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dpi vs. microsoft "pointer speed"?

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bombzaway

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I know I sound beyond mouse illiterate, but I never really understood this. What exactly is the purpose to purchasing a mouse with a high dpi when you can just adjust the microsoft pointer speed higher. Does it become less accurate by doing so? Are you suppose to set the microsoft "pointer speed" to low and adjust the dpi accordingly for optimal precision?

Also, "enhanced pointer precision", is it better to have this disabled or enabled? what exactly does it do?
 
#2 ·
Windows pointer speed beyond 6/11 noticeably "skips counts".

3/11 = 0.25
4/11 = 0.5
5/11 = 0.75
6/11 = 1 (1:1 ratio of dots per inch)
7/11 = 1.5
8/11 = 2
9/11 = 2.5
10/11 = 3
11/11 = 3.5

A simple example would be the 8/11 notch (2). The pointer skips 1 whole count when moving your cursor.

If you would like to see the difference, set one mouse 6/11 800 DPI and set another at 8/11 400 DPI (Or use values where you can simply half the total count).

Enhance pointer precision is an acceleration curve. If ticked off, there's no acceleration, but some older games may auto enable it when launched.
 
#3 ·
In theory it's best to leave it at 6/11 with EPP off and then lowering your sensitivity in games (and meanwhile increasing the dpi) to increase your precision.

Sort of like this:

1) You're currently using sensitivity 4.00 at 400 dpi
2) You want the precision of 2.00 sensitivity
3) Double your dpi to 800 and set ingame sensitivity to 2.0

Below 6/11 it drops counts. At 5/11 for instance (0.75), for every 4 counts from the mouse, Windows will drop 1.
This way you won't lose any on screen precision but you will lose your 1 to 1 ratio with mousemovement. Above 6/11 loss of precision on screen is going to become noticable so in general to put it simple:

< 6/11 --> OK'ish
6/11 --> Perfect
> 6/11 --> Mother of all evil
 
#4 ·
I consider settings equal or lower than 4/11 to be as good as 6/11 and to be honest at 5/11 you wont notice any weirdness unless you really want to.
 
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#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol View Post

and to be honest at 5/11 you wont notice any weirdness unless you really want to.
Click to expand...
I disagree wholeheartedly with this. If you have it at an uneven number you will experience an uneven and unpredictable pixel skip. Try it right now if you don't believe me. Set it to 4/11, spam draw circles with your cursor. You'll notice your cursor stays relatively centered and doesn't drift off. Now do the same with 5/11. The cursor will likely drift to the left top of your screen, and you will have to lift your mouse and re-adjust the position.
 
#6 ·
I hate the dpi marketing that it is precision.
It isn't ,its just sensitivity.
For example if you have a mouse that have 200 dpi and you are allready on 6/11 windows notch and you
want more speed then its the best ,to buy a mouse with more dpi.
That you not get any mouse problems.

If you have a mouse for example 400 dpi and its just a good speed for you (on6/11notch)
then you dont get more precision buy buying a more dpi mouse.
Only if the speed is to slow.

For me ,everything above 450 dpi on mine 1920x1080 monitor i lose precision.
Because its to fast for me ,but i can still be superfast.
I'm faster with 450 dpi then a 1800 dpi mouse even when i used both long time to get used to it.
I always stay at 450 to max 800 dpi (depends on mouse every mouse different weight shape) till maybe the monitor resolution is 4x bigger.
 
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#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by pruik6 View Post

I hate the dpi marketing that it is precision.
It isn't ,its just sensitivity.
For example if you have a mouse that have 200 dpi and you are allready on 6/11 windows notch and you
want more speed then its the best ,to buy a mouse with more dpi.
That you not get any mouse problems.
If you have a mouse for example 400 dpi and its just a good speed for you (on6/11notch)
then you dont get more precision buy buying a more dpi mouse.
Only if the speed is to slow.
For me ,everything above 450 dpi on mine 1920x1080 monitor i lose precision.
Because its to fast for me ,but i can still be superfast.
I'm faster with 450 dpi then a 1800 dpi mouse even when i used both long time to get used to it.
I always stay at 450 to max 800 dpi (depends on mouse every mouse different weight shape) till maybe the monitor resolution is 4x bigger.
Click to expand...
Actually, higher DPI does allow for greater precision.

That part takes place in the game engine itself, specifically sensitivity settings. (Lower value = more precision)

Edit: The above is from a 3D game perspective
 
#9 ·
the general rule is very simple. 6/11, EPP off, then adjust the sensitivity in your game. try to find out if there is a numerical adjustment, as that's much more accurate. sometimes you have to search for the config file. also, always enable DirectInput or RAW input if available for best maximum perfect control speed performance at your DPI setting.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Actually, higher DPI does allow for greater precision.
That part takes place in the game engine itself, specifically sensitivity settings. (Lower value = more precision)
Edit: The above is from a 3D game perspective
Click to expand...
So you want say if i take 5000 dpi and do it in game very low i get more precise.
I dont think so ,at least not for me.
The reason is if you keep adjusting mousepeed your not one with your speed and its hard to find the same speed with a sens bar.

