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aperson123

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So I want to build a home 2 NAS one for me and one for the folks. Not worried about the budgets atm.

What I need. (I can build it or get a pre-made)
-Media DVD, Bluray, Music this will be the bulk of what I want for.
-Portable to some extent so no full tower. Something that can fit in a dorm room for when I go to college.
-Also backing up my PC to. (only the c drive so 128gbs atm although backing up my D drive would not hurt.)
-10tbish usable
Thats about all I need

For the folks.
-Pictures Music Movies
-Documents
-More redundancy
-No size REQ
-for like 6tbish usable
-very user friendly for when im not here to fix and trouble shoot.

Other things I was just wonder about/want
-Box like a boxee to stream the NSA content to tvs
-An external HD for the folk to back up important docs and stuff I feel should not be on a computer connected to the internet. On a side note to this for sake of redundecy is it better to get 2 externals and back up the data twice if I don't want it to be on the pcs they use?
-Decent GB router (not a priority)

If there is anything I missed feel free to tell me and I will add it.
Thanks
 
#2 ·
I am gonna give you a couple build options - Both are going to be SFF/Low Noise

Case:
PSU:

Mobo:

CPU:

RAM:

HDD - You want at least a 3yr warranty and high MTBF, so look at the NAS or Enterprise Line.
Total: Around $1000-1300 depending on Intel/AMD and Case

As far as OS Choices I recommend:
  • FreeNas or Alternatives
  • Ubuntu / Debian / CentOS
  • Synology DSM (Xenology)
  • UnRAID
  • Windows Home Server
  • Nexenta
Avoid RAID 5 if you like your Data. Use RAID 10 or Synology Hybrid RAID (Highly recommend if you want to expand/mix and match HDDs)

You want to Look into Plex or XMBC for your Media Needs. You can use roku, wd tv, apple tv, xbox 360, ps3 to stream as long as you convert/transcode the files to supported formats. Plex transcodes on the fly.
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle5281 View Post

RAM:

HDD - You want at least a 3yr warranty and high MTBF, so look at the NAS or Enterprise Line.
Click to expand...
RAID 6 is also usable if you only have a few drives, and with four should theoretically be more reliable than 10. In RAID 10 with four drives, there is a striped set of mirrors A and B. Both mirrors consist of a pair of drives, 1 and 2, so you have drives A1 and A2 mirrored and then striped with mirrored drives B1 and B2. If a given drive (say, A1) dies, the array is intact. But there is a 1 in 3 chance that the next drive to die will be A2 and the array will fail completely. RAID 01 is worse - the drives are striped and THEN mirrored, meaning there is a 2 in 3 chance for the second dead drive to kill the array (ironically, if A1 dies in RAID 01 and then A2 dies, that's the only way for it to remain intact while it would be the only way to kill the RAID 10 array). RAID 6 with four drives has the parity spread among them all and can survive two drive failures. There are drives 1, 2, 3, and 4. If any two of those die, the array is still intact.

Do you really need 8GB or RAM for a server? I doubt you need more than 4GB, and even 2GB seems doable, though I've never built a server (I just know my HDDs and RAID in theory).

Finally, WD has 4TB Reds out now. Just don't buy them from Newegg, since they are notorious for DOA HDDs from their bad packaging. Amazon is pretty good though, from what I've heard. They're technically less reliable than a 3TB (is less reliable than 2TB is less reliable than 1TB...) drive because they have more moving parts, but overall, an equal capacity of bigger drive (3x 4TB vs 4x 3TB are both 12TB total) should be less likely to fail unless WD really screwed up. I'm not sure about any 4TB Seagate NAS drives though, but check for them.
 
#5 ·
Go RAID 10 with 4 HDDs you get around 25% more IOPS and regarding RAID 6, you are partially correct. The issue with Parity RAID such as 5/6 is that you encounter an URE or Bit rot, it will destroy your entire array. Granted with RAID 6 you can tolerate 1 URE during a rebuild due to the 2nd level of parity, however there is still a good chance of encountering a 2nd URE during the rebuild.

Not to mention you encounter a much bigger write penalty. The chances of a 2nd HDD in the same stripe failing during the rebuild of the 1st is highly unlikely in RAID 10, however during a RAID 5/6 Rebuild any 2nd HDD Failing will screw up your day. RAID 5 you are SOL and most likely looking at professional data recovery. RAID 6, your array is most likely gonna be trashed by a URE. RAID 6 is good for archival purposes, but if this is going to be an active fileserver, go with RAID 10 or SHR, which is a hybrid RAID 5/6 that is quite unique in how it operates.

You do need 8GB or more if you plan on running ZFS or using Write Caching. And avoid the 4TB HDDs for while. The consumer models have horrible reliability right now.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
So from what I gather with SHR means every time I add another HDD it has to be equal to or greater than the previous one also would someone be nice enough explain rebuilding. An what is the minimum amount of HDDs i need to start a NAS. As for Raid 10 im still not fully comprehending it sorry.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by aperson123 View Post

An what is the minimum amount of HDDs i need to start a NAS. As for Raid 10 im still not fully comprehending it sorry.
Click to expand...
I was using a NAS of just a flash drive plugged into a USB port on the router before realizing I had no use for it. It did what it was supposed to though. You only need a single storage device to qualify as a NAS. RAID 10 can maybe be explained with my beautiful artwork:



Drives A1 and A2, assuming no issues, are EXACTLY the same. Drives B1 and B2, again, no issues, are also EXACTLY the same. Mirror A is striped with Mirror B, and they act like Drive A and Drive B in RAID 0, but can tolerate a single fault. That's where I was getting the 1 in 3 chance for the second drive death to kill the array.

