Overclock.net banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,536 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As title.
Why there are so many people with high end PCs without a good UPS to protect it?

Most of you there leaves in the 110V areas where outages are even more frequent and destructive.

Why buy high end hardware without UPS?
I feel that UPS is a part of my system, not an optional part.

Don't you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Protection of the system against power spikes etc is the job of the PSU imho.

To be able to save files and perform a graceful shutdown when a power outage happens is another thing though.
 

·
Guru Meditation
Joined
·
2,068 Posts
I agree one hundred percent, i even got one with a pure sine wave and active PFC to match my PSU. Never again without a UPS.
thumb.gif
 

·
Guru Meditation
Joined
·
2,068 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1LL View Post

Protection of the system against power spikes etc is the job of the PSU imho.

To be able to save files and perform a graceful shutdown when a power outage happens is another thing though.
The UPS can also regulate the current, so it's not only a matter of power outage, more protection and stability is always better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
- Prolonged power outages are not very frequent in my area. Of course if you are located somewhere with outages more than once every few months it would make more sense to get a UPS for your computer.
- Buy a decent power supply, and the input capacitors are big enough allow you to ride out momentary power outages.
- A decent power supply will also usually have flexible input around 100-250V and transparently handle any voltage fluctuations.
- Active PFC power supplies require a true sine wave UPS. Modified sine isn't good enough and may not work stably or even cause damage.

- Experience of problems, e.g. tripping under load and when we actually had a power outage the battery barely had any charge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smanci View Post

What is 110V and outage?
110V refers to 110 volts alternating current, root mean square.
Outage means no electricity.
 

·
Overclocked
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sblantipodi View Post

As title.
Why there are so many people with high end PCs without a good UPS to protect it?

Most of you there leaves in the 110V areas where outages are even more frequent and destructive.

Why buy high end hardware without UPS?
I feel that UPS is a part of my system, not an optional part.

Don't you?
Its not really an issue if you have a surge diverter in your switchboard
thumb.gif
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,536 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by TUFinside View Post

The UPS can also regulate the current, so it's not only a matter of power outage, more protection and stability is always better.
agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smanci View Post

What is 110V and outage?
Generally 110V areas suffers from more outages than 220V one, not understood well why but it seems to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltpdttcdft View Post

- Prolonged power outages are not very frequent in my area. Of course if you are located somewhere with outages more than once every few months it would make more sense to get a UPS for your computer.
- Buy a decent power supply, and the input capacitors are big enough allow you to ride out momentary power outages.
- A decent power supply will also usually have flexible input around 100-250V and transparently handle any voltage fluctuations.
- Active PFC power supplies require a true sine wave UPS. Modified sine isn't good enough and may not work stably or even cause damage.

- Experience of problems, e.g. tripping under load and when we actually had a power outage the battery barely had any charge.
110V refers to 110 volts alternating current, root mean square.
Outage means no electricity.
It not a question of how long an outage last or how frequent they are. Even a one second outage my permanently damage your computer.
When there is an outage there are generally two big spikes, one before the outage and one after the outage. Outages can be followed or preceded by voltage fluctuations that can be even more disruptive.

A decent PSU can't do anything against outages, good capacitors may retain the PC on for up to 30 milliseconds, outages that lasts milliseconds are so rare that they doesn't worth to be considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scracy View Post

Its not really an issue if you have a surge diverter in your switchboard
thumb.gif
Surge diverter protects against surge spikes, but they can't do anything against downvoltages or voltages fluctuations in general.
 

·
Overclocked
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sblantipodi View Post

agree
It is more difficult for power companies to bring current with only 110V, leave it alone that it is less efficient than 220V areas.
Generally 110V areas suffers from more outages than 220V one.
It not a question of how long an outage last or how frequent they are. Even a one second outage my permanently damage your computer.
When there is an outage there are generally two big spikes, one before the outage and one after the outage. Outages can be followed or preceded by voltage fluctuations that can be even more disruptive.

A decent PSU can't do anything against outages, good capacitors may retain the PC on for up to 30 milliseconds, outages that lasts milliseconds are so rare that they doesn't worth to be considered.
Surge diverter protects against surge spikes, but they can't do anything against downvoltages or voltages fluctuations in general.
True mainly for surges caused by lightning strikes or a HV transformer that fails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,536 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

And what will protect the expensive UPS?
UPS is big enough to handle most of the critical situations and in any case it will cost less than an entire PC with connected peripherals.
 

