Optical mice can track on hard and cloth mouse pads and even have 5000 dpi native sensors now (because bigger means it's better >.>). What do laser mice do or achieve outside of having a high chance of jittering on cloth pads?
Why do laser gaming mice STILL exist?
Vantavia
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There's also that story about the later optical sensors that were sold with 4000 DPI support feeling a bit laggy. Laser might have a weird feeling when moving around and also random acceleration when doing larger motions like for 90 and 180 degree turns in games, but if they have less latency than typical 3090 mice, I could imagine that might be better for headshots in CS or something.
There's still things optical just can't do. Do you really know no one that uses something like 4000 DPI on the desktop? That just didn't work until very recently on optical mice, so laser is the logical choice for a person that wants that. The new 3310 and 3366 optical sensor mice that can now do it are very expensive. The older optical mice that supposedly could do 4000 DPI had very bad jitter when used like that, were unusable to navigate to a single pixel for example. You generally had to stop thinking of using most opticals when going higher than 800 or 1000 DPI or so.Originally Posted by Vantavia
They still don't pose any real benefit for gaming and almost any educated person would choose optical over laser at the same price point. By your own words they are only equal nowadays.
There's also that story about the later optical sensors that were sold with 4000 DPI support feeling a bit laggy. Laser might have a weird feeling when moving around and also random acceleration when doing larger motions like for 90 and 180 degree turns in games, but if they have less latency than typical 3090 mice, I could imagine that might be better for headshots in CS or something.
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I like my mouse, its comfortable, smooth and I need a high DPI - that is THE benefit for me, I don't want to have to move my arm all the way across my desk to go to opposing sides of the screen.
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/sigh...
1.) Lasers do not equal jitter... The PTE mice, which are considered laser, jitter quite a bit, are super sensitive to dust and debris, and have a z-axis bug that exists across the entire sensor line. ADNS-9x00 sensors do not jitter at all. Actually, they are amazingly stable. The problem with them is that they have random acceleration. This is a major flaw for anyone that plays games that require incredible muscle memory.
2.) The G9 is vastly better than the G9x sensor wise. The only problem the G9 was known to have was some odd lift off distance and odd tracking on a very distinct surfaces. Everything else was rock solid. Very popular Starcraft mouse.
3.) Optical mice such as the Mionix 7000 series, Steelseries Rival, Corsair M45, and the upcoming Roccat Kone Pure Military are all capable of DPI numbers of the current laser mice, and they do them without the innate flaws of the laser offerings. The G502 actually surpasses all laser mice in max DPI.
4.) Certain opticals, just like certain laser mice, handle different DPI settings better or worse than others. The difference is that the current laser mice on the market (note: I said currently on the market) have hardware flaws that detract from their usage by a certain segment of the market. Opticals are catching and surpassing them in almost every category. Laser is still less picky about surfaces than opticals. Opticals tend to prefer soft pads, and sometimes have tracking flaws on harder or more reflective pads.
5.) Anyone using above 3200DPI perplexes me, but if that's what you like, then do your thing. I can't help you as far as the cursor feel at those DPI settings. I stay around 800-1150.
1.) Lasers do not equal jitter... The PTE mice, which are considered laser, jitter quite a bit, are super sensitive to dust and debris, and have a z-axis bug that exists across the entire sensor line. ADNS-9x00 sensors do not jitter at all. Actually, they are amazingly stable. The problem with them is that they have random acceleration. This is a major flaw for anyone that plays games that require incredible muscle memory.
2.) The G9 is vastly better than the G9x sensor wise. The only problem the G9 was known to have was some odd lift off distance and odd tracking on a very distinct surfaces. Everything else was rock solid. Very popular Starcraft mouse.
3.) Optical mice such as the Mionix 7000 series, Steelseries Rival, Corsair M45, and the upcoming Roccat Kone Pure Military are all capable of DPI numbers of the current laser mice, and they do them without the innate flaws of the laser offerings. The G502 actually surpasses all laser mice in max DPI.
