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Discussion Starter #1
I have tried playing with the MX518 on default 125hz on a 120hz BenQ monitor, and I notice that the movement feels laggy.

I remember playing ages ago on 125hz MX518 on a standard 60hz lcd and and a crt without mouse lag.

What is the issue?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeshon View Post

I have tried playing with the MX518 on default 125hz on a 120hz BenQ monitor, and I notice that the movement feels laggy.

I remember ages ago on 125hz on a standard lcd and and a crt and I don't think the 125hz MX518 would cause lag.

What is the issue?
125Hz is actually very low frequency for a mouse. Ideally you want it closer to 1000hz.

That's likely the cause of your issue.

However, using "lag" as a descriptive term is very vague. What are the symptoms you are seeing? High latency? Stuttering/juddering image? Stuttering/juddering aim but smooth image?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommanche View Post

125Hz is actually very low frequency for a mouse. Ideally you want it closer to 1000hz.

That's likely the cause of your issue.

However, using "lag" as a descriptive term is very vague. What are the symptoms you are seeing? High latency? Stuttering/juddering image? Stuttering/juddering aim but smooth image?
Stuttering/juddering image I would say would best describe it.

I find it odd because I remember playing on a crt ages ago with 125hz Mx518 without a problem.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeshon View Post

Stuttering/juddering image I would say would best describe it.

I find it odd because I remember playing on a crt ages ago with 125hz Mx518 without a problem.
What's odd about that? You cant compare a CRT monitor to an LCD/LED monitor.
Also your openings-post is way too short and lacks details to actually give proper advice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by acid_reptile View Post

That's true. Old mice felt better at stock 125hz.
what? i love my overclocked MLT04 mice. they certainly do not feel better at 125hz. (to me, that is.)
 

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it doesn't 'lag' to me, it just feels choppy because generally most people can get higher fps than 125. if you played at 120 fps you probably wouldnt notice it as much
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeshon View Post

I find it odd because I remember playing on a crt ages ago with 125hz Mx518 without a problem.
Nostalgia's a *****. You've been spoiled by a 1000hz mouse. Put your 125hz mouse in the closet and savior those memories of that mouse not lagging.
But basically this is called the strobe effect on all finite-frame-rate displays(crts,lcds,plasmas...). This is why even on a 1000hz mouse and a 144hz lcd display you can see a trail behind the mouse cursor. And using a 125hz mouse will feel choppy. More info here.
 

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So here's a question.

If I get 200-300 fps in a game. Will my mouse movement be smoother choosing 500hz over 1000hz because it's closer to my in-game fps? I kind of attempted to test this and I didn't really see much of a difference, just trying to get the best setting as far as smoooooooooothness is concerned
 

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I don't think so. Personally, in a blind test I wouldn't be able to tell 500hz and 1000hz apart. If you haven't done any optimization to your system 500hz is probably best just because it's usually more stable.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallux View Post

So here's a question.

If I get 200-300 fps in a game. Will my mouse movement be smoother choosing 500hz over 1000hz because it's closer to my in-game fps? I kind of attempted to test this and I didn't really see much of a difference, just trying to get the best setting as far as smoooooooooothness is concerned
It has nothing to do with game fps. Use whatever setting feels best for you. 500Hz vs 1000MHz most people can't tell the difference.
 

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The higher the frequency the smoother the motion should be. Your mouse is not synced with your frame rate so there will always be variations in the relative timing of polls and frames being rendered and this will lead to some frames having a different number of polls being displayed. When the polling frequency is lower this frame with a different number of polls will cause a large difference. When the frequency is high the difference will be smaller. For example assuming a stable fps at 120fps and 125hz polling there will normally only be one poll between each frame, but then 5 frames per second will have 2 polls. If you are moving the mouse at a constant rate that means those frames will show twice as much mouse movement. At 1000hz you have either 8 or 9 polls between frames at a constant 120fps. If you assume constant movement movement again that is only a 12.5% difference in movement displayed by the frames vs 100% difference at 125hz. 500hz would fall somewhere in the middle with 4 or 5 polls between frames or a 25% difference.

