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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all!

I am moving from an h70 into the realm of full loop water cooling. My goal is to get my i7 950 above 4Ghz and still run good temps. I have been reading and researching a lot into what components I need and which ones are the best.

I have several questions that I will ask in this post.

I am considering either the XSPC Rasa 750 RS240 or RS360 Kits. Would this be sufficient?
Will I get better performace per dollar if i piece my own system together?

What are the most important components to spend my money on?
I assume the water block is one of these. I am prepared to get the EK Supreme HF or Swiftech APOGEE-XT block. I am leaning more toward the EK Supreme HF simply because I have seen a lot of reviews about the Swiftech APOGEE-XT claiming that the screws begin to strip after 3 or 4 seats.

Pumps:
For right now, If I can get away with only water cooling my cpu, that would be great. Is there any reason I would need to water cool the chipset, mosfets? I have not seen anyone water cooling their Asus Sabertooth X58, which is the mobo I am using. Does the chipset, mosfets need to be cooled when overclocking the cpu a lot? I may add a cooling block to my GPU (Redeon 6870) in the future.

Basically, right now, I will only be water cooling the cpu. Is there a well priced pump that I can get that will support this, and maybe one other cooling block in the future.

I know the importance of the block, rad, and pump. Are these the areas I should spend my money?
 

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The Rasa kits are very popular, either a 360 radiator will handle CPU and future GPU or the 240 rad will handle the CPU now. Blocks, most like the Supreme HF, it's on my list as an upgrade
rolleyes.gif
Motherboard cooling is generally not needed unless you get into extreme OCing or massive SLI setups, you should be fine on stock. You can always add the mobo blocks later if you find you need them, but it's probably best to save your money upfront.

If you wanted a do-it-yourself budget loop, I'd say:

$~70 MCP355 or MCP655
$30-50 Swiftech MCR 220 or MCR320 radiator (they're very inexpensive and perform well with low airflow, though they're a performance step below the thicker RX and TA/PA rads, you won't really see much impact on a CPU only loop)
$? Supreme HF

Yate Loon HS + Fan controller
$3.99 @PPCs, 5 I think at Petra's/Sidewinder No need for a res, I prefer a T-line, but that's personal preference.

Pump tops are useful for the 355, but not really needed for the 655.

Tubing
$2/ft max @ ~5' I'm guessing for CPU only
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb112;11995676
I am eying this res/pump combo.

XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir - Laing D5 / MCP655

I have not been able to find any reviews on the pump on in this combo. Does anyone know how well this performs? Specs? Will this handle more than one cooling block?
It works fine for cpu and gpu single loop, my friend is running a 1055t @4ghz at all times and a 480 that is pretty heavily ocd and his gpu temps at load never get above 54c.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb112;11995438
Thank you for the great info. If I went with the Rasa 240 kit, would I just add a 120mm rad in the future, this would be sufficient for cpu + gpu right?
Yes, or sell the 240 and get a single 360 or just keep the 240 and turn up the fans + run a bit hotter. A 240 will still dump enough heat with high fans to support a CPU and mid-range GPU, it's all about how hot you're willing to see things, the 240 CPU + GPU will probably have temps similar to air, maybe 15-20C delta above ambient..? It becomes less a matter of capability and more of desired performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb112;11995676
I am eying this res/pump combo.

XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir - Laing D5 / MCP655

I have not been able to find any reviews on the pump on in this combo. Does anyone know how well this performs? Specs? Will this handle more than one cooling block?
I have a pair of D5s running in my sig rig; I love them personally. I've never used a 355, but I've had these 655(vario model) for 3 and 2 years each, both are running flawlessly. I have them paired in an EK Parallel Dual top with the pumps spaced out in the loop to decrease the pressure-drop across the loop. I also have a very large loop though. In most practical applications I don't think you'll see any performance difference between the D5 and the 355. The only difference is that there are more tops for the 355 though EK and others have started making more 655 tops. I would also say that I prefer a T-line to a res, but that's personal preference.

