What I want to know is WHY "spooky action at a distance" works, and how. I understand that it does seem to work, but I want to understand the physics behind it. When one photon a galaxy away changes, how does it instantly tell the other to change as well? Understanding this and being able to control it (or at least harness it), would be a giant leap in physics for mankind.

 

I was wondering that too lordikon.

The implications of such a device(s) are profound.

 

sending communications / data through time seems much easier than actual mass. I like where he is going with this.

- after reading full article, your basically trying to beat the light that you perceive from the message you just typed..

this is not time travel at all, its just really really fast communication using quantum entanglement.

More useful for current communications. Would be great for daily computers, cell phones, and the internet in general. OH and space travel- like it says it takes 22min to get a control signal to mars.. wWAYYY to slow for a stock market to run on mars, which explains why we haven't colonized it yet.

 

Think about your downloads.

"Hey...I need to download this."

~selects folder to download in~

"Hey!!! It's already there!!!"

 

This isn't exactly time travel. All your doing is compensating for the time light takes to travel a distance. Technically speaking it will still be Causation -> Reaction. When someone definitively creates a Reaction -> Causation situation that ISN'T simply compensating for light's travel time, THEN we'll have a form of backwards time travel. However, if that was possible it's very likely the universe (or the time-machine) would already have been destroyed due to a feedback loop.
Quote:

Originally Posted by lordikon

What I want to know is WHY "spooky action at a distance" works, and how. I understand that it does seem to work, but I want to understand the physics behind it. When one photon a galaxy away changes, how does it instantly tell the other to change as well? Understanding this and being able to control it (or at least harness it), would be a giant leap in physics for mankind.

It's called quantum entanglement. It's an incredibly strange form of quantum physics that essentially ties two (or more) particles together, where if you do one thing to one (change spin, etc.) it also applies to the other. I don't really have a full understanding of it, but that appears to be the basics of it.

 

I had read somewhere (or imagined LOL) that this "spooky action at distance" happens due to multiverse.

Once two particles become entangled, they are entangled forever and lets say one particle is a billion-light years away.

If that particle gains a new information (charge, spin, etc) the other entangled particle HAS to take the same property. How does this information get relayed? It should happen one billion year afterwards but instead it's instantaneous. This is when multiverse theory comes into play.

When you observe this one particle one billion light year away, in essense in our "alternate" universe(s) these particles are already "entangled" and we simply "flip" onto this new universe with the two particles with the said spin and charge. Because time is considered as one of our 4-dimension, and string theory takes us into 10 (maybe 11) dimensions, through Calaubi-Yau manifolds we can "bend" this 4-dimension like we can bend a 2D object through 3D to make a "wormhole", this information or this new, "alternate" universe, rather is warped into ours.

It's like as though we have two particles with every single spin and charge and whatnot in all multiverse and once we decide to observe one particle a certain way, that ONE multiverse with the said property warps into ours. This explains the "instantaneous" information travel because there's really no "light" that travels to relay this information.
Quote:

Originally Posted by doomlord52

This isn't exactly time travel. All your doing is compensating for the time light takes to travel a distance. Technically speaking it will still be Causation -> Reaction. When someone definitively creates a Reaction -> Causation situation that ISN'T simply compensating for light's travel time, THEN we'll have a form of backwards time travel. However, if that was possible it's very likely the universe (or the time-machine) would already have been destroyed due to a feedback loop.
It's called quantum entanglement. It's an incredibly strange form of quantum physics that essentially ties two (or more) particles together, where if you do one thing to one (change spin, etc.) it also applies to the other. I don't really have a full understanding of it, but that appears to be the basics of it.

 

Pretty much everything about all forms of time travel just end in annoyingly confusing logic loops. How would time travel even be invented really? It's like Back to The Future... on acid.

In this specific case, in order to receive the data before it's sent, he needs to send it... but would he still send it knowing it had already been received, or would he send it because it had already been received? It's an issue of cause and effect. If the effect creates the cause by occuring in time beforehand, which is truly the cause, and what are the repurcussions? Since they would already have the results of their test as the test if occuring, since we're only talking milliseconds here, what if they increased that gap to minutes... or hours? Maybe the theme behind 'Deva Vu' (the movie) isn't that far off after all?

Of course, everything after we 'prove' time travel leads into question of whether future advances are really advances at all or just our future selves causing themselves to exist by providing the research and answers to come to the conclusions that cause their existence to being with. Heck, at which time we'd have to question all of history as a whole as it could have been shaped and reshaped. This is also assuming we're talking about a universe and not a multi-verse theory, in which case we're not stepping into our own past at all and can't in any way reflect upon our present by our actions.

Case in point.... DON'T %*$^ WITH TIME TRAVEL.... it's bad mmm'kay

 

Mankinds Capabilities are as limitless as the imagination, If you can think of it, It's doable but that being said, I'd be scared if we actualy succeeded to master time, A contruct of wich man makes in order to understand day to day life.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayleyne

Mankinds Capabilities are as limitless as the imagination, If you can think of it, It's doable but that being said, I'd be scared if we actualy succeeded to master time, A contruct of wich man makes in order to understand day to day life.