Wikipedia could help too.

Also of note, the person responding to me is correct and I neglected or forgot about it: RAID 5 or RAID 6 can encounter issues rebuilding from a failed drive. I was not aware of the bandwidth limitation though.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
OK that helps and I suppose I should rephrase my question how many drives do i need to start a NAS with RAID 10 or SHR and I was on the wiki was a little hard for me to understand. And is it right to assume rebuilding is restoring the data when a drive dies to restore the data to the way it was before.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by aperson123 View Post

OK that helps and I suppose I should rephrase my question how many drives do i need to start a NAS with RAID 10 or SHR and I was on the wiki was a little hard for me to understand. And is it right to assume rebuilding is restoring the data when a drive dies to restore the data to the way it was before.
Click to expand...
When you insert a new drive to replace the failed drive. That's rebuilding
 
#11 ·
Yes you technically have to "rebuild" the data to the new HDD, but adding HDDs while you array is running is called "Online Capacity Expansion. You cannot easily add HDDs to a normal raid 10, however you can add to SHR anytime you feel like it using any size drive.
 
#12 ·
Get a Norco rpc-4020 or 4220 or any cheap case that can hold the drives you want to use and more, more or less any cheap dual- or quad-core cpu (my server is still running an i3-2100 and never breaks a sweat) then however many hardrives you want to start with. I run whs2011 (our house is more or less exclusively windows so whs integrates super nicely and backs up each client every night) with Stablebit Drivepool and PerfectDisk's defragger for whs.

Stablebit Drivepool is a type of software raid. I have used this for over 1.5 years and not had any issues I have added and removed drives several time to enlarge and one time to replace a failed drive and not lost any data. With the Drive pool you can tell it to mirror everything onto a different drive and then you have redundancy. This is easy to use and like I said it integrates super easy with all your windows PC's. I also have apps or programs installed that allow me to push media out to my ipads.

At the present time I am building a new server using windows 2012 essentials. but I have been very pleased with the Windows Home Server 2011 and it is just 59 dollars for this software.

Just my 2
2cents.gif


the reason I have not used one of the free NAS programs is the learning curve not that I mind learning but then I would also have to teach my wife and kids about this. with the WHS I have not had to do this and what I have showed them is easy and like windows anyway. I work in Indonesia for 1 month and then home for 1 month so up time and ease of use is very important to me.

also if you want to serve movies and media you can install My Movies on it and this works awesome to me. it uses windows media player to play movies, music and photos also. you can get more info on this at http://www.mymovies.dk/

Also if you want more information on windows home server go to this site and read or buy one of the books on using it. it tells you how to do pretty much everything you want to do and more in a simple and easy to read and understand format. http://www.wegotserved.com/
 
#13 ·
I personally don't like compound RAID. I think the cheapest and most dependable way to do things would probably be a RAIDZ1 under Freenas, seeing that RAM is generally cheaper than high-performance RAID controllers. With 4 3tb drives you'd get ~9TB raw capacity, and it's much easier to manage since mostly everything is done through the web panel. Plugins make it pretty versatile too.

I'll second the Lian Li PC-Q25 as a small-ish server case though. Backplane hard drive rack and small form factor definitely make it a winner if you are going to lug your stuff around. If its
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
So if I use SHR do you need something to put over it like Windows server and with SHR I do not need a RAID controller and do you guys recommend a ssd to put the OS on. and if I got this case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112339 what PSU would you all recommend. (needs to power 7 HDD) as thats what the mobo I was looking at maxs out at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157357 . Still open to suggestions for the cases althoug the Norcos mentioned by seross are a little overkill for my starting build but i will keep them in mind.
 
#15 ·
SHR is part of the Synology DSM Operating System. DSM is a full featured linux operating system like Ubuntu, etc but is customized for NAS Usage. You do not need a RAID Controller. And you do not need a PSU with 7 SATA Power Plugs since the Backplane uses 3 Molex Power Connectors. Choose whatever PSU is Reliable and Modular if you can. You do not really need to spend money on an SSD for the OS. You will not see the benefit. The Limit of your NAS is going to be your network and to a degree the storage drives, not the OS Drive. The builds I listed with Easily push 2Gb/s-4Gb/s with a Dual or Quad Port NIC.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle5281 View Post

I am gonna give you a couple build options - Both are going to be SFF/Low Noise

Case:
PSU:

Mobo:

CPU:

RAM:

HDD - You want at least a 3yr warranty and high MTBF, so look at the NAS or Enterprise Line.
Total: Around $1000-1300 depending on Intel/AMD and Case

As far as OS Choices I recommend:
  • FreeNas or Alternatives
  • Ubuntu / Debian / CentOS
  • Synology DSM (Xenology)
  • UnRAID
  • Windows Home Server
  • Nexenta
Avoid RAID 5 if you like your Data. Use RAID 10 or Synology Hybrid RAID (Highly recommend if you want to expand/mix and match HDDs)

You want to Look into Plex or XMBC for your Media Needs. You can use roku, wd tv, apple tv, xbox 360, ps3 to stream as long as you convert/transcode the files to supported formats. Plex transcodes on the fly.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recommendations, looking for something like this.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandGlass View Post

Thanks for the recommendations, looking for something like this.
Click to expand...
Glad I could help.Don't forget the +Rep button if you find a post useful.
 
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kyle5281
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