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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All the hype related to AMD ZEN procesor. Feel free to post all Your thoughts about AMD upcoming CPU.
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So in 2016 we get 8 cores of adrenaline bulit on FinFET high performance node, all this with SMT, and 220W ultra high end APU!

Can it get any better?
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Well I am not as hyped as you are, but I am definitely looking forward to it.
Sadly if the past is any indication of hype + AMD CPUs then we are in for a big disappointment, but lets wait and see.

The good thing is I am in for a new rig in 2016 with :

- DDR4
- 1TB SSD
- New CPU (AMD Zen/Intel whatever)
- 16/14nm GPU

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@ ur comment...

wont mind a super APU with HBM @ 350-400w TDP tho.
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There are some points needing clarification, it seems: how is Zen delivering two separate memory interfaces - one for cpu, ddr4, and another for gpu, hbm - on the same die? It has to be a pretty huge die and there have been several reports mentioning the difficulties of upscaling the die sizes in 14nm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

There are some points needing clarification, it seems: how is Zen delivering two seperate memory interfaces - one for cpu, ddr4, and another for gpu, hbm - on the same die? It has to be a pretty huge die and there have been several reports mentioning the difficulties of upscaling the die sizes in 14nm.
It could be MCM, but knowing AMD, APU's are ment to be a monolitic die.
Also.. they do a totaly new architecture on a new proces node.

Where did You get this information anyway?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro3ootector View Post

It could be MCM, but knowing AMD, APU's are ment to be a monolitic die.
Also.. they do a totaly new architecture on a new proces node.

Where did You get this information anyway?
You can see it in the first die sketch via Fudzilla, the black blocks at the bottom are the HBM interfaces to the gpu while the entire right side is the interface to the cpu. Btw, I noticed this since a similar contemporary topic was started in a forum of my region.
 

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I find it odd that they still list and act like they are pushing HSA/huma... yet the chip is going to have 2 different memory pools for GPU and CPU... wasn't the whole point to have them sharing one?
 

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In order Zen to avoid fiasco, it has to feature 32 threads, no matter in what configuration.

Does anyone know whether AMD released recently some details on core count?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanmayce View Post

In order Zen to avoid fiasco, it has to feature 32 threads, no matter in what configuration.

Does anyone know whether AMD released recently some details on core count?
Nope. It was Just a rumor that they are releasing 32 core ( 64 tread ) Opterons. It might be true, but its still a rumor. So far as i know everything will be connected through Coherent Fabric bus. This allows for quick data transfer for all CPU and other device. For servers this is going to be a performance per wat competition, and it more or less depends how good is node from Samsung. It's comparable to Intels. AMD has used all the power saving tech in Carrizo design they had and it's still 28nm ( and it can give intel offerings some fair competition) .
ZEN is one of the most exiting CPU relase AMD has ever made. As an AMD fan im sure thay can do it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanmayce View Post

In order Zen to avoid fiasco, it has to feature 32 threads, no matter in what configuration.

Does anyone know whether AMD released recently some details on core count?
Zen to avoid fiasco, needs the famous 40% IPC increase and high enough clocks. Plus competitive price. Suppose they do get 32 threads, but can only run low clocks. How are the 32 threads going to be a game changer? Certainly not for gamers! They will be useful for people who do video encoding or are foldaholics, but for this crowd, even FX is a success...

AMD needs this time to cater the more "ordinary" crowd, that uses less cores, but needs high single thread performance.
 

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>Nope.
Didn't get why 'nope', 16 cores are the bare minimum, in my eyes, these days and we are talking 2016 even 2017, that's why 16 is the nasty limitation now simply because AMD is fooling around for too long, the moment AMD releases 32 threaded CPU, Intel will be forced to answer speedwise&pricewise which is nice for all users. To me, 5960x appears weak for many heavy textual processing tasks.

>ZEN is one of the most exiting CPU relase AMD has ever made.
Your English is worse than mine, 'has made' implies factuality i.e. the accent is on the completion/perfectness of the action, therefore 'has made' has to be 'is going to make'.

>As an AMD fan im sure thay cad do it.
Sure, I want to buy Zen, I need a powerhouse not some leftover salad i.e. mediocre flip-flopper.

>Suppose they do get 32 threads, but can only run low clocks. How are the 32 threads going to be a game changer? Certainly not for gamers!
You are only partially right, the mere existence of a powerful mainstream, and mostly affordable CPU, will change the programming schemes in game development, if you need good AI and thousands of units acting in a amusing manner you need ... threads to compute their behavior.
As for the current situation where most games use merely up to 4 threads, it is a shame - this is not the future.

>AMD needs this time to cater the more "ordinary" crowd, that uses less cores, but needs high single thread performance.
Yes, this also, but this CPU won't be called Zen, as far as I know, Zen is all about offering CLUSTER-type architecture comprised of many, 16 as minimum, Silvermont-like cores.
If I see Zen with, say, 8 cores, I won't buy it even if it is few dollars price-tagged, there are already stupid-smart-phones with 8 cores. PREPOSTEROUS!
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Mobile gadgets will outtech the desktop COMPUTERS!
I need to crunch 50GB of English texts in seconds and desktop world offers only expensive inadequate to the hi-needs weak CPUs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanmayce View Post

>Nope.

