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That is a nice deal. I use an Updesk (it's an electronic sit stand desk) it's awesome and I recommend it to anyone (even if you don't Stand with it it's super handy to make small height adjustments when you want to lean back and play games or watch a movie and then lower it when you play a twitch shooter or are working. I also highly recommend stand it's great! I have my monitors on a 6 monitor mount arms that are raised up from the desk so I can use all the space on my desk. I'm not sure if I will get an additional arm specifically for the pg278q but I guess I will as theirs no way I'm going to stop using my IPS panels for most things.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamski07 View Post

Yes it is Glass. Got it at Amazon. It has pretty good reviews and I really like the modern look. Not planning to set it up til I get my pc back and the rog swift.
I've seen that desk in person and I couldn't handle how chromy/shiny the legs were. I really like (dark smoked) glass desks as well. I ended up going with this one. I prefer a single large monitor and this desk is perfect.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamski07 View Post

Just ordered this desk. Goodbye small desk. I can finally have multiple monitors. Swift for gaming and my old screen for everything else! Now where's my rog swift?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lu(ky View Post

Is that desk top GLASS? It looks nice where did you find it at?
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarado View Post

Ohh that's a sweet desk. I think I needs.....
thinking.gif
I had the clear glass version, it was a nice solid desk with plenty of room. It is actually used in my office now, I downsized a little for home.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfsbora View Post

You are overlooking the single most important part of a calibration that can make or break your glorious contrast that you are promoting so heavily through the use of antagonizing, and that is white balance. Unless you have a perfectly calibrated white at 6500K, your contrast ratio means absolutely nothing along with colorspace. Over 6500K and your white will appear bluish, anything less will appear red. Either of these will offset the contrast and potentially destroys the image. You're also missing the fact that ambient lighting in the room can also change the white and black levels making the settings for day and night drastically different.

Like I said earlier, experience teaches you more than just quotes from a forum. I have hundreds of satisfied customers to back me up and again I am certified by the ISF. I'm not doubting that you are knowledgeable but to call someone a liar and say they are trolling is actually trolling.
Erm, your WB has to be off by a mind-boggling amount to reduce your contrast ratio by that much. My old SPVA came with horrible settings, about 20% more blue for every grayscale level than what 6500K needs. After calibration it lost about 500:1 CR. Most other sets lose anywhere between 200-800 CR, but when we're talking about 4000:1+ CR, 800:1 isn't THAT big of a loss. I've owned VG248QE and calibrated several TN panels. I think the worst case was a loss of 300:1 CR or something like that. I admit, when a TN panel comes with native 800:1 CR, a 300:1 loss can be considered rather big, but have you seen how many people complain about the image quality that they suddenly found acceptable AFTER calibration? At those pathetically low levels, CR is already so low that it no longer compensates for an accurate calibration, which can't really performed, considering that many TN panels have 64 grayscale levels that mimic 255 levels through dithering and all known TN gamma shift issues. A TN panel that comes with a native 800:1 CR that ends up having a 500:1 CR after calibration is considered to be a "500:1 CR TN Panel" if that the value at 6500K.

IPS monitors tend to be far better "factory-calibrated", but can still lose some CR, which, just like with TN panels, is very low. Not fully calibrating an IPS monitor defeats the very point of IPS technology that was designed with color accuracy in mind. Most IPS monitors today have very accurate colorspace (including 0-99% saturation sweeps), but they still need grayscale adjustments for WB and gamma that is another factor that defines how deep or flat the image is. High CR with overly low inaccurate gamma is almost as bad a low CR and accurate gamma when it comes to image depth.

ANY screen out there should have a contrast ratio of AT LEAST 4000:1 if not 5000:1 in my humble opinion. Even with 5000:1 CR, I still use bias lighting because with all the lights off, such a CR still produces rather light grays. Hell, my old folks have a 7500:1 CR Samsung F5350 plasma set that they can't watch without bias light after I showed them how important black levels are and how bias lighting affects our perception of them, even though that TV has a rather low/dim maximum white point (110cd/m^2 I think) that At such low luminance levels, out eyes are immensely sensitive and can tell the difference between 10000:1 and 15000:1 CR with all the lights off, which is why I still value older KURO plasma sets without the front glass cover.