Edit: The D5 will easily handle several blocks. I have 2 D5s on the highest speed setting, for 3 rads, 2 mobo mosfet blocks, 1 CPU block, 2 GPU blocks, and several assorted elbows and I get great flowrates/temps. Also noise is not an issue, once bled the D5 is essentially silent, you'll have to touch it to make sure it's running
biggrin.gif


Also, I am not familiar with the Sniper, but make sure you look at whether the dual-bay res will fit in your case with the specific drive rail arrangement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Is a T-line used to bleed a loop? I have heard of t-lines being used through reading through the forums, but can you explain how it works, and how it can be subbed for a res?

I have been reading about pump tops and different barb fitting sizes. Are barbs used to connect a res/rad/pump to the tubing? I can imagine the different sizes are for different desired pressures. Is this correct? ex: 1/2" fitting would provide more flow, but lower pressure than a 3/8" fitting. I can see that this would be desirable to increase flow, but undesirable because of low pressure. (Assuming my theory is correct)

I am a total noob at this, and sincerely appreciate all your help.
 

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A T-line lets you add water to a loop much like a reservoir, it's just smaller in volume and takes up less space in the case. Once a loop is bled, it's a closed system, so there will not be much (any) water loss, so having a large res is not necessary, they're more akin to an overflow tank on your radiator instead of a gas tank.

5337180870_249df54fa2_b.jpg
DSC_4628 by SaltwaterCooled, on Flickr

You can see the T just before the pump, and it goes up vertically to keep a small amount of water in reserve. You want to have the T or res (a water source) right before the pump, so that it doesn't ever run dry when filling. For simplicity I just a threaded stop-plug that allows me to attach a longer tube and funnel when I want to fill the loop, but allows me to only have the short line (~12") in the case when the loop is blen and running. I prefer the T because it's flexible and cheap, and doesn't have any of the issues with cycloning or gurgling that may occur with a res, or the space requirements of a bay res.

As to barbs, I would recommend 1/2 barbs, they're the standard size for most components (a 355 is stock with 3/8 barbs so I'd either get a top or a 655 which has 1/2 barbs), and they allow the most volume flow which is my mind is most important. You wont get into jet/nozzle effects with the barbs, so focusing on maximum flow and minimum restriction is key. That's why you see 'fat boy' barbs and others, that have a 1/2 OD (for 1/2 tubing) and a very large Inner Diameter, to allow for the most water to run through.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb112;11996828
Very helpful!

If I can save money and not have to get a res, I am all for that!

Is the 355 or 655 a better pump? Would you recommend the 655 or 355 w/ 1/2" top?
I prefer the 655 for its speed controller, cool operating temps and stock 1/2" barbs.

I am uploading some more pics for you, I just added some water to demonstrate.

Here's the T, you can see the water level in it, just below the fan.
5352034829_decba25e87_b.jpg
DSC_4784 by SaltwaterCooled, on Flickr

Again:
5352034109_ab09f13cfc_b.jpg
DSC_4783 by SaltwaterCooled, on Flickr

Added water, new level right near that wire.
5352642626_6a6f9dc525_b.jpg
DSC_4785 by SaltwaterCooled, on Flickr

Here is the line tucked back in and hidden:
5352642240_2af09ba991_b.jpg
DSC_4787 by SaltwaterCooled, on Flickr

And my funnel setup.
5352643410_f3f085cf07_b.jpg
DSC_4786 by SaltwaterCooled, on Flickr

It's also worth noting that I could put a fillport in the top of the case and just hook the T to that, but I prefer the stock appearance on the top, so I haven't done that.

Also not relevant, but you can see from the pics with the mobo in them that the rig is on while I'm adding water, the shutter on the camera just made the fans look like they're still...

