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So, not more than a week after getting openSUSE 11.3 up and running perfectly on my ASUS1001P it suddenly decides to stop loading repos and spits out this error about how the XML metadata for the opensuse home server is incorrect and therefore can't download from it.


I have been going through Linux builds like a multiple personality disorder patient goes through personalities since June. And the thing that I am getting rather tired of is how all of these distros seem to end up riding the spanish donkey. There is not one distro I have tried that is without some crippling flaw whether it be in on the install or sometime down the road.

Why is this? I mean...when I'm not dealing with these things Linux is the OS that I love more than any other. But, as soon as I reach that stage the build/distro just impales itself with failure.
 

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@TFB: In almost all of them it is usually updating. That's pretty much the last thing. Except in Slackware, Eeebuntu, and EasyPeasy as they never got internet access working through WIFI.

@Philwrir: I know of him. But this is more of just a pondering why they allow these things to happen. Though, if anyone has a clue as to why openSUSE is having PMS and how to fix it I'd appreciate it.

Example: When I update Meego it magically decided that it needed to have kernel panics whenever trying to connect to a WIFI source.

With Ubuntu 10.04 Gnome began glitching and tearing (just Gnome as in the DE not the screen) making it impossible to navigate around the DE. I followed a crap load of guides to try and fix that all to no avail. The irony is that this problem showed up after I got sound to finally work on my sig rig.

Saybayon would not even respond after a certain point during it's install in which it would never finish (I figure if it can't finish after 4 hours it's not going to).

Fedora 13 would randomly decide to make all of the programs that I manually added in myself disappear. Which led to the hilarious moments of it telling me when I tried to reinstall them that I shouldn't since I already had them installed (where, it did not know).

Slackware would be perfect if it had a simpleton version that told you what you absolutely needed to install and what was optional. Being still new to Linux I gave up trying to get just what I needed and wanted. Thus I installed and dumped the whole 4.7GB of packages into an install. Was not happy with that.
 

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have you added any repositories?

without knowing the exact error, i can't be sure, but googling "incorrect metadate opensuse", all the errors to zypper/yast/etc, seem to localized to incorrectly added repo's or repo's that are currently offline.
 

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@Transhour: I wish it had just been that problem, but I don't add repos. I only add source, rpm, or whatever package I need to get a program working/installed. And the last time the servers were only offline for 2hrs when I tried them (kernel update).

LOL. Well it's unfortunately what I thought the problem was...new kernel followed by the next day the reports of what program(s) that kernel destroyed. In my case it seems that skype was the problem which then spread to CUPS (IDK how) and then destroyed the update ability. openSUSE was flooded yesterday and early in the last week with complaints after the kernel update. I'm just wondering how they are going to be able to fix this update problem if the repos are no longer working through the users yast/zypper. Oh well, might just stop updating SUSE until another major rebuild (11.4).

I am wondering though, should I worry that this kernel thing is going to spread to my Kubuntu build? Because that will just promote me to never update kernels and maybe even nothing besides through manual package additions.
 

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two seperate package managers, two different kernels, two different distro's, what effects the one, shouldn't effect the other.

yeah i myself rarely do kernel updates, i usually customize them, i let one slip in yesterday, i wasn't paying enough attention to the update manager i guess, and i've been exp random freezes, and thru my investigation of what could be causing them, i found the kernel update...its been removed with prejudice


hopefully it didn't do anything else while it was here...
 

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Discussion Starter #8


Not what I want to hear....usually the less I touch things the better it is. Would you recommend undoing the kernel in my case? I got rid of skype when it wasn't working. And how do you in terminal tell it to just upgrade certain things? Because, then i'd be able to avoid the kernel thing.

OT: I have Kubuntu on .24 I think...should I let it be? And why the hell did Canical decide to give the middle finger to people with Atheros WIFI cards? If I knew for certain that Kubuntu would not have the same problems it's Gnome brother has with the card then I might just set it up on the netbook too.

And what distro are you using?
 

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tried ubuntu 9.10? i think any thing after 9 has gone down hill. I'd also make remark about linux updates messing things up, but i could probably easily make video of windows xp killing it's self via updates no problem.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post


Not what I want to hear....usually the less I touch things the better it is. Would you recommend undoing the kernel in my case? I got rid of skype when it wasn't working. And how do you in terminal tell it to just upgrade certain things? Because, then i'd be able to avoid the kernel thing.

OT: I have Kubuntu on .24 I think...should I let it be? And why the hell did Canical decide to give the middle finger to people with Atheros WIFI cards? If I knew for certain that Kubuntu would not have the same problems it's Gnome brother has with the card then I might just set it up on the netbook too.