·
Overclocked
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tashcz View Post

They might become popular when they bring RGB and waterblocks for them. /irony
lol
smile.gif
Personally never worried about a UPS since nothing I do on my P.C is so critical that I might lose days of work without it due to power outage, most contents insurance policies here in Australia cover you for damage caused by a power surge so its an option for an upgrade if something did happen.
 

·
Senioritis Member
Joined
·
8,360 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sblantipodi View Post

As title.
Why there are so many people with high end PCs without a good UPS to protect it?

Most of you there leaves in the 110V areas where outages are even more frequent and destructive.

Why buy high end hardware without UPS?
I feel that UPS is a part of my system, not an optional part.

Don't you?
I agree but not everyone can necessarily afford one or justify the expense when the area they live in has very few power outages. The incidence of power outages where I live varies from year to year. Most years, we may get two or three brief outages a year. However, I remember one year several years ago we were having power averages two or three times a day for a two week period until the electricians were able to isolate the problem to an improperly made direct burial splice made by some idiot in the past. It took so long to find because the fault was intermittent (it's hard to find something that's broken while it isn't broken).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smanci View Post

What is 110V and outage?
It is more difficult for power companies to bring current with only 110V, leave it alone that it is less efficient than 220V areas.
Generally 110V areas suffers from more outages than 220V one.

Even though power transmission is more efficient at higher voltages, the voltage standard itself has nothing to do with the difficulty of delivering power nor the frequency of power outages. Outages are usually caused by power companies' generation and transmission failures, overloading of the grid, aging infrastructure, poor power company management, extreme natural events, damage from auto accidents, etc.

The NEC (National Electric Code) standard for residential voltages in the SSA (Squabbling States of America) is now set at 120/240v + or - 10%. In the past, before the standard was set nationwide, the two most common wall socket voltage standards were 110v and 117v but that goes back over 50 years ago (I can vaguely remember those still being referred to when I was a child, again, over 50 years ago).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
539 Posts
If you really want to protect your PC it's not just about the "outage" concept. You need a UPS that will do line conditioning when your supplied voltage drops or increases too much.

The actual power outage isn't going to be a major issue in regards to damage to actual hardware. Can you lose data? Sure.. you might even end up with a corrupted OS but the actual hardware should be fine.

The simple concept is everything is based on Wattage and Wattage at it's core is known as VA or Volt Amps aka Volts * Amps = Watts. This is actually why countries that use 220/240 etc might be seen as more efficient because the Amperage needed for your Wattage usage is pretty much cut in half.

That comes into play in Brown outs etc where you might not ever have an actual outage. Generally a spike in voltage will be less harmful because Amperage will drop relative to Wattage needs. The real issue is when supplied Voltage begins to nose dive and thus Amperage spikes... this is where you can lose hardware and why line conditioning is important.

Or at least that's my opinion the subject...

On the other hand if you really like to play with new toys.. not having any protection can end up being like the lottery of excuses to go buy new stuff. You might never have an issue....

To be honest outside of a lightning strike back in the early 1990's that took out a dial up modem... I've only lost hardware when I lived in Beaverton, OR and/or Hillsboro, OR. The original house turned out to be wired backwards (reverse polarity)... I hadn't thought to use my trusty outlet tester and then my UPS batteries died for no apparent reason. Turns out they won't charge or at least not at that time when someone wires the outlets backwards... so I loved to a new Apartment in Beaverton. We only had ONE actual power outage in the 10 years I lived there... during an Icestorm one January (I mostly remember parts of Washington State not having power for a month or so). Outside transformers were blowing up everywhere.. sky was this odd green and purple combination color.. didn't lose anything that night.

Mostly the power grid was just unstable aka Voltage drops and Amperage spikes. After I got my new UPS with line conditioning I didn't lose any more components. I still have a setup for my computer.. but each individual will have different experiences of course and even with a locally unstable grid... there is no guarantee you will lose hardware.
 

·
Overclocked
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalwolf View Post

If you really want to protect your PC it's not just about the "outage" concept. You need a UPS that will do line conditioning when your supplied voltage drops or increases too much.

The actual power outage isn't going to be a major issue in regards to damage to actual hardware. Can you lose data? Sure.. you might even end up with a corrupted OS but the actual hardware should be fine.

The simple concept is everything is based on Wattage and Wattage at it's core is known as VA or Volt Amps aka Volts * Amps = Watts. This is actually why countries that use 220/240 etc might be seen as more efficient because the Amperage needed for your Wattage usage is pretty much cut in half.