Actually, it's all tying together now. Dr. Who is actually a factual recounting of occurences from a parellel universe in which we made ourselves Time Lords. We did so by mastering time travel, going back and being born with the universe and then infusing our own being with the threads of creation which leads to the virtual immortality that Time Lords possess. I'm actually glad they left creation of this recounting to the British. If it had been done by us Americans... it would be mindless explosions, boobies, and no plot at all.... we have plenty of those shows and movies already.

 

This is very interesting indeed, I love discussions on QM, GR and time travel.

 

If you create a computer system and a circle of entangle protons that the computer can link one to another in less than 50 miliseconds you could essetially send a message to the point this machine was made. But the second you do youd have a billion messagaes instantly if rules are not put into places at to when you can send these messages to. A computer would be able to sort them and stop them from entering the stream again.

 

Time travel will not exist in my life time...if it did...there are soooooo many things that I would go back and erase. Like the Nyan cat video...LOL

 

if you say that
Quote:

: If you took a pair of photons created at the same time and altered one of those photons, in theory the other photon would be altered instantly -- even if it was separated by an entire galaxy.

How do you get two particles entangled in the first place? he mentions they are created at the same time but that means it would be created in the same PLACE!? so how would you get these particles as far out as a Million light year away?

p.s now I am thinking only way to make this happen would through a chain reaction between particles through a "very long distance" lasers perhaps?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kppanic

I had read somewhere (or imagined LOL) that this "spooky action at distance" happens due to multiverse.
Once two particles become entangled, they are entangled forever and lets say one particle is a billion-light years away.
If that particle gains a new information (charge, spin, etc) the other entangled particle HAS to take the same property. How does this information get relayed? It should happen one billion year afterwards but instead it's instantaneous. This is when multiverse theory comes into play.
When you observe this one particle one billion light year away, in essense in our "alternate" universe(s) these particles are already "entangled" and we simply "flip" onto this new universe with the two particles with the said spin and charge. Because time is considered as one of our 4-dimension, and string theory takes us into 10 (maybe 11) dimensions, through Calaubi-Yau manifolds we can "bend" this 4-dimension like we can bend a 2D object through 3D to make a "wormhole", this information or this new, "alternate" universe, rather is warped into ours.
It's like as though we have two particles with every single spin and charge and whatnot in all multiverse and once we decide to observe one particle a certain way, that ONE multiverse with the said property warps into ours. This explains the "instantaneous" information travel because there's really no "light" that travels to relay this information.

But what if we are actually removing a dimension and dropping 2d time into a 1d point. Instant as all time is the same time.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomlord52

This isn't exactly time travel. All your doing is compensating for the time light takes to travel a distance. Technically speaking it will still be Causation -> Reaction. When someone definitively creates a Reaction -> Causation situation that ISN'T simply compensating for light's travel time, THEN we'll have a form of backwards time travel. However, if that was possible it's very likely the universe (or the time-machine) would already have been destroyed due to a feedback loop.
Quote:

Originally Posted by lordikon

What I want to know is WHY "spooky action at a distance" works, and how. I understand that it does seem to work, but I want to understand the physics behind it. When one photon a galaxy away changes, how does it instantly tell the other to change as well? Understanding this and being able to control it (or at least harness it), would be a giant leap in physics for mankind.

It's called quantum entanglement. It's an incredibly strange form of quantum physics that essentially ties two (or more) particles together, where if you do one thing to one (change spin, etc.) it also applies to the other. I don't really have a full understanding of it, but that appears to be the basics of it.

Sure, I understand quantum entanglement, or at least the theory behind it, what I'm wondering is under what process does entanglement itself operate? How is it that two entangled particles communicate over a vast distance? Obviously something connects them, but how?
Quote:

Originally Posted by kppanic

I had read somewhere (or imagined LOL) that this "spooky action at distance" happens due to multiverse.

Once two particles become entangled, they are entangled forever and lets say one particle is a billion-light years away.

If that particle gains a new information (charge, spin, etc) the other entangled particle HAS to take the same property. How does this information get relayed? It should happen one billion year afterwards but instead it's instantaneous. This is when multiverse theory comes into play.

When you observe this one particle one billion light year away, in essense in our "alternate" universe(s) these particles are already "entangled" and we simply "flip" onto this new universe with the two particles with the said spin and charge. Because time is considered as one of our 4-dimension, and string theory takes us into 10 (maybe 11) dimensions, through Calaubi-Yau manifolds we can "bend" this 4-dimension like we can bend a 2D object through 3D to make a "wormhole", this information or this new, "alternate" universe, rather is warped into ours.

