[AMD/YT] AMD Mantle Technical Deep Dive - APU13 Event - PC Perspective

Death Saved · Nov 13, 2013

Cant really post a source as you would need to register on APU365 afterwards you will recive an email with a link.

If you register you can view it on demand.

Will allow their game to properly utilize more than 3 cores.

Explicit control of GPU queues and synchronization to implement your own alternate from rendering, and exotic things like a workstation rendering with 4-8 GPU's which would give you around 20-40 TFlops in one machine while evenly spreading the workload among them, also allow low-latency rendering which would be very useful for VR.

Command buffer prediction & flow control and writing.

Shaders can select resources to use without relying on CPU binding.

Will work on both W7 & W8.

Johan wants to see Mantle on Linux, also he said that they are building an opencl/gl extension in FB3.

In mobile Mantle will let SoC vendors will let them leap frog GL4 and DX11.

MANTLE IS NOT TIED TO GCN.

Code looks closer to PS4 API than DX11.

They have been working on it for around 2 months.

Garden Warfare will utilize mantle out of the box with a focus on APU's due to it being an "accessible title".

All FB3 games will utilize mantle.

All done Q_Q.

HanSomPa · Nov 13, 2013

ALL FB3 games will use Mantle? Pretty big win for AMD.

SectorNine50 · Nov 13, 2013

I'd like to see Mantle and Frostbite on Linux, too!

6steven9 · Nov 13, 2013

hmmm so if it's not tied to GCN that mean Nvidia if they wanted and IF mantle shows any improvment to games can adopt it? Not that they will.....

Clukos · Nov 13, 2013

It sounds great, now can you release the Mantle update for Bf4 please?

benben84 · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6steven9

hmmm so if it's not tied to GCN that mean Nvidia if they wanted and IF mantle shows any improvment to games can adopt it? Not that they will.....

Honestly, from the sounds of things, they would be wise to do so.

Sheyster · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death Saved

They have been working on it for around 2 months.

That's reassuring... NOT.

Isn't this supposed to be released in a month?

.

nazarein · Nov 13, 2013

AMD said from the start it should be available on Nvidia later on, No one likes Direct X. cutting the middleman Microsoft out is good for everyone.

Ashuiegi · Nov 13, 2013

i would love to see nvidia being force to adopte mantle as industry standard

it would make my day , erm even my month i think

keikei · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clukos

It sounds great, now can you release the Mantle update for Bf4 please?

When Mantle was announced, AMD gave a release month of december...which is 2 weeks away. As of right now, its marketing until we see some benches.

Sheyster · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by nazarein

AMD said from the start it should be available on Nvidia later on, No one likes Direct X. cutting the middleman Microsoft out is good for everyone.

Microsoft is not the middleman, they're the main man. It's their kernel/OS last time I checked.

Fniz92 · Nov 13, 2013

Looks like it's time nVidia and AMD started exchanging technologies, win for everyone.

47 Knucklehead · Nov 13, 2013

So if Mantle isn't tied to GCN, then why did the AMD site say it was and that you needed a GCN enabled card to take advantage of it? Are they now saying that older AMD cards like the 6000 and 5000 series will support Mantle?

This pretty much sounds like Mantle is tied to GCN ...

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/pages/amd-unleashes-r9-2013oct07.aspx
Quote:

Based on AMD's award-winning Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture, the AMD Radeon R9 Series graphics cards receive a boost from Mantle1, an industry-acclaimed technology developed by AMD to enable today's top game developers to harness the GCN-powered cores of both PCs and consoles. Mantle delivers a streamlined development process and games enabled with Mantle will be able to speak the native language of the GCN architecture, benefiting from hardware optimization that unlocks revolutionary performance and image quality.

https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/383872285351739393
Quote:

@GnrlKhalid No. It is an API for the industry-standard GCN Architecture and its specific ISA, done at the request of game developers.

maarten12100 · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6steven9

hmmm so if it's not tied to GCN that mean Nvidia if they wanted and IF mantle shows any improvment to games can adopt it? Not that they will.....

They'll have to otherwise they get a disadvantage of needing an expensive cpu to run good compared to an GCN card on mantle games.

SectorNine50 · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheyster

Microsoft is not the middleman, they're the main man. It's their kernel/OS last time I checked.

DirectX is an API, which acts as a "middle-man," which is a Microsoft product. DirectX could be written for multiple platforms, but from the get-go it was designed to attract developers to develop exclusively on the Windows operating system.

Mantle has the potential to end this "monopoly" and allow developers to make true multi-platform titles (Linux, Mac, Windows, etc.).

