it looks/feels the same on the console version of Far Cry 3 or we would've heard how it's a jittery mess on there.

 

[KungMartin90]

Quote:

Originally Posted by venomblade

Is it an anatomy thing on a case to case basis? You'll hear people say 30-45fps is perfectly smooth for them, and yet if I ever drop that low in games(hell as soon as I drop under 60, even if it's 55fps, the difference in fluidity is extremely apparent and it just becomes a stuttery mess.) 30-35fps is absolutely unplayable to me, to the point where my eyes would hurt. 40-45 fps is ok, still very noticeable stutter, doesn't feel/look good but it doesn't give me eyeaches. So does aybody have a proven answer as to why this happens?

For an fps yes, anything under say 60 fps is very uncomfortable to the eye. but anything above 40 fps is perfectly playable, and your eyes can easily adjust to it.

 

[zinfinion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by venomblade

Ya'know I did hear something about Nvidia sacrifricing frametimes, for higher frames(or something like that) in their newer drivers.

That's backwards. It was AMD that was doing this and TechReport called them out on it and started a huge kerfuffle between red and green team in the forums and then AMD came back and was all "Uhhh, you got us, we'll fix it" but so far it's only been addressed in three games.

As for frametimes and what is acceptable, as long as your frametimes are consistent, it's fine. When you have Vsync on and are going from 16.67ms to 33.33ms every other frame for an avg of 45FPS, that feels bad. But if you have Vsync off and are getting a consistent 22.22ms frametime for an avg 45 FPS than that is fine. So long as the tearing is not too bad obviously.

 

[venomblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinfinion

That's backwards. It was AMD that was doing this and TechReport called them out on it and started a huge kerfuffle between red and green team in the forums and then AMD came back and was all "Uhhh, you got us, we'll fix it" but so far it's only been addressed in three games.

As for frametimes and what is acceptable, as long as your frametimes are consistent, it's fine. When you have Vsync on and are going from 16.67ms to 33.33ms every other frame for an avg of 45FPS, that feels bad. But if you have Vsync off and are getting a consistent 22.22ms frametime for an avg 45 FPS than that is fine. So long as the tearing is too bad obviously.

That's just the thing. I NEVER have vsync on. Only game I have it on for is Far Cry 3, which somehow got rid of the stuttering that is synonymous with the game and still hasn't been fully fixed.(adaptive vsync specifically). In all my other games, if I was to be ~40-45fps, it would feel "ok" when moving the mouse around(responsive), but look very stuttery.

 

[youpekkad]

Yea exactly, its what you get used to. I gamed several years on console (PSone, PS2, XBOX360) and I thought GTA-games were very smooth (~30fps+occasional drops), now that I´ve played BF3 for some time @ 72Hz/72fps, drops to 60-65fps feels mehh in multiplayer-games, like BF3, CSS, in SP-games 50-60fps is still perfectly fine, cant stand 30fps anymore though

 

[KungMartin90]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youpekkad

Yea exactly, its what you get used to. I gamed several years on console (PSone, PS2, XBOX360) and I thought GTA-games were very smooth (~30fps+occasional drops), now that I´ve played BF3 for some time @ 72Hz/72fps, drops to 60-65fps feels mehh in multiplayer-games, like BF3, CSS, in SP-games 50-60fps is still perfectly fine, cant stand 30fps anymore though

Personally think 30 fps is perfectly fine in third person games though. I thought Dead Space 3 capped at 30 fps was fine.

 

[venomblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KungMartin90

Personally think 30 fps is perfectly fine in third person games though. I thought Dead Space 3 capped at 30 fps was fine.

Are you talking about console? On PC, when vsync is in capping DS3 to 30 it was a stuttery mess. I've no clue how console capped at 30 can differ from PC capped at 30 so much.

 

[Cheeseinat0r]

Personally I play both console and PC so I'm pretty much used to any range of fps. Anything below 30 fps for me is annoying though and I see console games sometimes dip below 30. Pretty much anything above 40 on PC and I could care less. Skyrim and Far Cry 3 usually chill out at 45-50 fps which I would consider very playable.

 

[R4ID]

im used to 60+frames(i run 150+ for most of the games i play) but i will say this, i just upgraded from 75hz to 120hz monitor and im not sure if its like this for all games but its a world of difference in games like CS:GO.... i feel almost as if its cheating.. just feels Super smooth compared to my old monitor.

 

[666lbs]

Steady 30 fps can appear smooth when you play exclusively at that framerate for extended periods of time. However, when this 30 fps cap is increased to 60, you'll notice the same almost artificial looking smoothness that people often comment on in regard to 60 fps livestreams.

Can test for yourself over the course of 2 days with any framelimiter.

 

[th3illusiveman]

weird thing is i can play console games no problem but the PC ports at the same fps is very uncomfortable.

 

[Vonnis]

I think there may be some physical difference with people's eyes, or the part of the brain responsible for interpreting visual stimuli. Taking a non-gaming example, I sometimes notice lights flickering/strobing and it absolutely drives me nuts, yet when I comment on it nobody else in the room notices. Same with the image on a tv screen (though that's more of a shaking, when it happens). Some people appear to be more (or less) sensitive to fast visual changes.

 

[KungMartin90]

Quote:

Originally Posted by venomblade

Are you talking about console? On PC, when vsync is in capping DS3 to 30 it was a stuttery mess. I've no clue how console capped at 30 can differ from PC capped at 30 so much.

Obviously I'm talking about PC. When I played DS3 capped at 30 fps (I now play at 60), it was perfectly fluid. Sure there were obvious less frames, and I felt a huge difference when I changed to 60. But it was still more than playable.

 

[AlaskaFox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KungMartin90

Personally think 30 fps is perfectly fine in third person games though. I thought Dead Space 3 capped at 30 fps was fine.

being stuck at 30fps on any game is horrible for me

for instance, it took me a while to realise in deadspace 1 that i was capped at 30fps, as soon as i took the cap off, the game became a heck of a lot more enjoyable.

now that being said, i couldnt "see" that i wasnt getting 60fps, its more of a feeling that something is wrong.

same goes for when i notice the difference between 60fps and 120fps.
seeing live video caption at 120fps compared to 60fps seems phenominaly smooth, almost surreal and automated.
Call me crazy but it almost feels to me like im seeing higher rate of motion than i would if i were to actualy see the video scene with my own eyes on set.

 

[Cheeseinat0r]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlaskaFox

being stuck at 30fps on any game is horrible for me

for instance, it took me a while to realise in deadspace 1 that i was capped at 30fps, as soon as i took the cap off, the game became a heck of a lot more enjoyable.

now that being said, i couldnt "see" that i wasnt getting 60fps, its more of a feeling that something is wrong.

same goes for when i notice the difference between 60fps and 120fps.
seeing live video caption at 120fps compared to 60fps seems phenominaly smooth, almost surreal and automated.
Call me crazy but it almost feels to me like im seeing higher rate of motion than i would if i were to actualy see the video scene with my own eyes on set.

This is kinda how I feel about the newer high-end TVs. They run at 120 or 240Hz now and the smoothness is a bit strange. Things just kind of seem to flow on an entirely different level. This is especially noticeable with cartoons.