That comes into play in Brown outs etc where you might not ever have an actual outage. Generally a spike in voltage will be less harmful because Amperage will drop relative to Wattage needs. The real issue is when supplied Voltage begins to nose dive and thus Amperage spikes... this is where you can lose hardware and why line conditioning is important.

Or at least that's my opinion the subject...

On the other hand if you really like to play with new toys.. not having any protection can end up being like the lottery of excuses to go buy new stuff. You might never have an issue....

To be honest outside of a lightning strike back in the early 1990's that took out a dial up modem... I've only lost hardware when I lived in Beaverton, OR and/or Hillsboro, OR. The original house turned out to be wired backwards (reverse polarity)... I hadn't thought to use my trusty outlet tester and then my UPS batteries died for no apparent reason. Turns out they won't charge or at least not at that time when someone wires the outlets backwards... so I loved to a new Apartment in Beaverton. We only had ONE actual power outage in the 10 years I lived there... during an Icestorm one January (I mostly remember parts of Washington State not having power for a month or so). Outside transformers were blowing up everywhere.. sky was this odd green and purple combination color.. didn't lose anything that night.

Mostly the power grid was just unstable aka Voltage drops and Amperage spikes. After I got my new UPS with line conditioning I didn't lose any more components. I still have a setup for my computer.. but each individual will have different experiences of course and even with a locally unstable grid... there is no guarantee you will lose hardware.
Even under these conditions you would have to be really unlucky to lose anything, electricity companies go to enormous lengths to protect their infrastructure with filter banks, surge arresters, protection relays etc on both the HV and LV side
 

·
Senioritis Member
Joined
·
8,360 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scracy View Post

...Even under these conditions you would have to be really unlucky to lose anything, electricity companies go to enormous lengths to protect their infrastructure with filter banks, surge arresters, protection relays etc on both the HV and LV side
lachen.gif
I've got news for you; the power companies' surge protection, filtering , etc. are more about protecting the power companies' grid, not the consumers. I should know, I worked for one for 32 years.
 

·
Overclocked
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

lachen.gif
I've got news for you; the power companies' surge protection, filtering , etc. are more about protecting the power companies' grid, not the consumers. I should know, I worked for one for 32 years.
That maybe true where you live but it isn't here in Australia, I work for ABB and we supply and manufacture these products for supply authorities to protect both them (from being sued) and the general power consumer. A few years ago we had some severe what we call bush fires (wild fires) which was caused by supply authorities not maintaining their infrastructure, since then a lot has changed for the better, at least it has here.
 

·
Senioritis Member
Joined
·
8,360 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scracy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

lachen.gif
I've got news for you; the power companies' surge protection, filtering , etc. are more about protecting the power companies' grid, not the consumers. I should know, I worked for one for 32 years.
That maybe true where you live but it isn't here in Australia, I work for ABB and we supply and manufacture these products for supply authorities to protect both them (from being sued) and the general power consumer. A few years ago we had some severe what we call bush fires (wild fires) which was caused by supply authorities not maintaining their infrastructure, since then a lot has changed for the better, at least it has here.
You just keep telling yourself that.

The power companies anywhere are more concerned about avoiding getting sued and having to repair their infrastructure than they are about the consumers. The power companies could install surge arrestors at each service "drop" but the most surge protection you will ever see are lightning arrestors protecting the power lines on the grid. they still allow one heck of spike to go down the line after shunting off the worst of a lightning strike (it wasn't unusual for the lightning arrestors to blow up from a strike, leaving the line unprotected from the next strike that sometimes follows a first strike). Every protective product I saw from ABB was all about protecting the power company infrastructure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,536 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by scracy View Post

lol
smile.gif
Personally never worried about a UPS since nothing I do on my P.C is so critical that I might lose days of work without it due to power outage, most contents insurance policies here in Australia cover you for damage caused by a power surge so its an option for an upgrade if something did happen.
I would like to know how you prove that it was a company fault
smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

You just keep telling yourself that.

The power companies anywhere are more concerned about avoiding getting sued and having to repair their infrastructure than they are about the consumers. The power companies could install surge arrestors at each service "drop" but the most surge protection you will ever see are lightning arrestors protecting the power lines on the grid. they still allow one heck of spike to go down the line after shunting off the worst of a lightning strike (it wasn't unusual for the lightning arrestors to blow up from a strike, leaving the line unprotected from the next strike that sometimes follows a first strike). Every protective product I saw from ABB was all about protecting the power company infrastructure.
never doubt about it but thanks for sharing your experience.

Mod edit: Please use the edit button or multi quote button instead of double posting.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top