i use a silver kill coil and haven't had any problems but in all likelihood the first time you had the issue when you cleaned everything you probably did not get all of it and it grew back in.

 

I heard that the kill coil can have adverse reactions with the metal in the CPU block, is that true?

 

There is a chance it can speed up galvanic corrosion since they are somewhat dissimilar, but they are still close enough that they can be used together without a huge risk. Nothing like that of Aluminum and copper. The further apart they are on the chart, the higher the risk of galvanic corrosion. I used to use a silver coil with my copper blocks and never had a problem. I recently switch to PTNuke during the latest rebuild though

 

It's not algae, and it never was. It's plasticizer. You did a such a good job nuking anything that could possibly live in your loop that I don't see any other logical explanation.

What kind of tubing are you using?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jike27

I heard that the kill coil can have adverse reactions with the metal in the CPU block, is that true?

Quote:

Originally Posted by morencyam

There is a chance it can speed up galvanic corrosion since they are somewhat dissimilar, but they are still close enough that they can be used together without a huge risk. Nothing like that of Aluminum and copper. The further apart they are on the chart, the higher the risk of galvanic corrosion. I used to use a silver coil with my copper blocks and never had a problem. I recently switch to PTNuke during the latest rebuild though

That's not quite why. Galvanic corrosion requires that the two metals be in electrical contact in the presence of an electrolyte. No electrical contact and there's no galvanic corrosion, at least as it pertains to that particular piece of metal. In most cases people put the kill coil inside their acrylic/delrin reservoir, resting against plastic, which insulates it from electrical contact with anything else.

The reason it's thought that kill coils contribute to corrosion is that the free silver ions can combine with other impurities in the coolant to make it electrolytic, and accelerate corrosion between two other metals somewhere else in the loop. And there will always be some kind of electrical interface somewhere, especially at a screw hole, where you might have nickel plating scratched or worn away exposing copper beneath it, as well as possible contact with the brass of the fitting at the same location. Weld points inside radiators are another example, or where the brass screw threads or brass chambers are welded to the copper body of the rad, etc.

So the concerns about kill coils have nothing to do with silver's anodic potential as it relates to other metals since at least as far as kill coils go, they are usually not themselves in electrical contact with the other metal.

BTW it's also probably not strictly correct to say that the risk of corrosion is related to the anodic potential as shown on that chart. Increased potential increases of the rate of corrosion and the strength of the reaction.

 

Wait a minute.
Firstly, they are all in electrical contact.
They are submerged in water, remember?
That is a conductor right there.

Secondly, even if you could keep your water non-conductive all the time, the metals will release ions into the water.
Those ions will travel around to make contact with the other metals.
So all wetted metals end up in direct contact with each other.

We have a cottage and one time, we spent 3 years without going there.
When we went back for the first time again, the water smelled and tasted of a metal. We had to run the taps for a whole day to clear it out of the taps.
That was copper from the plumbing dissolving itself into the water.

And tho, I would try it myself. I'm pretty sure if you taste the coolant after a year, there will be a metallic taste to it.

That's all it takes really for the metals to be in direct contact.

 

If it were algae it would have clogged your waterblock up by now. Have you tried taking it apart to look at the channels?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepeLapiu

Wait a minute.
Firstly, they are all in electrical contact.
They are submerged in water, remember?
That is a conductor right there.

Secondly, even if you could keep your water non-conductive all the time, the metals will release ions into the water.
Those ions will travel around to make contact with the other metals.
So all wetted metals end up in direct contact with each other.

We have a cottage and one time, we spent 3 years without going there.
When we went back for the first time again, the water smelled and tasted of a metal. We had to run the taps for a whole day to clear it out of the taps.
That was copper from the plumbing dissolving itself into the water.

And tho, I would try it myself. I'm pretty sure if you taste the coolant after a year, there will be a metallic taste to it.

That's all it takes really for the metals to be in direct contact.

That's not what is meant by electrical contact in the context of galvanic corrosion. The electrolyte is the liquid that washes them both and completes the circuit in a way, but it can't also be the electrical connector, or either the anode or the cathode at the same time. For galvanic corrosion, the two metals have to be solids with a physical electrical conducting path between them. And then you also need the electrolyte on top of that.