It makes way more sense to me for Nvidia and AMD to manage the API than Microsoft or the OpenGL group.

AnnoyinDemon · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead

So if Mantle isn't tied to GCN, then why did the AMD site say it was and that you needed a GCN enabled card to take advantage of it? Are they now saying that older AMD cards like the 6000 and 5000 series will support Mantle?

Seems like it

Guess this wont be a JUST AMD feature then IF NV can take advantage of it too (if they wanted too).

Sheyster · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by SectorNine50

DirectX acts as a middle-man, which is a Microsoft product. DirectX could be written for multiple platforms, but from the get-go it was designed to attract developers to develop exclusively on the Windows operating system.

DirectX is a very core part of Windows now. Yes, it is an API, but it is very tightly integrated with the OS at this point. I would not call it Middleware/Middle Man/etc. It's been around for a very long time and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

It's amusing that so many have such high hopes for something that is essentially vaporware that has been hyped up by a hardware manufacturer. Call me skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it.

AnnoyinDemon · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead

This pretty much sounds like Mantle is tied to GCN ...

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/pages/amd-unleashes-r9-2013oct07.aspx
https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/383872285351739393

From other place ive seen only 7xxx series and hawaii cards have this but everyone here is saying it not bound to GCN. Where did everyone get its not bound the GCN from???

Its only going to be for GCN cards obviously, they stopped supporting the 5xxx/6xxx and they wouldnt want to give this to competitors to take advantage of this feature. Unless NV wants to share Phys X lol

Deadboy90 · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheyster

It's amusing that so many have such high hopes for something that is essentially vaporware that has been hyped up by a hardware manufacturer.

AMD claims it will improve FPS performance significantly in all Frostbite 3 games. Why would we assume they are lying?

Sheyster · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadboy90

AMD claims it will improve FPS performance significantly in all Frostbite 3 games. Why would we assume they are lying?

They also said Bulldozer was an intel killer...

Phaethon666 · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashuiegi

oh look someone with an overpriced card not happy again ,....., what a surprise , .....
it vaporware? yeah that exactly why all the biggest game publisher said they will support it and are already working on it , make it far more concrete then you are willing to accept.
how is G-sync any different ? from what i heard their first demo at blizzcon was pathetic , ......

To be fair to Nvidia, no amount of polishing of a Blizzard turd is going to make people really impressed...

Death Saved · Nov 13, 2013

From what i understand any GPU maker can utilize Mantle after modifying a small part of the code so that it will function properly, at the same time the majority of code does not need to be modified or changed except in an update to mantle itself, this also will apply to AMD when they create a new Architecture to replace GCN.

SectorNine50 · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheyster

DirectX is a very core part of Windows now. Yes, it is an API, but it is very tightly integrated with the OS at this point. I would not call it Middleware/Middle Man/etc. It's been around for a very long time and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

It's amusing that so many have such high hopes for something that is essentially vaporware that has been hyped up by a hardware manufacturer. Call me skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Now is the key word. They "integrated" it into the OS around the time of Vista, and by that they mean that the operating system it's self uses the DirectX API (Aero). DirectX is simply an API, and the interface that a programmer see's will be the same no matter what kind of changes have to be made to the back-end (that's the point of an API). DirectX simply became leverage for Microsoft to pry people off of older versions of Windows, and it worked (and continues to work)!

Why is that amusing? It'd be fantastic if we could get off of the DirectX monopoly. Plus, the fact that a company like DICE got behind it really highlights the potential they see, I don't personally think AMD has the funds available to bribe someone for "vaporware," particularly if it's not going to pay off. For some time now DICE has talked about wanting to develop on the Linux platform; Mantle may be the way they accomplish that.

zealord · Nov 13, 2013

benchmarking with mantle will get very "dangerous" for reviewers.

Tobiman · Nov 13, 2013

Make Nvidia pay big box for mantle. They weren't going to let AMD in on any of their proprietary toys.

Sheyster · Nov 13, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by SectorNine50

Why is that amusing? It'd be fantastic if we could get off of the DirectX monopoly.

The hype is what is amusing. AMD has admitted to working on Mantle for 2 months. The release date is slated for mid-December, right? That's in a month. Is it just me or is there something wrong with this development lifecycle?

At the end of the day, AMD is a hardware company. I'm going to be extremely skeptical when they announce an API and put 3 months worth of work into it, then release it for a big game like BF4. All of this does not add up. I will remain skeptical until we have something solid and quantifiable from them.

[AMD/YT] AMD Mantle Technical Deep Dive - APU13 Event - PC Perspective

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