Isolating it to just the one GPU manufacturer will not excite game developers, AMD will have to work with all competitors to make this a success. IMHO

 

So that's it then...Mantle won't likely see the light of day unless AMD pays people to use it or they get a monopoly on the GPU market. There is no way any game maker is going to port their game into Direct X/OpenGL AND Mantle as well...maybe if it is really easy to do or something I guess. But they aren't going to do too much extra work for percentage of a percentage of their customer base unless that percentage of a percentage gets really large.

 

So we get x86-arch consoles, and now the PC can be programmed in a way similar to how the consoles are? Even though the Mantle is different from consoles, if the benefits or purpose is similar to how consoles are coded for, maybe we're looking at a lot more optimized multi-platform releases and PC ports. Hopefully.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacrossewacker

Main takeaway for me; Mantle will have 0 leverage from consoles and will only be useful for AMD GPU's. It's up to AMD and AMD alone to keep it afloat. PS4, nor the Xbox One, will be of any help to that cause.

What? It says that it gives the PC an API that is similar to the console one. In other words; console games almost instantly come with it. It probably takes very little time to make it work for the PC version as well. And loads of games are being developed for consoles. So it is a small step for developers. In other words; the ones that are in Nvidias backpocket will under no circumstances support it. AMDs partners will and the rest probably as well if the game has the console as primairy development platform.

 

Mantle = virtual boy = sega cd

it'll linger around for a while but never take off. One day, it'll have its own dedicated Wikipedia page explaining why it never took off.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacrossewacker

Main takeaway for me; Mantle will have 0 leverage from consoles and will only be useful for AMD GPU's. It's up to AMD and AMD alone to keep it afloat. PS4, nor the Xbox One, will be of any help to that cause.

Not sure how how AMD saying one thing leads you to take away nearly the polar opposite.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hukkel

What? It says that it gives the PC an API that is similar to the console one. In other words; console games almost instantly come with it. It probably takes very little time to make it work for the PC version as well. And loads of games are being developed for consoles. So it is a small step for developers. In other words; the ones that are in Nvidias backpocket will under no circumstances support it. AMDs partners will and the rest probably as well if the game has the console as primairy development platform.

no, buy "similar API" they mean its as low level...its not the same API microsoft or sony will be using in development for the consoles, so there wont be any easier porting than developing it for the PC in the first place, and in this case, they not only have to develop for DX for the PC, but also spend more time on an extra API......
good bye mantle, you were an interesting idea.

 

This development is rather large honestly. Where as mantle doesn't inherently exist on the consoles there is a considerable amount of overlap between console and pc development with the coming generation. Easing development on the pc is an excellent idea on AMD's part, particularly considering they have all the contracts and are the provider for the next generation of consoles. I don't think Mantle will be prevalent in every pc title, though I do believe that the major cross platform releases will see use of Mantle in the coming months/years.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hukkel

What? It says that it gives the PC an API that is similar to the console one. In other words; console games almost instantly come with it. It probably takes very little time to make it work for the PC version as well. And loads of games are being developed for consoles. So it is a small step for developers. In other words; the ones that are in Nvidias backpocket will under no circumstances support it. AMDs partners will and the rest probably as well if the game has the console as primairy development platform.

No it gives the PC an API that works in a similar fashion as the consoles, but completely different. So it is still going to be ported if put in Mantle no different than when a game is ported to Direct X. Well, we don't know the complexity of porting a game to Mantle yet...but then we actually know nothing of how Mantle will work yet either. It could be a less time intensive task to port something to Mantle and developers will add it in as an option...it could also be a complete nightmare and no one will want to even look at it.

I am sure AMD will pay their partners to use it though or aid them in developing it, but the list of AMD partners is not that long. So the majority of games are not effected.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Woundingchaney

This development is rather large honestly. Where as mantle doesn't inherently exist on the consoles there is a considerable amount of overlap between console and pc development with the coming generation. Easing development on the pc is an excellent idea on AMD's part, particularly considering they have all the contracts and are the provider for the next generation of consoles. I don't think Mantle will be prevalent in every pc title, though I do believe that the major cross platform releases will see use of Mantle in the coming months/years.

I don't think there is really going to be much overlap. Games on consoles are made for the hardware...Games on PC are made for the operating system and API. Though who knows? The magician console game developers might find a way to use Mantle on the consoles anyway. They can be crafty little buggers.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by t00sl0w

no, buy "similar API" they mean its as low level...its not the same API microsoft or sony will be using in development for the consoles, so there wont be any easier porting than developing it for the PC in the first place, and in this case, they not only have to develop for DX for the PC, but also spend more time on an extra API......
good bye mantle, you were an interesting idea.

Im willing to bet there will be a considerable amount of code overlap between Mantle and what we are seeing done with the next generation console. To suggest that these consoles are running AMD hardware and aren't going to at least utilize instruction sets and coding from AMD is more than a bit far fetched.