Final point, I'm clampless because that is 7/16ID tubing over 1/2" fittings, it's extremely tight/durable/waterproof, and it looks much sleeker. It's a pain trying to get the tubing on there, you need to use hot water to soften it, but then it's pretty much on there permanently, you'll have to cut it off. Again, my preference
biggrin.gif
 

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I'm using Primochill UV-Blue, 7/16"IDx 1/2"OD, for the clampless fit I mentioned. I like the Primochill although it has a bit of a 'grain' to it, the Feser UV blue I had was smoother, but didn't come in the right size for me. I've also had great experiences with Tygon, but it stains easily, though on that note I would avoid dyes altogether, you can see pics of my CPU block all gunked up in my build log
eek.gif
Balance price and style, you'll also have a short loop so while I would get 150% of the tubing you think you'll need (first loop, you'll want extra/spare) it's not going to run a huge bill... my 15 feet on the other hand
rolleyes.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Cool. I have no idea how much tube I will need for a single loop. My guess would be about 5 feet?

Also I have been checking out the PrimoChill tubing on frozencpu.com. All I can find on there is 7/16"ID 5/8"OD and 3/8"ID 1/2"OD. Where did you find yours?

I like this setup because I like the clamp-less solution. Looks very clean.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by kirb112
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Cool. I have no idea how much tube I will need for a single loop. My guess would be about 5 feet?

Also I have been checking out the PrimoChill tubing on frozencpu.com. All I can find on there is 7/16"ID 5/8"OD and 3/8"ID 1/2"OD. Where did you find yours?

I like this setup because I like the clamp-less solution. Looks very clean.

I got mine from Performance-PCs.com, and for the clampless setup I would recommend the 7/16"ID 5/8"OD tubing and use 1/2"OD barbs. Remember that the tubing ID and barb OD is what you want to match, and for the clampless setup you want to go 1/16" smaller diameter for the tube than your fittings which gives the secure seal. Let me know when you get to the construction phase, I'll be happy to help walk you through it! Depending on your case and layout I'd say 5' is a good estimate for total length, so I'd order 8'. You may wind up only using 3' or make a mistake/change your mind and go use 7'. I find that it's always better to order a bit more than you think and either keep it in 'stock' or not have to wait for shipping when, not if, you need more


If you go with a T-line, there's another foot or two automatically, and then 3-4' for the loop is fairly normal unless everything lines up easily and you have a really short run of tubing.
 

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Bang for the buck performance increases?

One word:

Radiators

Lowering the air/water delta T by increasing the radiator surface area and airflow across said surface is the best $ to return there is, period. Everything else is icing and fluff. Mind you icing and fluff are nice to haves, but if the question is performance radiators are where the magic happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soggysilicon;12007044
Bang for the buck performance increases?

One word:

Radiators

Lowering the air/water delta T by increasing the radiator surface area and airflow across said surface is the best $ to return there is, period. Everything else is icing and fluff. Mind you icing and fluff are nice to haves, but if the question is performance radiators are where the magic happens.
Thank you soggysilicon. I appreciate your comment. I thought the rad was the most critical component for lowering temps. Can anyone else second this?
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by kirb112
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Thank you soggysilicon. I appreciate your comment. I thought the rad was the most critical component for lowering temps. Can anyone else second this?

It's a combination of a good block and enough rad. If you already have enough rad, adding more isn't going to help much at all (you may only see a couple degrees difference). The difference between a good block and a not so good block could be as much as 10c. If you already purchased the xspc rasa kit, then you got a great block.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
SaltwaterCooled,

I am just about ready to make the big purchase. I will post what I am going to get on here before I do.

Before I finalize what I am going to get, I have a few more questions:

Question 1
What is the correct order to place my components?

ex: pump>rad>cpu block

in the future, when I add gpu block,

ex: pump>rad>cpu block>gpu block

I ask because I want to make sure I purchase the right barbs (regular, 90 degree, 45 degree) to best suit my case.

Question 2
If I have 1 rad, 1 block, and 1 pump, will I need a total of 6 barbs? Two for each component?

Question 3
If I get this for my T-line, can I use the same barbs that I am using for the rest of my system? These barbs would be the ones I need to use with the clampless 7/16" ID tubing correct?

Is this what I need for the top of my T-line? Is there another part that I need as well?

I did have a few more questions, but they are not coming to mind right now. I will post as I remember.
 
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