At least for me :
I search a dpi where i not missclick or overshoot target.
- thats for me 450 dpi on 1920x1080 monitor.
If i do higher i need to learn the speed again take time and still i tried 1 year 1800 never worked for me missclicks on very fast gaming my precision was tons worser. i did aswell 5600 dpi with in game very low feels not the same and you cant never find the same speed what you use every where windows everywhere.
almost all games have different sensitivity bars hard to find the same speed.

So you wanne say if there is a mouse with 9 million dpi without interpolled dpi you gonna use it with in game 0.0001 sens
rolleyes.gif

I know you one of the best mouse experts but this part not work for me.

Whats the reason behind it ,you think its true?

lol i have 2 account never knew that
biggrin.gif
 
#11 ·
I'm not saying to be silly about it with overly insane and unneeded CPI counts, but rather in general sense.

I'll attempt to explain when I get home. I'm pretty busy right now and can't really go on for an hour just typing a post. Hopefully Glymbol can respond before I do even though I have a few different view points on certain things and may even be wrong
redface.gif


Simple and unexplained:
- Precision isn't a measure of personal accuracy. You have to find that on your own.
- You won't really need to go extremely low on the sensitivity bar.
- Your current setup looks pretty controlled. This works good for a low sensitivity playing style.
- Game engines have outdated input methods (imho). I would like to work with developers and other individuals to change the current formula in 3D games. My ideas might require sensor manufacturers to take a different approach.

tl;dr Logitech and Razer were right to an extent, it just happened to be poorly explained when marketing got a hold of it. Insane DPI counts are just the result of ignorant gamers buying whatever has the larger number.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by viowastaken View Post

I disagree wholeheartedly with this. If you have it at an uneven number you will experience an uneven and unpredictable pixel skip. Try it right now if you don't believe me. Set it to 4/11, spam draw circles with your cursor. You'll notice your cursor stays relatively centered and doesn't drift off. Now do the same with 5/11. The cursor will likely drift to the left top of your screen, and you will have to lift your mouse and re-adjust the position.
Click to expand...
At 5/11 pointer does not skip pixels, it skips every 4th count. As you move the mouse in one direction, the pointer moves by 1 pixel for 1st 2nd and 3rd count and doesn't move for 4th count.
300

In my opinion spam drawing circles isn't good method to test anything. Even if you keep your mouse in one spot you probably turn it a little during movement and it is sufficient to cause drift. In my case cursor drifts to the right when drawing circles clockwise and to the left when drawing circles counterclockwise. It behaves that way at any setting even 6/11.
 
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#13 ·
Skylit thanks for the explanation.

I need to go low otherwise its akward for me
smile.gif
,i can be very fast with it i be faster then i use higher mousespeed.

Ofcourse i can do 800 dpi ,but then i overshoot target must return to the place i want cost also time.
Specially for example in starcraft 2 when i play superfast micro and macro battles in the heat of the war you dont wanne miss things or overshoot.
thern go back to the position .

I like smooth ,fawless ,consistent,make the speed with my arm/fingers/wrist,accelarating with my claw/finger tip grip thats why i use very tiny lightweighted mouse very low dpi.

Can't do the same with a Deathadder to heavy and big for fast gaming on low dpi.

p.s: have bad english try everyday to improve ,if you not understand anything i re edit it
biggrin.gif

Not get it much on school before but i want to be on this site best site/forum about mices.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
I got another question: what about in game sensitivity? Should I be setting that to a low as possible and adjust my dpi accordingly for maximum precision? And I'm talking about counterstrike in particular.
 
#15 ·
Where in Windows do I make the adjustment to 6/11?
Never mind, found it along with a healthy dose of "Damn I'm stupid".
 
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#17 ·
In theory its true 1:1 is the best ,but for example my razer salmosa mouse is so perfect for me.
But i prefer 400 dpi around that so i use 800 windows on 4/11 i think 6/11 windows pointer speed so overrated how much shall it infect the play or cursor speed i think very very minimal the perfect grip and ideal speed is more important then the 6/11 pointer speed i think same as 1000hz polling rate.
Ofcourse it is good futures 1ms polling rate, 6/11 windows speed and prediction ,but i think it infect very minimal.
What you guys think about this?
 
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#18 ·
I think that 4 is a really bad setting for the pointer speed, maybe you dont notice it or maybe your favourite game uses raw input
smile.gif

305
Thats it, unconsistent acceleration, nothing you really want to have.
3 is the setting that can work, its 1:2 ration and thats like having 800dpi in the mouse and 400dpi pointer movement, i dont get why you would want it though, at least if your mouse can track reasonably at 400dpi.
 
#19 ·
4/11 is perfectly fine, it isn't inconsistent and there's no acceleration, just as at 6/11. Salmosa has two CPI steps 1800 and 800 so there's two options to get 400 out of 800 setting: use Windows pointer speed slider at 4/11 or Razer software sensitivity at 5/10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombzaway View Post

I got another question: what about in game sensitivity? Should I be setting that to a low as possible and adjust my dpi accordingly for maximum precision? And I'm talking about counterstrike in particular.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't do that for CS 1.6. It's an easy way to get huge amount of negative acceleration. DeMS explained why this happens in topic linked in his post above. I believe the best CPI for CS 1.6 are: 400 and 800 for higher sensitivity players.
 
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