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CPPC / CPPC PC

  • Enabled (motherboard defaults, not tested)

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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been testing the AMD CPPC functions on my 5900X and observed odd behaviour. I'm using PBO with stock power limits, scalar 1x, no additional MHz, and a negative per-core curve.

With CPPC + CPPC PC enabled (default on all 500 boards), Windows 10 & 11 scheduler seems allocate to load the top four cores with two much, resulting in less performance overall.

With CPPC + CPPC PC disabled, all-core performance (on my chip) increases by ~7-9% in AVX2 workloads and ~6% in SSE4.x workloads. In few-core workloads, especially single
-core - performance in benchmarks decreases by ~1.5% (e.g Cinebench R23 score goes from 1608 to 1586) which is just outside the margin of error.

Clock speeds (reported and effective) remain the same (CCD0 = 4,950 max boost each core, CCD1 = 4,650 max boost each core).

However, I notice more consistent frame times and a more responsive system. Starting up Photoshop (one core) is faster despite the lower benchmark score.

In theory it's meant to help Windows know which cores to assign tasks to first, but it doesn't seem that great (I blame Windows Scheduler).

What's your view on CPPC and do you have it enabled or disabled?
 

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well on Windows11 you need the AMD CPPC fix chipset driver or the newer chipset driver ( MSI one)

Last time I tried windows 10 21h1 the CPPC boosting was broken but AMD only said Windows 11 was affected.
I updated to Windows 11 after, so I can't say if their chipset drivers also fixed Windows 10 new builds.

If you want to guarantee the proper assignments based on CPPC rankings these are the min settings


Min Unpack cores should be around 50% not 100%
Product Azure Font Rectangle Screenshot


Short thread scheduling should be set to performant cores and not Auto
Product Azure Rectangle Font Software


Boost mode, anything Aggressive+ are for CPPC
Product Rectangle Azure Font Screenshot
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well on Windows11 you need the AMD CPPC fix chipset driver or the newer chipset driver ( MSI one)

Last time I tried windows 10 21h1 the CPPC boosting was broken but AMD only said Windows 11 was affected.
I updated to Windows 11 after, so I can't say if their chipset drivers also fixed Windows 10 new builds.

If you want to guarantee the proper assignments based on CPPC rankings these are the min settings

Min Unpack cores should be around 50% not 100%
View attachment 2534694

Short thread scheduling should be set to performant cores and not Auto
View attachment 2534695

Boost mode, anything Aggressive+ are for CPPC
View attachment 2534696
  • For Windows 11, there have been three chipset drivers - the first was the fix that made things worse, then the second was the actual fix, and finally the third released a week ago fixes a GPIO power management feature. Technically there have been two issued by AMD as Asus released one not available on AMD's website but with updated drivers.
  • Whilst I appreciate the detailed screenshots, AMD says the 5000 series should use the default Windows Balanced Power Plan and AMD's drivers no longer install custom power plans (5000 only). I would have liked to try out the highly customised Ryzen plans as they look like they offer fine control within Windows which is great, but I can't install or import them and AMD support confirmed that only the Windows (10/11) plans should be used on Zen 3.
 

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  • For Windows 11, there have been three chipset drivers - the first was the fix that made things worse, then the second was the actual fix, and finally the third released a week ago fixes a GPIO power management feature. Technically there have been two issued by AMD as Asus released one not available on AMD's website but with updated drivers.
  • Whilst I appreciate the detailed screenshots, AMD says the 5000 series should use the default Windows Balanced Power Plan and AMD's drivers no longer install custom power plans (5000 only). I would have liked to try out the highly customised Ryzen plans as they look like they offer fine control within Windows which is great, but I can't install or import them and AMD support confirmed that only the Windows (10/11) plans should be used on Zen 3.
AMD.com 3.10.08.506 is the original CPPC fix
* Update processor power management settings for Windows 11 release

from MSI, 3.10.22.706 has further fixes for CPPC
* Update processor power management settings for performance and power improvement

from Asus, 3.11.17.521
This offers to update some drivers, is this the GPIO power management you're referring to ?
*edit never mind, this doesn't have anything newer vs MSI + no Windows11 fixes
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
AMD.com 3.10.08.506 is the original CPPC fix
* Update processor power management settings for Windows 11 release

from MSI, 3.10.22.706 has further fixes for CPPC
* Update processor power management settings for performance and power improvement

from Asus, 3.11.17.521
This offers to update some drivers, is this the GPIO power management you're referring to ?
*edit never mind, this doesn't have anything newer vs MSI + no Windows11 fixes
I have a different one that ends in 4 (from memory), but on phone so can't check. If I still have the zips, will report back with versions. I installed Win 11 fresh on new hardware, which may have made a difference (though I should expect to see the other AMD one still available to all to download).
 