4.) Certain opticals, just like certain laser mice, handle different DPI settings better or worse than others. The difference is that the current laser mice on the market (note: I said currently on the market) have hardware flaws that detract from their usage by a certain segment of the market. Opticals are catching and surpassing them in almost every category. Laser is still less picky about surfaces than opticals. Opticals tend to prefer soft pads, and sometimes have tracking flaws on harder or more reflective pads.
5.) Anyone using above 3200DPI perplexes me, but if that's what you like, then do your thing. I can't help you as far as the cursor feel at those DPI settings. I stay around 800-1150.
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I know what my mouse is.
![tongue.gif]( "tongue.gif")
EDIT: I know why you think that, they made both type of sensors on the RAT5, Laser and Optical.
Its this one precisely http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/rat5.htmOriginally Posted by woll3
Thats a RAT 3, just saying.
I know what my mouse is.
EDIT: I know why you think that, they made both type of sensors on the RAT5, Laser and Optical.
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I am still using my logitech G5 v2, which happens to be a very nice mouse. I went HQ 118-19, S&D 26-2 on COD BO couple of days ago. Back in the days with CSS it was also a ''cheater'' alert mouse. So...
![tongue.gif]( "tongue.gif")
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this sounds like the most generic excuse ever but the camera I used was not mine, it was my sisters who is now here and she does not let me use the camera or anything XDOriginally Posted by woll3
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Pics or it didnt happen. :>Originally Posted by NeoReaper
I know what my mouse is.![tongue.gif]( "tongue.gif")
EDIT: I know why you think that, they made both type of sensors on the RAT5, Laser and Optical.
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I don't know the science behind it, but I've never ever seen a laser mouse where the laser was visible. As far as I know, any time you can see the illumination on the surface it's an LED illuminated optical mouse.Originally Posted by NeoReaper
this sounds like the most generic excuse ever but the camera I used was not mine, it was my sisters who is now here and she does not let me use the camera or anything XD
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Newer RAT 3 mice are LED optical.Originally Posted by NeoReaper
The laser on the R.A.T mouses (RAT 3 and 5, dunno if they made a laser for 7) are really gaddang bright x.x
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There are two other very different laser technologies involving mouse sensors, which are Phillips's PTE line of sensors (very accurate if people does use a surface that makes sense for it to use, one without the infamous Z-axis tracking and a little bit of further polishing would be almost unbeatable), and old tech that was meant to be a revolution at the time but ended up being a flop (no one really bought into it), the old Cypress OvationONS line of laser sensors, which even if they were VCSEL sensors, they used a very different way of capturing movement, different than image correlation.
While Cypress's offer wasn't very popular and didn't have much of an impact, PTE mice are still popping out from time to time, and it is a promising laser technology (once they iron out all the kinks, if they ever do, it might surprise some).
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There's a difference, and while I understand your point (comfort is paramount when using any peripheral), I cringe every time someone uses the word "need" related to something as superficial and unneeded as a computer peripheral.
Nothing personal, just my old self ranting a little
![smile.gif]( "smile.gif")
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Afaik they only did RAT3 with A3090, and remained on the 3500CPI ROM.
In any event, no laser mice would ever cast red light on a surface, so chances are that your product is mislabeled.
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I used to play competitively (and do good) with my fps locked at 30 - my computer couldn't even handle 60 stable back then, yet it is not recommendable or good practice.
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You might want to change the topic into something referring to VCSEL sensors, which is what I assume you're calling generically "laser".Originally Posted by Vantavia
Optical mice can track on hard and cloth mouse pads and even have 5000 dpi native sensors now (because bigger means it's better >.>). What do laser mice do or achieve outside of having a high chance of jittering on cloth pads?
There are two other very different laser technologies involving mouse sensors, which are Phillips's PTE line of sensors (very accurate if people does use a surface that makes sense for it to use, one without the infamous Z-axis tracking and a little bit of further polishing would be almost unbeatable), and old tech that was meant to be a revolution at the time but ended up being a flop (no one really bought into it), the old Cypress OvationONS line of laser sensors, which even if they were VCSEL sensors, they used a very different way of capturing movement, different than image correlation.
While Cypress's offer wasn't very popular and didn't have much of an impact, PTE mice are still popping out from time to time, and it is a promising laser technology (once they iron out all the kinks, if they ever do, it might surprise some).