Also a slower polling rate doesn't necessarily lead to more input lag, but it leads to a higher variance in input lag. If a poll comes just a fraction of a second to late to be included in a certain frame there is much more information that is being delayed until the next frame at 125hz than at 500hz or 1000hz.

Edit: Also lower polling rate does lead to a slightly higher input lag, but the inconsistency may be an even bigger problem than the input lag itself. The input lag associated with mouse polling itself should average 4ms at 125hz, but can vary from 0-8ms, for 500hz average of 1ms range of 0-2ms, 1000hz average of 0.5ms range of 0-1ms. So while on average you don't gain all that much as far as input lag the consistency is much higher at higher polling rates assuming the system is stable at that polling rate.
 

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The closer your monitor and mouse refresh rates are to each other, the more out of sync they will feel.

You an get away with a 125hz mouse on a 60hz monitor, because you almost always have a fresh(ish) mouse frame to display with every monitor frame. Furthermore, the end-to-end muse latency is consistently within what your mind and eyes consider "normal".

When you run a 125hz mouse with a 120~hz monitor, you can have serious issues.

If both devices are 100% in sync with eachother's rate (both at exactly 125hz for instance), then you will have a very consistent feel, but not necessarily a very responsive one, as synced rates are not the same as synced output times. Your mouse could be presenting a new frame 0.001ms before the monitor does, giving you a nice fresh frame all the time, which would be ideal, or you could have it presenting frames 7.999ms before the monitor frame, giving you a consistent lag that makes it feel like your cursor is dragging behind your mouse, rather than being directly coupled with it.

There is literally nothing you can do to force the mouse and monitor to sync outputs, so the changes of you getting a good result is low. Then there is the issue that almost no mice are 100% consistent on their rate, almost almost no monitors actually display at precisely 125hz. In the real world your "125hz" mouse is jumping around from 122-126hz, and your monitor is outputting at 199-121hz. Out the window goes all the consistency discussed above, and now you are constantly cycling through the entire spectrum between maximum and minimum sync, giving you a a laggy and jittery cursor.

To top things off, your mind is now twice as focused on movements, due to the consistently higher frame rate you are looking at now compared to when you were looking at a 60hz monitor. Flaws that you didn't notice then, you do notice now.

Ideally, you want your mouse to be running at, at least, a little over double your monitor output.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucake View Post

what? i love my overclocked MLT04 mice. they certainly do not feel better at 125hz. (to me, that is.)
Compared to new mice @ 125hz, which are made with 500hz or 1000hz and high cpi in mind.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by acid_reptile View Post

Compared to new mice @ 125hz, which are made with 500hz or 1000hz and high cpi in mind.
i think this is right... depending on firmware, mice can have (slightly less than) 8ms-16ms input lag at 125hz. wmo has 0-8ms.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

There is literally nothing you can do to force the mouse and monitor to sync outputs, so the changes of you getting a good result is low. Then there is the issue that almost no mice are 100% consistent on their rate, almost almost no monitors actually display at precisely 125hz. In the real world your "125hz" mouse is jumping around from 122-126hz, and your monitor is outputting at 199-121hz. Out the window goes all the consistency discussed above, and now you are constantly cycling through the entire spectrum between maximum and minimum sync, giving you a a laggy and jittery cursor.
.
Another reason why so many people prefer 1000hz . It just syncs with everything.
 

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"syncing" framerate with mouse polling rate or monitor refresh rate or whatever is kind of pseudoscience. mice for whatever reason are not polled at consistent intervals (unless artificially forced? not sure on this one), frame timing is not consistent, monitor refresh rates are rarely *exactly* the stated number, et cetera. the result is that higher frequency is essentially more responsive, with diminishing returns. while it seems suboptimal, computers work this way to avoid problems with stability and compatibility
 

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if you sync them it would just result in slow latency fluctuations instead of a random window. The random window is actually a lot better. the only way would be to drive monitor updates relative to mouse updates good luck with that
 

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usb polling is stable within nanoseconds. this is guaranteed by usb specs and i've checked myself with a scope

mouse rate checkers don't reflect this because of the added jitter from the overhead of the os.
 
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