And what distro are you using?
well what you want to do is find out why they are releasing a kernel update, it is usually meant to patch a security hole, or possible fixing a problem some people are exp, my general rule is, if it is a security, i find out how it can effect me, if it doesn't, i don't install it, if it does, i will grab the source and build my own kernel, now if it fixes a problem i am not having, then i typical don't go to it.

they way i usually update my system, i don't know how to do it in suse, but i do know how to do it in debian based distro's that use apt-get

open up a terminal:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get -u upgrade

Quote:
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following packages have been kept back
cpp gcc lilo
The following packages will be upgraded
adduser ae apt autoconf debhelper dpkg-dev esound esound-common ftp indent
ipchains isapnptools libaudiofile-dev libaudiofile0 libesd0 libesd0-dev
libgtk1.2 libgtk1.2-dev liblockfile1 libnewt0 liborbit-dev liborbit0
libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2 libtiff3g libtiff3g-dev modconf orbit procps psmisc
29 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 5055B/5055kB of archives. After unpacking 1161kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
it will produce something like this, i've added the colors, so they wont show in the terminal, but look for what is in red, and what it is blue here, will be the packages it wants to upgrade, i usually copy them, open up gedit, paste them, remove the packages i don't want upgrade, and then i go back to terminal and type in:

sudo apt-get install (pacakages i want to upgrade, copied from gedit)

this usually keeps things out i don't want like kernel updates, or updates to packages i've specifically rebuilt or built myself.

or you could use the gui graphical manager that ubuntu offers to update things, just uncheck what you don't want upgrade, and it wont upgrade (i dislike the gui method, it can boink your system, cause it is a bit ******ed.)

if it is not appearent as of now, i am using ubuntu as my main desktop OS, i use kubuntu on my laptop, and i use slackware on my file server.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
@Transhour: I wish it had just been that problem, but I don't add repos. I only add source, rpm, or whatever package I need to get a program working/installed.
What do you mean buy this statement?
 

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I don't see debian on your list of distro's!!! Try debian pure and go for testing, I've NEVER had a problem with Debian Testing and I've been running debian since around 2002.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
@TFB: In almost all of them it is usually updating. That's pretty much the last thing. Except in Slackware, Eeebuntu, and EasyPeasy as they never got internet access working through WIFI.
<snip>
Slackware would be perfect if it had a simpleton version that told you what you absolutely needed to install and what was optional. Being still new to Linux I gave up trying to get just what I needed and wanted. Thus I installed and dumped the whole 4.7GB of packages into an install. Was not happy with that.
Going backwards -

To be accurate the DVD is 4.0 GB not 4.7 and 2 GB is source provided for those who want it. It doesn't get installed. So now we're down to 2.7GB and of that another roughly 0.7GB is Extras so we actually have approximately 2GB of packages. Whats the problem with that? Why would you be "not happy with that"? Incidentally it does tell you exactly what you need for a base install with X. You just have to read the included Docs.... you know...RTFM.

So the "auto managed" systems that "self-sabotage" did get wifi working for you with that somewhat problematic wifi nic. That is a good thing because if a piece of hardware works in any Linux, it can work in any other Linux. Why not see what it was that worked and apply it to the "near perfect" Slackware?

As it is you're stuck because "auto-managed" does too much and user configured does too little. The easiest to remedy is become a user more knowledgeable in configuration, since there is little you can do about the automatics without becoming a deep programmer instead of a script editor.

Ever hear the one about the guy who set out to swim the English Channel and got half way and decided he couldn't make it so he turned around and swam back? The most common cause of failure is not ignorance or stupidity. It is desiring contradictory results. Decide what you want most and then work to get it without compromise. It will come to you. Obstacles are a given but there is no ultimate failure if you keep going.
 

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Distros don't set themselves up for failure, they just sometimes make mistakes in the process of trying to fulfill everyones needs. Microsoft and Apple does it, as well. It's what happens when the distro managers want to satisfy everything automatically instead of letting users do anything manually. The less you rely on automation, the less issues will occur, and the ability to get exactly what you want becomes much more obtainable.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
Distros don't set themselves up for failure, they just sometimes make mistakes in the process of trying to fulfill everyones needs. Microsoft and Apple does it, as well. It's what happens when the distro managers want to satisfy everything automatically instead of letting users do anything manually. The less you rely on automation, the less issues will occur, and the ability to get exactly what you want becomes much more obtainable.
Exactly, we could easily talk about how many things MS has broken in the past.... But who cares, learn from the mistake and how to fix it and move on! If all those distro's "break" I'm going to say it's probably user error. I'm sorry to say something like that about the OP but you can't just get a new OS and expect things to roll like your previous one. If you don't want to learn how to manage Linux then don't bother installing it because most of these "problems" could have easily been avoided.