Also, ions in solution behave differently than solids butting up against each other. Other kinds of reactions can occur, but they're not galvanic corrosion.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by threephi

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepeLapiu

Wait a minute.
Firstly, they are all in electrical contact.
They are submerged in water, remember?
That is a conductor right there.

Secondly, even if you could keep your water non-conductive all the time, the metals will release ions into the water.
Those ions will travel around to make contact with the other metals.
So all wetted metals end up in direct contact with each other.

We have a cottage and one time, we spent 3 years without going there.
When we went back for the first time again, the water smelled and tasted of a metal. We had to run the taps for a whole day to clear it out of the taps.
That was copper from the plumbing dissolving itself into the water.

And tho, I would try it myself. I'm pretty sure if you taste the coolant after a year, there will be a metallic taste to it.

That's all it takes really for the metals to be in direct contact.

That's not what is meant by electrical contact in the context of galvanic corrosion. The electrolyte is the liquid that washes them both and completes the circuit in a way, but it can't also be the electrical connector, or either the anode or the cathode at the same time. For galvanic corrosion, the two metals have to be solids with a physical electrical conducting path between them. And then you also need the electrolyte on top of that.

Also, ions in solution behave differently than solids butting up against each other. Other kinds of reactions can occur, but they're not galvanic corrosion.

This.
Galavnic corrosion requires direct contact in presence of an electrolyte.
OP,tubing goes like that after while,the fogging is water permeation coupled with plasticizer leech,replace the tube after a strip down,do not reuse it.

 

Replace your tubing with Primoflex Advanced LRT tubing, clean the loop, add distilled h2o and PT Nuke. If you have any nickle plated parts avoid a silver coil.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcratebuilder

Replace your tubing with Primoflex Advanced LRT tubing, clean the loop, add distilled h2o and PT Nuke. If you have any nickle plated parts avoid a silver coil.

Silver doesn't have an effect on Nickel,its the copper which is attacked. Its perfectly fine to use a coil if the plated parts are done correctly.
If he wanted a really good tube then Noprene is the way to go,not LRT.

 

just use pre mix coolant that are simply too toxic for algea to grow in , so much simpler , even buy some transparent X1 if you want no coloration , but stop trying to play with fire for a fictional perf increase ,...... (our rad,fans and loops in general are so unefficient that it s really not the calorific capapcity of the fluid that will change much )

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE

Silver doesn't have an effect on Nickel,its the copper which is attacked. Its perfectly fine to use a coil if the plated parts are done correctly.
If he wanted a really good tube then Noprene is the way to go,not LRT.

With several manufacturers not honoring their warranty on nickle plated parts if any type of silver kill coil is used I've stopped using them and I don't recommend them, personal preference. I've used Noprene and still prefer LRT, it seems to give me a better bend radius, again just personal preference. The important thing is to use high quality tubing and compatible metals.

I've been monitoring my loop water chemistry with my water test kit, interesting results in PH ,total alkalinity, calcium hardness and TDS's. After 6 months of monitoring I may learn something. I'm surprised just how fast the distilled h2o changes.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcratebuilder

Quote:

Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE

Silver doesn't have an effect on Nickel,its the copper which is attacked. Its perfectly fine to use a coil if the plated parts are done correctly.
If he wanted a really good tube then Noprene is the way to go,not LRT.

With several manufacturers not honoring their warranty on nickle plated parts if any type of silver kill coil is used I've stopped using them and I don't recommend them, personal preference. I've used Noprene and still prefer LRT, it seems to give me a better bend radius, again just personal preference. The important thing is to use high quality tubing and compatible metals.

I've been monitoring my loop water chemistry with my water test kit, interesting results in PH ,total alkalinity, calcium hardness and TDS's. After 6 months of monitoring I may learn something. I'm surprised just how fast the distilled h2o changes.

DI is even worse,its very ion hungry.