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The title should mention windows 11, because the issue you describe is similar to what Zen2 early adopters have experienced on windows 10 until it was fixed.
Regarding the latter, CPPC works fine with it. Just don't use powerplans and make sure the Windows Balanced one is selected.
 

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The logic behind disabling CPPC and CPPC-PC to get better performance in games makes a lot of sense. And there is a thread I found on Reddit a few days ago and also did a search and saw many others getting better performance with those disabled. However! I have been playing Borderlands 3 for the past week or so, so I figured I'd test the theory since I do get some occasional stutters in game.

Results? The game actually seemed to run a bit worse. I also noticed that when Alt-tabbing to the desktop to use a browser to search for something, the browser was extremely laggy and slow. So not only did I seem to lose performance in game, but in browsers on my desktop while the game was running in the background as well. Re-enabling those two in the BIOS brought the performance back. I have also just used RyzenMaster to enable Auto-OC (which also enables PBO), as well as disabling C-States and PSS so that the cores do not downclock, and the performance in Borderlands 3 seems to have smoothed out mostly.

Not sure if it matters, but I'm running a year-old BIOS and chipset drivers. I think the AMD chipset drivers auto-update since I see them keep trying to check for updates. This is also on latest Windows 10. I would love to have CPPC and CPPC-PC disabled with the proper performance. Windows should absolutely not ever be placing any processes on any core that is running a game.

I should actually disable CPPC and CPPC-PC again since I have the processors not downclocking, and see if that brings the browser performance back on the desktop while the game is running.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Alt-tabbing to the desktop to use a browser to search for something, the browser was extremely laggy and slow.
What's your overclock/undervolt? That sounds very typical of too little voltage/borderline stable overclock/undervolt.
 

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  • For Windows 11, there have been three chipset drivers - the first was the fix that made things worse, then the second was the actual fix, and finally the third released a week ago fixes a GPIO power management feature. Technically there have been two issued by AMD as Asus released one not available on AMD's website but with updated drivers.
  • Whilst I appreciate the detailed screenshots, AMD says the 5000 series should use the default Windows Balanced Power Plan and AMD's drivers no longer install custom power plans (5000 only). I would have liked to try out the highly customised Ryzen plans as they look like they offer fine control within Windows which is great, but I can't install or import them and AMD support confirmed that only the Windows (10/11) plans should be used on Zen 3.
That chipset update reconfigures the Windows Balanced power plan
 

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How so? I wish AMD published some information.
With the exception of the change to core parking it modified it to reflect what's shown in the screenshots above
 

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Can you please define the 'ish' part? :p
Certainly

AMD stated that you no longer have to run their "custom" power plans in the Windows OS (this means there's no need to install/select "AMD Ryzen Balanced" as "Balanced" will suffice)

Yet, looking at Microsoft's publications regarding hardware development (with particular attention to processor performance/power management), you'll find that it's normal for organizations such as AMD to publish updates that modify some elements of the OS power plans in order to better accommodate their hardware

So the "ish" portion refers to the fact that they changed their minds on the "Balanced" plan being sufficient "out-of-the-box" due to the scheduling issues that brought about complaints of reduced performance from consumers and AMD subsequently issued an update with "fixes" that modified the power plan
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Certainly

AMD stated that you no longer have to run their "custom" power plans in the Windows OS (this means there's no need to install/select "AMD Ryzen Balanced" as "Balanced" will suffice)

Yet, looking at Microsoft's publications regarding hardware development (with particular attention to processor performance/power management), you'll find that it's normal for organizations such as AMD to publish updates that modify some elements of the OS power plans in order to better accommodate their hardware

So the "ish" portion refers to the fact that they changed their minds on the "Balanced" plan being sufficient "out-of-the-box" due to the scheduling issues that brought about complaints of reduced performance from consumers and AMD subsequently issued an update with "fixes" that modified the power plan
Ah, I see. With being new to Ryzen my only experience is using the default Windows power plans. The only 'AMD' power plans I've seen are in screenshots.

So, essentially the update changed some of the (generally hidden) parameters for the Windows Balanced power plan? The only information I read about the update was that it hid power management options for some system devices.
 
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