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Indeed, the selling point of early laser mice was surface compatibility - old LED designs suffered wildly to adapt to different surfaces, to the point you would have to use certain mousepad with a certain mouse to guarantee compatibility, checking forums to see which mousepad was good for a given mouse was a common problem back then and, to a degree, it is still a problem nowadays with both optical and PTE mice.Originally Posted by deepor
Hey, you forgot how it was when the laser mice first came out. They were marketed as working on any surface, no need to use a mouse pad anymore, you can just use any desk. They were also marketed as working better on things like glass tables. That's of course all a lie, but perhaps good enough for office work?![tongue.gif]( "tongue.gif")
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Agree on both.Originally Posted by woll3
Thats a RAT 3, just saying.
As for the OP, you should improve your understanding of the topic by digging a bit around in the forum, especially look for the posts of jsx3.
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You don't technically need high CPI, you merely favor it because it's more comfortable.Originally Posted by KaffieneKing
I like my mouse, its comfortable, smooth and I need a high DPI - that is THE benefit for me, I don't want to have to move my arm all the way across my desk to go to opposing sides of the screen.
There's a difference, and while I understand your point (comfort is paramount when using any peripheral), I cringe every time someone uses the word "need" related to something as superficial and unneeded as a computer peripheral.
Nothing personal, just my old self ranting a little
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Not to my knowledge.Originally Posted by NeoReaper
Its this one precisely http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/rat5.htm
I know what my mouse is.![tongue.gif]( "tongue.gif")
EDIT: I know why you think that, they made both type of sensors on the RAT5, Laser and Optical.
Afaik they only did RAT3 with A3090, and remained on the 3500CPI ROM.
In any event, no laser mice would ever cast red light on a surface, so chances are that your product is mislabeled.
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Having good results with poor hardware tells more about the people than of the hardware.Originally Posted by Classif13d
I am still using my logitech G5 v2, which happens to be a very nice mouse. I went HQ 118-19, S&D 26-2 on COD BO couple of days ago. Back in the days with CSS it was also a ''cheater'' alert mouse. So...![tongue.gif]( "tongue.gif")
I used to play competitively (and do good) with my fps locked at 30 - my computer couldn't even handle 60 stable back then, yet it is not recommendable or good practice.
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Afaik they've always been.Originally Posted by DivineDark
Newer RAT 3 mice are LED optical.
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there are 0 reason to pick a "laser" over optical if you only look at the sensor.
G502 destroys every single "laser" mouse out there on all points.
If you are talking shape and so on ofc, thats another story.
But purly based on the sensor, no reason to pick a mouse with "laser" anymore.
G502 destroys every single "laser" mouse out there on all points.
If you are talking shape and so on ofc, thats another story.
But purly based on the sensor, no reason to pick a mouse with "laser" anymore.
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And about the original topic: Optical mice with bright leds are damn annoying on a clear-glass table and other semi-transparent/reflective surfaces, I prefer my laser mouse with the un-noticeably tiny beam, and for this reason I ain't getting an optical mouse any time soon.
![rolleyes.gif]( "rolleyes.gif")
Infrared lasers are in fact more harmful to eyes than visible lasers, because you cant see the infrared, your eyes wont close with a reflex to protect your eyes like they do when someone suddenly points a bright flashlight in your eyes, and "non visible" light like infrared or ultraviolet damages your eyes just like any visible color. Either way, laser mice are Class 1 laser products, which means they are safe under all conditions of normal use. Check the bottom of your Sensei, there should be a label stating "Laser Class 1" (it's right above the sensor on my Sensei). A common laser pointer has usually a lot more power than laser mice.Originally Posted by metal571
All lasers have to be in the infrared spectrum so as not to hurt you. There's a little bit of spillover into the visible region for some mice, I could see the laser at a very specific angle on my Sensei.
And about the original topic: Optical mice with bright leds are damn annoying on a clear-glass table and other semi-transparent/reflective surfaces, I prefer my laser mouse with the un-noticeably tiny beam, and for this reason I ain't getting an optical mouse any time soon.
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