It's like as though we have two particles with every single spin and charge and whatnot in all multiverse and once we decide to observe one particle a certain way, that ONE multiverse with the said property warps into ours. This explains the "instantaneous" information travel because there's really no "light" that travels to relay this information.
Quote:

Originally Posted by doomlord52

This isn't exactly time travel. All your doing is compensating for the time light takes to travel a distance. Technically speaking it will still be Causation -> Reaction. When someone definitively creates a Reaction -> Causation situation that ISN'T simply compensating for light's travel time, THEN we'll have a form of backwards time travel. However, if that was possible it's very likely the universe (or the time-machine) would already have been destroyed due to a feedback loop.
It's called quantum entanglement. It's an incredibly strange form of quantum physics that essentially ties two (or more) particles together, where if you do one thing to one (change spin, etc.) it also applies to the other. I don't really have a full understanding of it, but that appears to be the basics of it.

This is the information I was seeking. Obviously this is just one theory, but it's attempting to theorize how the entanglement itself works, which is what I'm curious about. +rep
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm

Time travel will not exist in my life time...if it did...there are soooooo many things that I would go back and erase. Like the Nyan cat video...LOL

I wouldn't dare mess with the past, if it were possible. There's no way to know what you could unintentionally effect. My luck I'd stop 9/11 and come back to the present and the U.S. will have been nuked by China or something. Anything could happen.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordikon

Sure, I understand quantum entanglement, or at least the theory behind it, what I'm wondering is under what process does entanglement itself operate? How is it that two entangled particles communicate over a vast distance? Obviously something connects them, but how?
This is the information I was seeking. Obviously this is just one theory, but it's attempting to theorize how the entanglement itself works, which is what I'm curious about. +rep
I wouldn't dare mess with the past, if it were possible. There's no way to know what you could unintentionally effect. My luck I'd stop 9/11 and come back to the present and the U.S. will have been nuked by China or something. Anything could happen.

You could also look into String Theory... there's a ton of theories behind how everything functions or exists, so it's really hard to say since all are about equally plausible since they exist in the realm of theory. I'd still like to believe it's somewhere in between all of them and we're just getting bits and pieces of the truth here and there.

Maybe... we are actually in a dual-universe something akin to described in "Tales from a Parallel Universe", more commonly known as "Lexx" the tv series. It's not really that out there to reference sci-fi, since anymore, science fiction is becoming science fact with a little trial and error, and effort.

 

Our concept of distance simply doesn't have any consequence to the actual universe we are barely able to perceive...

dunx

 

Time travel discussions are always interesting, but I think we can take two things for granted:

1. A message being received before it's completed is already possible. We do it everyday, be it in normal human to human communication, where we already know what the other person is going to say, or when we are typing an sms and the phone already knows what word we want even before it's fully typed. With further advancements in processing power and AI routines, the phone can even sense context, relate our message to the previous one, tie it together with our way of writing and thinking and basically have a high accuracy in predicting the whole message. Not exactly 100% correct all the time, but it would enable a message to be sent even before it's written.

2. Time travel is impossible in a universe. If time travel was possible, then somebody in the future would have already broken security protocols, traveled back in time and messed things up. It's just too tempting not to do it. The only possibility is time travel in paralel universes, where we can travel back to a "photocopy" of our past and change things, but they won't reflect themselves in our universe.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007

Time travel discussions are always interesting, but I think we can take two things for granted:
1. A message being received before it's completed is already possible. We do it everyday, be it in normal human to human communication, where we already know what the other person is going to say, or when we are typing an sms and the phone already knows what word we want even before it's fully typed. With further advancements in processing power and AI routines, the phone can even sense context, relate our message to the previous one, tie it together with our way of writing and thinking and basically have a high accuracy in predicting the whole message. Not exactly 100% correct all the time, but it would enable a message to be sent even before it's written.

Cosmic intuition??

People / software that predict words people say in a converstation or type on SMS is based on intuition, context and a number of other factors.

That's an interesting idea. How do you quantify something like that Cosmically (wrong term)? I'm too stupid for this conversation, but fascinated none the less.

 

So he's not so much talking about time travel as he is creating a communications device much like the ansible in the Ender's Game series?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007

2. Time travel is impossible in a universe. If time travel was possible, then somebody in the future would have already broken security protocols, traveled back in time and messed things up. It's just too tempting not to do it. The only possibility is time travel in paralel universes, where we can travel back to a "photocopy" of our past and change things, but they won't reflect themselves in our universe.

What would stop those other universes from time traveling to our past and changing things? It still doesn't work.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007

2. Time travel is impossible in a universe. If time travel was possible, then somebody in the future would have already broken security protocols, traveled back in time and messed things up. It's just too tempting not to do it. The only possibility is time travel in paralel universes, where we can travel back to a "photocopy" of our past and change things, but they won't reflect themselves in our universe.

what if this is the messed up timeline, and in the other one we are all super intelligent beings who know everything.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgevonfrank

What would stop those other universes from time traveling to our past and changing things? It still doesn't work.

I don't see why that's not possible?

 

I am not as smart or anywhere near as intelligent as them scientists, but even i know that time travel will never ever be possible.
The apparent notion conflicts heavily with the law of nature, and everybody knows that the law of nature overrules all.

 

Apparent 'known' laws of nature. Relativity once conflicted with known laws of nature, now it is one.