As for the manufacturers,only 1 requires no silver present,that is Koolance. Seeing as most Koolance is leaky junk,im not surprised.

 

Galvanic corrosion occurs when mixing metals.
Silver is a metal.
I don't understand the desire to adding a new metal to the soup when other non-metallic alternatives exist.

Shops and manufacturers will keep cathering to the consumer's demand.
Stop demanding that new metals be added to your loop for crying out loud!

Same goes.with EK's stainless steel jet plates.
When is anyone at all going to request a plastic, or copper, or brass jet plate?

I want copper plated brass fittings.
Or better yet, bare brass fittings.
Or even plated with anything one the non-wetted parts only.
When am I going to not be all alone on this?

None of this requires a large amount of cost or engineering.
Just basic common sence and.the desire to reduce metals in our loops.

 

You need to add EK to the list
Quote:

Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE

DI is even worse,its very ion hungry.

As for the manufacturers,only 1 requires no silver present,that is Koolance. Seeing as most Koolance is leaky junk,im not surprised.

DI is ion hungry for the first 48hrs, then not so much.

You need to add EK and XSPC to the no warranty list, your a industry rep, you should know this stuff.

Quote:

Galvanic corrosion occurs when mixing metals.
Silver is a metal.
I don't understand the desire to adding a new metal to the soup when other non-metallic alternatives exist.

Shops and manufacturers will keep cathering to the consumer's demand.
Stop demanding that new metals be added to your loop for crying out loud!

Same goes.with EK's stainless steel jet plates.
When is anyone at all going to request a plastic, or copper, or brass jet plate?

I want copper plated brass fittings.
Or better yet, bare brass fittings.
Or even plated with anything one the non-wetted parts only.
When am I going to be all alone on this?

None of this requires a large amount of cost or engineering.
Just basic common sence and.the desire to reduce metals in our loops.

+10

It would be very easy for manufacturers to provide all components in brass and copper. No need for plating other than cosmetic.

These silver coils have about .06 cents worth of silver in them at most, silver is under $20 a troy Oz, and a troy oz make about 310 silver coils.They are a very big profit margin for retailers. $20 worth of silver, 310 coils @ $5 = $1550.00 that's a good deal...for someone.

 

I had algae still grow in my loop despite using distilled and dead water. I could see it floating around in the res, took the block apart and got some pics of it. I had put 3 drops of dead water directly into the res when I first filled it. I think the coolant was only about 3 months old at that point.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcratebuilder

You need to add EK to the list
Quote:

Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE

DI is even worse,its very ion hungry.

As for the manufacturers,only 1 requires no silver present,that is Koolance. Seeing as most Koolance is leaky junk,im not surprised.

DI is ion hungry for the first 48hrs, then not so much.

You need to add EK and XSPC to the no warranty list, your a industry rep, you should know this stuff.

I do,please show me where EK say no silver,I have had numerous discussions with EK about this,Niko himself told me that silver is permitted.
There is nothing in XSPCs ToS that says silver is not permitted,when I get back from work I will bring this up with my mate at XSPC to confirm,the joy of having XSPC as a sponsor means I have both the CEO and the UK rep's contacts.

If you are going to call me out then at least be correct.

 

We do not recommend that you use silver at all in loops but we will honor the warranty regardless. To repeat what B-Neg has said, get your facts straight.

Silver is old tech IMO. There are so many cheap and safer alternatives.

Again, to repeat the facts. We do not recommend using a silver kill coil, we will however honor the warranty even if you do.

A good read if you'd like

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by derickwm

We do not recommend that you use silver at all in loops but we will honor the warranty regardless. To repeat what B-Neg has said, get your facts straight.

Silver is old tech IMO. There are so many cheap and safer alternatives.

Again, to repeat the facts. We do not recommend using a silver kill coil, we will however honor the warranty even if you do.