 

I think the idea behind Mantle is the same as the idea behind PhysX. AMD will put support for it in AMD Gaming Evolved titles so it can improve Radeon performance in those games. I don't think AMD will use Mantle to make it the dominant API in future PC games but to make better support of Gaming Evolved titles. This way they can differentiate themselves than Nvidia when using a Gaming Evolved title. Just like how Nvidia differentiated itself from AMD with TWIMTBP titles and included PhysX support to them.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

Not sure how how AMD saying one thing leads you to take away nearly the polar opposite.

Its because news posts can easily turn into a plug for your opinions, especially when people dont read long quotes or visit the source.

 

Even if it was "completely different", low-level API makes it sound like way less restrictions on the PC porting which at least on paper sounds great

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hukkel

What? It says that it gives the PC an API that is similar to the console one. In other words; console games almost instantly come with it. It probably takes very little time to make it work for the PC version as well. And loads of games are being developed for consoles. So it is a small step for developers. In other words; the ones that are in Nvidias backpocket will under no circumstances support it. AMDs partners will and the rest probably as well if the game has the console as primairy development platform.

Ah, yes. Developers that work with Nvidia are "in their backpocket", but developers that work with AMD are "partners". Got it. Completely unbiased here.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm

I am sure AMD will pay their partners to use it though or aid them in developing it, but the list of AMD partners is not that long. So the majority of games are not effected.
I don't think there is really going to be much overlap. Games on consoles are made for the hardware...Games on PC are made for the operating system and API. Though who knows? The magician console game developers might find a way to use Mantle on the consoles anyway. They can be crafty little buggers.

Its not necessarily an all or nothing ordeal. If they are optimizing for AMD hardware in the console market (which is the primary development market) then it makes complete sense to apply those optimizations to the pc market. There really isn't anything that suggests that this couldn't be done with or without them whole heartedly supporting Mantle.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm

So that's it then...Mantle won't likely see the light of day unless AMD pays people to use it or they get a monopoly on the GPU market. There is no way any game maker is going to port their game into Direct X/OpenGL AND Mantle as well...maybe if it is really easy to do or something I guess. But they aren't going to do too much extra work for percentage of a percentage of their customer base unless that percentage of a percentage gets really large.

Frosbite 3 will use it and Activision. So it's going to see alot of light for many days.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by seepra

Even if it was "completely different", low-level API makes it sound like way less restrictions on the PC porting which at least on paper sounds great

There is no way to know this at this point. Low level typically means more restrictions as there are less path ways to do a particular action (hence why Mantle will only work with GCN capable GPUs), but when there is very little known on a subject...there is a lot left unknown. No one really knows anything at this point. All we know is that it will be exclusive to PCs (notice how they did not say Mac? That makes me question its future on Linux too).

It really is going to come down to the developers. They will have to decide if it is worth the time to give a portion of a portion of their customers some extra performance...but again...we haven't seen Mantle in action yet. Just some claims from AMD about BF4. It might not really help all that much. AMD even said it wasn't going to cause miracles.

 

so now PC development is complicated without Mantle ?!!

man marketing can be funny

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencher

Frosbite 3 will use it and Activision. So it's going to see alot of light for many days.

just because it is in the engine doesn't mean the games will use it. Frostbite will also come with Direct X and OpenGL libraries in it. The game has to be coded to use it and developers will only do so if there is a return on their development investment. All the people that would be able to use the Mantle coding would also be able to use Direct X. So why do the job twice?

 

No wonder nvidia isn't crapping themselves that hard :/

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakik09

No wonder nvidia isn't crapping themselves that hard :/

Did they ever comment on AMD's Mantle at all? I was expecting a retort from them of some sort.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

Not sure how how AMD saying one thing leads you to take away nearly the polar opposite.

Explain?

Mantle isn't for consoles. So the previous argument of "Mantle being on PS4, Xbox One, and PC" is invalid. Now it's just for PC, a smaller subset of PC as well.

I didn't twist anything. Had Mantle been useful for consoles (which it isn't) then we'd see a stronger acceptance of it by developers for all platforms.

Please, I would really like a response detailing your rational.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kx11

so now PC development is complicated without Mantle ?!!

man marketing can be funny

Pc development has always been relatively complicated in the scenario of so many potential different configurations.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woundingchaney

Pc development has always been relatively complicated in the scenario of so many potential different configurations.

then they offer their helping hand with their optimal solution

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakik09

No wonder nvidia isn't crapping themselves that hard :/

I don't think they ever were.
Nvidia has had an API out for a long time but never pushed it because there was no reason to. It existed for devs to use or not use.
Mantle I think will be similar. What will matter greatly is the game engine being used.

I know the new frostbite engine supports both Mantle and Nvapi.
I don't expect Devs to build Mantle or Nvapi into an engine that does not support either out of the box... well unless they really want to.