Low fps in all games with HD7950 @1000mhz clock

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Hey guys. Sorry if I've done anything wrong, I'm new here. I was looking for some kind of assistance with a low FPS problem I've been facing with this card. I by no means get 'unplayable' FPS although I definitely don't have the performance I deserve for the $300 I paid. I'll list one example that you may possibly be able to assist with. Today I bought Saints Row the Third, expecting an average FPS of 50-60 on ultra settings, as people have achieved all over youtube with this card. However, I average around 40-45, low being 30 and high being around 70 (rarely). I was lead to believe that this may be a CPU bottleneck as when I turn the setting down to low, I can still not maintain 60FPS at all; and I also have a fairly cheap processor (i3-2120 @ 3.30Ghz). However I ran task manager on my second monitor whilst playing and not a single core was at 100%. My overall/ average GPU usage (as monitored by Radeon Pro) was around 70%, never exceeding 85%. So this rules out a GPU bottleneck. My ram usage was around 50% so this rules out a RAM bottleneck. What else could it be?
A VERY important point is that I am using a SEPARATE power supply for my GPU (a generic 450w power supply, which does NOT have the sufficient amps for the card) although I've used this power supply for a while and had no problems (although when I push the powertune/clock setting up, my display crashes and a hard reset is required). I am using this PSU as I have yet to buy a new one, and I figured that because it is dedicated to the GPU and is not sharing any power with any other components, it should suffice - am I very wrong? I also LOCKED the GPU core at 1000mhz and monitored it during gameplay, it did NOT leave this clock speed. Also, temps are in the normal range.. 50-60 or so degrees. Any ideas? Thank you !!

MY SPECS:
i3-2120 @ 3.30ghz
6GB Ram (2.99 usable due to 32 bit operating system - getting 64 bit soon)
Powercolor HD7950
1x2 TB HDD
1x1 TB HDD
500w generic PSU powering all components of PC apart from GPU which is powered by a 450w generic PSU.
Windows Ultimate 32 bit

I will include a pic of my CPU and RAM usage as screen captured while my FPS was at 45. (the average fps i experience

)

daguardian · Jul 3, 2013

I think, just briefly reading this post and then looking at specs at seeing an i3, that your lower than expected FPS can directly be attributed solely to your lack of cpu power.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

I was thinking this too, although look at the screenshot of my cpu usage. Not one single core is hitting the roof... doesn't this rule out a CPU bottleneck?

Collins00 · Jul 3, 2013

Yea your two REAL cores are not far off maxing out, the other two are just HT can't really call them cores, try disabling HT to see if that makes a difference. Sorry the PSU probably is a big factor actually, what speed is your ram also?

akbisw · Jul 3, 2013

Use gpu-Z to monitor the GPU load memory, core clocks, gpu % utilization. If all those check out then move onto the cpu. I'm thinking the gpu is not being utilized properly. your i3 is not a bad chip for gaming. better than a lot of amd processors in its days.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collins00

Yea your two REAL cores are not far off maxing out, the other two are just HT can't really call them cores, try disabling HT to see if that makes a difference. Sorry the PSU probably is a big factor actually, what speed is your ram also?

Hmm, ok thanks for that. I'll disable HT and post results. Not good to hear about the PSU because it's $90 I'll be taking out of my i5 money which I'll have to make again. And my ram isn't fast - 1333mhz DDR3 but to my knowledge it's the fastest my mobo supports.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by akbisw

Use gpu-Z to monitor the GPU load memory, core clocks, gpu % utilization. If all those check out then move onto the cpu. I'm thinking the gpu is not being utilized properly. your i3 is not a bad chip for gaming. better than a lot of amd processors in its days.

I've done this. Here's some pics, all taken at the same time, showing FPS, GPU usage, VRAM usage and GPU core and memory clocks. Also, RAM and CPU usage (excuse the black bars my second monitor is an old CRT i had lying around.)
It should also be noted that my primary monitor is only a resolution of 1280x1024! I'd hate to see what'd happen if I got a 1080p monitor!

akbisw · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by antsc096

I've done this. Here's some pics, all taken at the same time, showing FPS, GPU usage, VRAM usage and GPU core and memory clocks. Also, RAM and CPU usage (excuse the black bars my second monitor is an old CRT i had lying around.)
It should also be noted that my primary monitor is only a resolution of 1280x1024! I'd hate to see what'd happen if I got a 1080p monitor!

You see the problem? Your gpu utilization is 40%! Thats 400mhz....instead of 1ghz clock it is supposed to run at. I'd try underclocking and undervolting the gpu. Also lower the gpu memory clocks back to stock.