Just follow the simple #1 rule: If it's not broke, don't fix it. You have NO need to update or constantly be checking for new programs if your current ones work unless it fixes an issue you are personally experiencing or it adds a feature you need. You'll see things break in linux more than windows because development happens much quicker, things are always being changed and updated without the full extent of the consequences.
 
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Greetz
In 12 years, so including the time I was a rank pre-n00b-escent punk and Linux was a LOT harder, I have never had Slackware break on me despite routinely updating and/or installing new kernels and tons of applications, and even system upgrades. I have created several problems in the past with stupid mistakes that I had to fix but the system was never broken...not even once from v6 through v13.1
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by enorbet2
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Greetz
In 12 years, so including the time I was a rank pre-n00b-escent punk and Linux was a LOT harder, I have never had Slackware break on me despite routinely updating and/or installing new kernels and tons of applications, and even system upgrades. I have created several problems in the past with stupid mistakes that I had to fix but the system was never broken...not even once from v6 through v13.1

Well I don't now about your experiences but I've had Synaptic break things during an "update". This tends to happen when a package is being updated to a "new" version while another package still depends on that specific version.

A huge example would be I update my libgtk2.0 files to something like 1.21.5 but now my xfce-core still wants 1.20.7 and can't use the new package, so synaptic does something stupid and removes xfce-core because it has a wrong dependency. Well now xfce-core is gone so all my xfce packages that depend on it are gone, well I don't have a WM any more. =( This is just a problem with poor package management on the dev side but can happen with any distro. This gets even worse with meta-packages though it is still user error.

If I'm stupid enough to do an update and not read what's being added/subtracted to my list of installed packages the situation is entirely my fault. This is a fundamental difference between Linux and Windows as your expected to interact more with Linux. That doesn't happen as much as it used too but occasionally finds its way in, usually due to rushed development. Who's to blame? Is the user who screams bleeding edge or the developer who gives it to them? If you are constantly the person who fiends for new development with no regards to what's going on then of course problems like this will happen as the developers aren't there to give you bleeding edge and hold your hand.

Every distro is different, every distro has a different development cycle, these are all things you need to get used to when dealing with Linux as opposed to a Windows mind.
 

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I update Ubuntu constantly and I've run into two issues.

Upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10 broke it but that was my own fault since I was warned to do a fresh install.

Upgrading the sound on my own.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by Rookie1337
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@Transhour: I wish it had just been that problem, but I don't add repos. I only add source, rpm, or whatever package I need to get a program working/installed.


Quote:


Originally Posted by un-nefer
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What do you mean buy this statement?

i think what he means, adding repo's from the wild (the internet) that aren't officially maintained by the distro itself, is a dangerous business, there might not be any quality control, or they might have packages in there that conflict with packages you have installed, but are required by other programs you use that you got from the distro's repos.

or simply their might be packages in there, written by dubious programmers to introduce "backdoors" or "hacks" into you OS comprimising your security, in much the same way malware works on windows.

it is always the safer bet to only use distro ran repo's, or distro approved repo's, there are very few of the latter, for ubuntu, i only know of 1 and that is mediabuntu.

so what he prolly does, is downloads programs in the wild, the actual package, then installs it manual, if there isn't a package, he grabs the source and compiles it, and some times they offer a binary, but it is just a tar.gz, that you extract and place it where it belongs.

adding repo's to any package manager is a tricky business, i use to do it, and i've boinked my entire package management system before, spent hours trying to undo the damage it did...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Well I don't now about your experiences but I've had Synaptic break things during an "update". This tends to happen when a package is being updated to a "new" version while another package still depends on that specific version.

A huge example would be I update my libgtk2.0 files to something like 1.21.5 but now my xfce-core still wants 1.20.7 and can't use the new package, so synaptic does something stupid and removes xfce-core because it has a wrong dependency. Well now xfce-core is gone so all my xfce packages that depend on it are gone, well I don't have a WM any more. =( This is just a problem with poor package management on the dev side but can happen with any distro. This gets even worse with meta-packages though it is still user error.

( I totally agree with the rest so..) <snip>
.
Not every distro. Only auto-managed distros. Not Slackware.

That was exactly my point with the caveat that this cannot happen in Slackware unless you defeat the safeguards by installing some 3rd party program that tries to auto-manage dependencies.. By design and default Slackware does not allow auto install or uninstall. You the user/admin decide which programs and dependencies are important to you.

I didn't say I never compiled a program that didn't or wouldn't work. That has happened from time to time and ether I find a workaround, wait for a newer library. find an acceptable substitute or give up on the program. That is an easy, no-brainer price to pay for an unbreakable system... at least to me and other Slackers.
 
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