wow epic. and this is just a game. supporters of cloud only based os, please take note

 

If they knew they did not have enough servers, why release the online part? Take another week or two and get the servers....

Am I wrong?

 

Setting up servers isn't really an overnight thing, regardless of how many $$$ you have.

 

The estimates were higher than they expected. They admit it, they are working to fix it, what more do people want?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakik09

Setting up servers isn't really an overnight thing, regardless of how many $$$ you have.

They had months of pre-order data, and another month between release and release. If they didn't have the time between then, then I'm a monkeys uncle. They should have had at least a rough estimate of how many additional ones they needed within 3 days of original release.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

Grand Theft Auto Online launches to widespread server issues

Really, is it that hard to say, "We have x players, so lets buy enough server space with these billion+ dollars they gave us so that everyone can log in the first month with no glitches."

This is why I hate most companies, because they can't seem to anticipate basic things like this. What makes me think I can trust them with the major decisions such as game design, etc, as well?

They even had several weeks to identify exactly how many players they would need servers for, and they still didn't buy enough beforehand!

Several weeks is not enough time to order, rack, config, and load up servers.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

They had months of pre-order data, and another month between release and release. If they didn't have the time between then, then I'm a monkeys uncle. They should have had at least a rough estimate of how many additional ones they needed within 3 days of original release.

Allocating and spinning up additional servers isn't that easy. Unless their internal IT is highly streamlined or are cloud-base architecture, it's not that easy.

It takes me 1-2 months to spin up a server from planning phase to completion. I have a few dozen pages of documentation and a few hundred steps that have to be completed by our SAs.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieHo

Several weeks is not enough time to order, rack, config, and load up servers.....

Then how come most games with these server issues at launch have them clear up within a month of release? Obviously they can do something in that time...

 

I will never buy the "we didn't know it would be this busy" crap ever. Especially with high end games. Rockstar, you screwed up somewhere and are too proud to admit it.

 

Not surprised from a company like Rockstar.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

Then how come most games with these server issues at launch have them clear up within a month of release? Obviously they can do something in that time...

Reasons off the top of my head:
1) Because like you said... they have some pre-release data. So they might be working on setting up additional servers even while the release is occurring.
2) Software patches may be occurring to improve game code.
3) Backend architecture tweaks may be happening. They may not need more servers but rather better use of servers.
4) Demand decreases after launch day.

#4 is important. Buying a server is a 5 year investment. Most companies purposely choose to order what they expect the peak load would be NOT during launch week. Spending an extra $100K on servers that only get used on first 3-4 days is a waste of money. A flexible internal cloud could absorb the impact but again... if they have one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRUSH

I will never buy the "we didn't know it would be this busy" crap ever. Especially with high end games. Rockstar, you screwed up somewhere and are too proud to admit it.

So how many servers should they have invested in?

 

The thing is that the difference between the insane traffic spike at launch and the average very shortly after is monumentally different. Running double the amount of servers or more for a few days or a week's time just doesn't make business sense. These companies know things will taper off extremely fast. The most cost-effective thing to do is to endure the backlash in the short-term, and then everything will be fine. All will be forgiven once things are running smoothly within a pretty short amount of time, and they know this.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

Then how come most games with these server issues at launch have them clear up within a month of release? Obviously they can do something in that time...

They must've underestimated the rush and got caught with their pants down on their beds made of gold.

Give them time, it's not often that R* gets to release an online game with this many users so it's not exactly the same case as with other game launches.

Interesting to note though is that I think that GTAV on the PS3 and 360 is somewhat a dry run for the upcoming release of it on PC(?), XBone, and PS4 where they can hopefully launch without the problems of the 360 and PS3 launches such as this server problem...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieHo

Reasons off the top of my head:
1) Because like you said... they have some pre-release data. So they might be working on setting up additional servers even while the release is occurring.
2) Software patches may be occurring to improve game code.
3) Backend architecture tweaks may be happening. They may not need more servers but rather better use of servers.
4) Demand decreases after launch day.

#4 is important. Buying a server is a 5 year investment. Most companies purposely choose to order what they expect the peak load would be NOT during launch week. Spending an extra $100K on servers that only get used on first 3-4 days is a waste of money. A flexible internal cloud could absorb the impact but again... if they have one.
So how many servers should they have invested in?

How ever many it takes. But I don't want to hear things like "it was unexpected". That's a lie.