PS if thats GTA try a different game. GTA doesnt like newer graphics cards

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by akbisw

You see the problem? Your gpu utilization is 40%! Thats 400mhz....instead of 1ghz clock it is supposed to run at. I'd try underclocking and undervolting the gpu. Also lower the gpu memory clocks back to stock.

PS if thats GTA try a different game. GTA doesnt like newer graphics cards

I was led to believe that the reason it's only using 40% is because it only needs to use 40% at that point in time.. am I wrong? I didn't think it meant that it was running at 40% of clock speeds.. that would mean that when I have 0% CPU usage my CPU is running at 0ghz which couldn't be correct.. Sorry if I'm wrong. Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I'll go try that now. Also I noticed that when my FPS drops my cpu usage actually DECREASES... and when I go inside for example, and am running at 60fps, my cpu usage increases! Isn't that backwards?
Also, the game is Saints Row The Third, which I've seen running at an avg of 55 fps on youtube at 1080p.
Thanks

akbisw · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by antsc096

I was led to believe that the reason it's only using 40% is because it only needs to use 40% at that point in time.. am I wrong? I didn't think it meant that it was running at 40% of clock speeds.. that would mean that when I have 0% CPU usage my CPU is running at 0ghz which couldn't be correct.. Sorry if I'm wrong. Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I'll go try that now. Also I noticed that when my FPS drops my cpu usage actually DECREASES... and when I go inside for example, and am running at 60fps, my cpu usage increases! Isn't that backwards?
Also, the game is Saints Row The Third, which I've seen running at an avg of 55 fps on youtube at 1080p.
Thanks

Usually GPU usage is around 90-99% when you play a game. If its lower then Gpu is not being utilized fully. I played that game on 1080p with a 6950 and I got around 50 frames. I don't quite remember the settings. With your setup you should easily be able to play 1080p. 7950 is one mighty card. If its anythimg less then something is not right. You are using afterburner for those onscreen usage details right?

iMica · Jul 3, 2013

Saints row 3 is pretty cpu heavy I would think with all the junk going on. Most likely the i3 slowing you down, espically if your at 1280x1024

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by akbisw

Usually GPU usage is around 90-99% when you play a game. If its lower then Gpu is not being utilized fully. I played that game on 1080p with a 6950 and I got around 50 frames. I don't quite remember the settings. With your setup you should easily be able to play 1080p. 7950 is one mighty card. If its anythimg less then something is not right. You are using afterburner for those onscreen usage details right?

Ahhh, I see. I wonder if my GPU is not getting enough power... do you think that could be causing it to not be utilized correctly? I'm using Radeon Pro.

HeadlessKnight · Jul 3, 2013

Determine GPU Usage by using MSI Afterburner, it is much more accurate than Task Manager and will make your life easier, it will also show you everything you would like to know about your GPU. (I didn't try Radeon Pro for this stuff and don't know how good it is)
But I don't trust Task Manager Utilization .
Run your game and leave MSI Afterburner at the background, then look at the chart. if you get 90%+ GPU Usage then it is the GPU that is being pushed by the game. If the GPU Usage is low then you definitely have a CPU Bottleneck.

http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

akbisw · Jul 3, 2013

The cpu is not getting pushed either. My theory would be that the gpu is not getting pushed, hence they cpu is not pushing itself either since its getting gpu bottlenecked. I could be wrong that goes without saying

Why dont you try running the gpu off the 500w power supply with the cpu. I really dont think your system is using more than 300 watts. that i3 is really efficient. and that 7950 is about 200 watts at 100%. Or you could try switching the power supply. Get the 500w to run the gpu and use the 450w on the cpu.

akbisw · Jul 3, 2013

Also i3 is not as bad as most poeple make it out to be. its the best dual core cpu out there.

its running metro 2033 at 1080p with 60avg frames paired with a gtx 480.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-cpu-core-i3-2100-phenom-ii-x6-1075t,2859-3.html

There are multiple videos of SR3 playing on an i3 on 1080p. It can definitely handle the game.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadlessKnight

Determine GPU Usage by using MSI Afterburner, it is much more accurate than Task Manager and will make your life easier, it will also show you everything you would like to know about your GPU. (I didn't try Radeon Pro for this stuff and don't know how good it is)
But I don't trust Task Manager Utilization .
Run your game and leave MSI Afterburner at the background, then look at the chart. if you get 90%+ GPU Usage then it is the GPU that is being pushed by the game. If the GPU Usage is low then you definitely have a CPU Bottleneck.

http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

Here, these 2 screenshots were taken at the same time (I just couldnt fit all info in the one screenshot) as you can see, my game is at 46FPS and my GPU usage is in the 40s. ***.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by akbisw

The cpu is not getting pushed either. My theory would be that the gpu is not getting pushed, hence they cpu is not pushing itself either since its getting gpu bottlenecked. I could be wrong that goes without saying

Why dont you try running the gpu off the 500w power supply with the cpu. I really dont think your system is using more than 300 watts. that i3 is really efficient. and that 7950 is about 200 watts at 100%. Or you could try switching the power supply. Get the 500w to run the gpu and use the 450w on the cpu.