A good read if you'd like

I think it's ironic to talk about facts when one of the photos in the official EK knowledge base article you linked to is from an active, unresolved discussion from another thread right here on OCN. Right now the best we can say is that it is unknown gunk. It's a bit irresponsible to copy that photo and add the unsupported claim that it is organic. "Getting facts straight" means not jumping to conclusions based on a photo, and basing factual statements on actual facts, not speculation. Maybe it is organic, but maybe it's not, and if you are going to make authoritative claims about something, I would think it's in EK's best interest to wait for actual proof.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by derickwm

We do not recommend that you use silver at all in loops but we will honor the warranty regardless. To repeat what B-Neg has said, get your facts straight.

Silver is old tech IMO. There are so many cheap and safer alternatives.

Again, to repeat the facts. We do not recommend using a silver kill coil, we will however honor the warranty even if you do.

A good read if you'd like

So EK fluid alone is more than adequate for a four month maintenance schedule?

Also my tubes are solid, my loop is solid so was thinking of using EK red solution since it is easier to visualize a leak or work with the fluid itself to look down into a deep radiator and see the level of the fluid, was also considering a UV yellow or green for the same reason.

Would much rather stick with EK clear if the thermal or anti-growth properties are enhanced without the dye, but then checking the fluid level in a dark area may prove more difficult.

If its all about the same, I'll go with the brightest color I can so its easier to work with while filling bleeding refilling etc.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by threephi

I think it's ironic to talk about facts when one of the photos in the official EK knowledge base article you linked to is from an active, unresolved discussion from another thread right here on OCN. Right now the best we can say is that it is unknown gunk. It's a bit irresponsible to copy that photo and add the unsupported claim that it is organic. "Getting facts straight" means not jumping to conclusions based on a photo, and basing factual statements on actual facts, not speculation. Maybe it is organic, but maybe it's not, and if you are going to make authoritative claims about something, I would think it's in EK's best interest to wait for actual proof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanBruce

So EK fluid alone is more than adequate for a four month maintenance schedule?

Also my tubes are solid, my loop is solid so was thinking of using EK red solution since it is easier to visualize a leak or work with the fluid itself to look down into a deep radiator and see the level of the fluid, was also considering a UV yellow or green for the same reason.

Would much rather stick with EK clear if the thermal or anti-growth properties are enhanced without the dye, but then checking the fluid level in a dark area may prove more difficult.

If its all about the same, I'll go with the brightest color I can so its easier to work with while filling bleeding refilling etc.

Yes, our Ekoolant's can be run by themselves in a loop and they are what we recommend the most when using our products.

 

He does have a point,posting that up without actual proof one way or the other is pretty poor. Thats what got EK in trouble last time.
Evidence. There is none there Derick.

 

The only reason I tell people not to use silver coil with di water is because of this thread I read where ek says not to. I always assumed it was bad. I am trying to find the test they did where even with the new nickel plating process over time the silver coil and distilled coolant damaged the blocks. I remember googling the issue after I bought nickel plated blocks and after reading that I always reccomended not to do it. I could be wrong though.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1035356/official-ek-statement-nickel-plating-issues

I know that's an old thread so maybe things have changed but once you read that it's hard to ever feel comfortable using silver coils with nickel blocks.

I have always used the ek coolant and never once had a problem with loop growing algae or any type of tubing discoloration or corrosion. That coolant really works great. I also reuse some of it when I drain my loop and run it thru a coffee filter. It makes life a lot easier. No worrying about adding anything else to your loop.

Also I wasn't saying the warranty will be ruined but that I never feel comfortable using that combo or reccomending it.

Like Derrick said there are so many other options. imo opinion why risk it.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE

I do,please show me where EK say no silver,I have had numerous discussions with EK about this,Niko himself told me that silver is permitted.
There is nothing in XSPCs ToS that says silver is not permitted,when I get back from work I will bring this up with my mate at XSPC to confirm,the joy of having XSPC as a sponsor means I have both the CEO and the UK rep's contacts.

If you are going to call me out then at least be correct.

The silver was settled by EK's post, and I believe my facts are correct.

A simple google search about xspc warranty well shed light on the fact that a typical warranty request is answered with a poorly translated reply saying that it's not covered because it's a custom application. You'll find threads here on OC.net

I had bookmarked the EK warranty statement but that page is no longer available...strangely.