You are only partially right, the mere existence of a powerful mainstream, and mostly affordable CPU, will change the programming schemes in game development, if you need good AI and thousands of units acting in a amusing manner you need ... threads to compute their behavior.
As for the current situation where most games use merely up to 4 threads, it is a shame - this is not the future.
I agree it's not the future, but 32 threads isn't the near future either. Because Intel is the one that sets the trend. Game developers think of what PCs the people use. The more people can run their game, the more likely they will get $$$. Since Intel's share is much bigger, the devs first think of what Intel users are running. This is also why it took so long to see games using more than 4 threads. Because Intel took her sweet time before increasing the core count to 8. And game devs still can't ignore how many people just bought i3s or i5s.

Quote:
>AMD needs this time to cater the more "ordinary" crowd, that uses less cores, but needs high single thread performance.
If I see Zen with, say, 8 cores, I won't buy it even if it is few dollars price-tagged, there are already stupid-smart-phones with 8 cores. PREPOSTEROUS!
mad.gif
Mobile gadgets will outtech the desktop COMPUTERS!
I need to crunch 50GB of English texts in seconds and desktop world offers only expensive inadequate to the hi-needs weak CPUs.
I see where you 're coming from and i understand... Personally i am more than fine with FX, if i upgrade, it will be Zen+. Unless they make Zen DDR3 compatible and it gives a big boost in multithreading compared to FX, in which case i may build one Zen rig. But yeah, for people who already use fully 8 cores, i can see why you want more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

I agree it's not the future, but 32 threads isn't the near future either. Because Intel is the one that sets the trend. Game developers think of what PCs the people use. The more people can run their game, the more likely they will get $$$. Since Intel's share is much bigger, the devs first think of what Intel users are running. This is also why it took so long to see games using more than 4 threads. Because Intel took her sweet time before increasing the core count to 8. And game devs still can't ignore how many people just bought i3s or i5s.
I see where you 're coming from and i understand... Personally i am more than fine with FX, if i upgrade, it will be Zen+. Unless they make Zen DDR3 compatible and it gives a big boost in multithreading compared to FX, in which case i may build one Zen rig. But yeah, for people who already use fully 8 cores, i can see why you want more.
I think You're getting wrong idea of ZEN 16 CPU core APU, and 32 CPU Core opteron.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

I am referring to Sanmayce's desire to have 32 threads:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1579520/zen-hyper-thread#post_24578098
Yeah, I don't see it happening either. AMD already tried to push industry standard to multicore/multithread, but we already saw how the IPC weakness of Bulldozer coupled with lazy software developers severely gimped the Bulldozer series. BUT, with Intel finally going many core, the developers are finally not being lazy, and finally using the hardware available. I (personally) feel like AMD's Bulldozer/Piledriver series chips are aging much more gracefully then Intel's 3 year old offerings.

So now we're seeing both companies moving back towards the center of good IPC with more cores now. I definitely expect AMD to achieve parity in 2017/18 with a slight edge going to either company in the release cycles.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

Yeah, I don't see it happening either. AMD already tried to push industry standard to multicore/multithread, but we already saw how the IPC weakness of Bulldozer coupled with lazy software developers severely gimped the Bulldozer series.
While I'll agree on the developer front, if you think that the latest Construction cores have problems with "IPC" then you are mistaken.

Even on legacy fp-based benchmarks like Cinebench R10, Excavator can hang with Haswell in overall performance, assuming thread count and clockspeed are equal. The problem AMD has now is that they are unable or unwilling to release XV processors with enough modules and enough clockspeed to produce a truly competitive product. The modular design is not ideal for software which is incapable of utilizing all modules simultaneously (read: the dreaded "single threaded performance" metric), but it does quite well on software that can scale well with multiple cores/processors. Or at least it would, if AMD would release XV in anything but 2m format.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrlordx View Post

While I'll agree on the developer front, if you think that the latest Construction cores have problems with "IPC" then you are mistaken.

Even on legacy fp-based benchmarks like Cinebench R10, Excavator can hang with Haswell in overall performance, assuming thread count and clockspeed are equal. The problem AMD has now is that they are unable or unwilling to release XV processors with enough modules and enough clockspeed to produce a truly competitive product. The modular design is not ideal for software which is incapable of utilizing all modules simultaneously (read: the dreaded "single threaded performance" metric), but it does quite well on software that can scale well with multiple cores/processors. Or at least it would, if AMD would release XV in anything but 2m format.
I guess adapting Excavator to IBM's process would be too expensive.
 

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Can't wait for a mainstream 6 core/12 hyperthreaded cpu. Downgraded from G3258 to phenom ii x4 965 and performance slightly infuriated me in older games. If Zen is comparable to sandy bridge per clock wise then I'll be able to play all the old games I've always ever wanted and not got screwed too hard in newer games.
 
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