I was thinking about doing this although the big problem is my 500w PSU is a generic one, and only has ONE 12v rail, which is 17amps. That isn't close to what the card requires so I'm very skeptical about trusting that PSU alone to power my entire system. I might try switching the PSUs around as you said. Just haven't got around to it.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by akbisw

Also i3 is not as bad as most poeple make it out to be. its the best dual core cpu out there.

its running metro 2033 at 1080p with 60avg frames paired with a gtx 480.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-cpu-core-i3-2100-phenom-ii-x6-1075t,2859-3.html

There are multiple videos of SR3 playing on an i3 on 1080p. It can definitely handle the game.

I thought this was the case. I'm sure an i3 is sufficient to spit out 60 frames in this game. Sure, it'd struggle with GTA 4 or BF3 multiplayer but this game it should be fine; at least I thought anyway.

HeadlessKnight · Jul 3, 2013

I think the i3 2120 is not fast enough to push the 7950 at that resolution.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadlessKnight

I think the i3 2120 is not fast enough to push the 7950 at that resolution.

If this processor can achieve 60fps at 1080p (as seen on YouTube) then it is capable of the same at 1280x1024. You can't surely be saying that if I was to play at a larger resolution, my FPS would INCREASE?

akbisw · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by antsc096

Here, these 2 screenshots were taken at the same time (I just couldnt fit all info in the one screenshot) as you can see, my game is at 46FPS and my GPU usage is in the 40s. ***.

Definitely a gpu issue. The memory dropped back down to 1270 instead of 1450, Gpu clocks dropped to 878mhz. Plus there is **** ton of fluctuation. I'd highly recommend buying a good 500/600w gold psu. enough to handle crossfire or sli. make sure the PSU you buy is haswell compatible too.

HeadlessKnight · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by antsc096

If this processor can achieve 60fps at 1080p (as seen on YouTube) then it is capable of the same at 1280x1024. You can't surely be saying that if I was to play at a larger resolution, my FPS would INCREASE?

It might not increase, but possibly the fps can stay constant even at higher resolution when there is a CPU bottleneck. Also do you have the video where it shows 7950 getting 60 fps with the i3 ?
Quote:

Originally Posted by akbisw

Definitely a gpu issue. The memory dropped back down to 1270 instead of 1450, Gpu clocks dropped to 878mhz. Plus there is **** ton of fluctuation. I'd highly recommend buying a good 500/600w gold psu. enough to handle crossfire or sli. make sure the PSU you buy is haswell compatible too.

GPU clock dropped due to the low GPU usage and 0 power limit. if he maxed the power limit the card should run at a constant 1 GHz. But possibly the low GPU usage/ clock fluctuations due to the power supply not enough for the card.

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by akbisw

Definitely a gpu issue. The memory dropped back down to 1270 instead of 1450, Gpu clocks dropped to 878mhz. Plus there is **** ton of fluctuation. I'd highly recommend buying a good 500/600w gold psu. enough to handle crossfire or sli. make sure the PSU you buy is haswell compatible too.

Is a bad PSU capable of causing these fluctuations etc though? I just don't want to go forking out the cash on a PSU if it's not the central issue here. Thanks a tonne for your help by the way.

DaveLT · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by antsc096

Is a bad PSU capable of causing these fluctuations etc though? I just don't want to go forking out the cash on a PSU if it's not the central issue here. Thanks a tonne for your help by the way.

Could be. If you live in the states look no further
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207013
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182068 <- REAL gold!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182262 <- If you want modular
450W will even suit you (capstone) but frankly, don't.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182261 <- Modular 450W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 <- Non modular 450W

antsc096 · Jul 3, 2013

When I push the power limit up to 20, my screen turns a random colour when I game for a few mins. Only fix is restarting the PC. Also, during the few mins that the game DOES run, there is no FPS increase. It does sound like a power supply issue when I think about it more and more.

HeadlessKnight · Jul 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by antsc096

When I push the power limit up to 20, my screen turns a random colour when I game for a few mins. Only fix is restarting the PC. Also, during the few mins that the game DOES run, there is no FPS increase. It does sound like a power supply issue when I think about it more and more.

This indicates a bad power supply. or unstable overclock.

Low fps in all games with HD7950 @1000mhz clock

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