 

What do you expect! Having millions of people trying to access their servers all at once. Sort of like a mini dos. It will crash anyone's server no matter how many you have and how prepared you are. Their website even crashed because of it. Right now it loads so slow for me at least. Trying to manage my crew at the moment it taking a long time cause of the website load issues.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRUSH

How ever many it takes. But I don't want to hear things like "it was unexpected". That's a lie.

*sigh*

The world does not work like that.

How many developers should we put on the project? AS MANY AS IT TAKES!
How much robots should we send to Mars? AS MANY AS IT TAKES!
How many soldiers should we send to war? AS MANY AS IT TAKES!

Sure, if there are unlimited resources, "as many as it takes" is fine. In reality, business/people have to plan, estimate, and project.

Servers cost money, time to setup, and resources to operate. All this mean is additional cost irrespective of how much they are making.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRUSH

How ever many it takes. But I don't want to hear things like "it was unexpected". That's a lie.

Pretty much this, this is what gets my goat the most, it was not unexpected in the least.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieHo

*sigh*

The world does not work like that.

How many developers should we put on the project? AS MANY AS IT TAKES!
How much robots should we send to Mars? AS MANY AS IT TAKES!
How many soldiers should we send to war? AS MANY AS IT TAKES!

Sure, if there are unlimited resources, "as many as it takes" is fine. In reality, business/people have to plan, estimate, and project.

Servers cost money, time to setup, and resources to operate. All this mean is additional cost irrespective of how much they are making.

"We made 1 billion dollars+ with this game, enough to redevelop it 4 times over." I think they can spare a few million on a few additional servers.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

Pretty much this, this is what gets my goat the most, it was not unexpected in the least.

What was expected? How many units did Rockstar expect to sell? "A lot" is not an answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

"We made 1 billion dollars+ with this game, enough to redevelop it 4 times over." I think they can spare a few million on a few additional servers.

....the world is not so simplistic. Have you ever setup an enterprise server?

What will they do with those millions of dollars of extra servers after launch date? Does their datacenters have the staff, power, and HVAC to accommodate the additional servers? What are the cost-models and ROI?

Have you ever worked on a multi-million dollar project?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieHo

Prove it? What was expected? How many units did Rockstar expect to sell?

Sure I'll prove it, you want to pay the several hundred dollar fee to get access to the professional statistics server websites though?

 

Its true they did know how many where expected but don't forget that was just in preorders alone. Servers take time to set-up. Don't forget all the after sales from day one. One week isn't enough time to setup all the servers they need to handle the load. Of course rockstar doesn't want to overspend and end up having too many servers that aren't going to be used down the road in a month or so.

Its all about profit and planning.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

Sure I'll prove it, you want to pay the several hundred dollar fee to get access to the professional statistics server websites though?

What would that prove? You need to get the internal emails from their economists doing sales projections if you want to prove anything.

Go setup an enterprise server.... and THEN tell me how easy it wasn't. You have to get approval, fillout forms, coordinate with a dozen other teams, order, rack, install OS, configure, install your software, test, test, reconfigure, test, test, etc.

 

No excuse, should have been ready

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoat333

If they knew they did not have enough servers, why release the online part? Take another week or two and get the servers....

Am I wrong?

It had already been promised for a certain date.

They decided that damage control was necessary and allowing players to play was greater than not being able to play.

They made the right choice, IMHO.

Enterprise racks are expensive and I'd call their estimate a little arrogant but, we'll have to see.

Bottom line, it was their decision to make and as a business, they made the right call.
Quote:

Originally Posted by cravinmild

No excuse, should have been ready

An understanding of business and/or a business owner, you sir, are not.

The best you can do is adapt. They are adapting, well.

How's that saying go? Oh: Adapt or die.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieHo

What would that prove? You need to get the internal emails from their economists doing sales projections if you want to prove anything.

Go setup an enterprise server.... and THEN tell me how easy it wasn't. You have to get approval, fillout forms, coordinate with a dozen other teams, order, rack, install OS, configure, install your software, test, test, reconfigure, test, test, etc.

So you admit it's impossible for me to prove then, so why did you ask me to prove it in the first place?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen00

So you admit it's impossible for me to prove then, so why did you ask me to prove it in the first place?

Being the person making the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

This discussion is a silly witch hunt. Duckie has already covered just about every point that can be made on the topic. Coming from someone who sets up enterprise servers as a career (myself as well) there isn't much else to be said.

Everyone also needs to remember that the marketing teams, business departments, IT staff, etc. are all different people so while one department might have known there would be some issues, it doesn't mean the whole company is trying to have some massive coverup. The statements are probably made by a PR team.