Once and for all:
- Each display unit requires its own calibration. You cannot use an ICC profile someone made for their monitor on yours and expect it to be accurate. There is a 94% chance that someone else's calibration will actually worsen your display accuracy. Follow the next line and measure ICC profiles you obtained elsewhere, but your PC and for your exact panel unit.
- Buy or rent ColorMunki Display or i1Display Pro colorimeter. Spyder colorimeters, including Spyder4Elite, are not accurate enough to be even considered by credible display review sites, professional calibrators, and knowledgeable experts. Inaccurate measurements defeat the very idea of calibration, which is all about accuracy.
- Learn how to use HCFR Calibration display accuracy measurement software (3.1.4.0 or later - http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/Windows/ ), and DiscaplGUI interface software (2.1 or later - http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/#download) for ArgyllCMS calibration software (32bit 1.6.3 or later - http://www.argyllcms.com/Argyll_V1.6.3_win32_exe.zip , but it also comes with DispcalGUI), all of which are free, work well and support each other. ArgyllCMS is rather new, more accurate than any known LUT / 3DLUT calibration software, but its slow (20-30 minutes for a simple LUT is needed) and it is DOS-command-based (LOL, right?), UNLESS you use it with DispcalGUI, a very good, easy-to-use, Windows-based UI. DispcalGUI is THE UI for ArgyllCMS. For software calibration to be as accurate as it can be, make sure that your 100th % grayscale level, or simply your brightest white point, is calibrated to D65 6500K as close as it possibly can be (up to 100% accuracy), using R, G, and B hardware controls in display's OSD adjustment settings.
- Take measurements and calibrate your display in complete darkness. Even a small PC LED light can decrease your measurement and calibration accuracy.
- Use D65, 6500K, and BT.1886 Gamma/Tone Curve in your DispcalGUI/ArgyllCMS calibration. Power-law gamma (2.2) will either fully crush low CR TN black levels, or make them too hard to see on 1000:1 CR panels, but most importantly power-law gamma is plain WRONG from color science perspective. Film mastering that supposedly uses power-law 2.2 gamma uses super high-end reference displays with extremely low black levels, which most monitors and even TV's cannot produce, making BT.1886 the only real and acceptable gamma choice.
- Use bias lighting for all low CR displays (IPS, PLS, TN, AHVA, even some MVA) and even good CR displays to greatly improve the perception of black levels you panel produces. You can find one of the best Ideal Lume Lamp here for $65 - http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/Ideal-Lume.htm (the very top lamp) and a cheaper, but lower-quality F20, T12. D65 fluorescent Lamp here - http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/65k.htm . Always make sure the lamp is D65 6500K.
- Learn how to use Borderless (FullScreen) Window mode in games and how to use "Windowed Borderless Gaming" program to accomplish that for games that do not have a built-in Borderless/Fullscreen Window mode. Borderless Window, Borderless FullScreen Window, FullScreen Window, Window(ed) FullScreen, and etc. are all the same, but different games call it differently. Its just a Window mode, that runs the game in a borlderless window, but uses your display's maximum resolution, looks 100% identical to normal FullScreen mode, and AFAIK (I could be wrong on this one) cannot be used with V-Sync, even if V-Sync box is checked or B-Sync is set to "Enabled", "On", etc.
- Don't use software that comes with either i1Display Pro or ColorMunki Display, but do install it. Disable all related services and remove all startup items related to whichever program you install. i1Profiler that comes with i1Display Pro uses XRD Gamma or some similar startup item to preserve your profiles - delete that from startup for sure!
- Don't use ICC/.ICM profiles because Windows Color Management system is AWFUL. It often switches profiles on its own for no good reason and it is the worst of ways to enforce your calibration profiles. Delete ALL ICC "Device" tab and "All Profiles" tab profiles that you can. ICC profiles contain more info than games can use and only the LUT portion of ICC profiles is usable by games that do not reset LUT's (through DirectX API, but I am not 100% sure), which is the case for all games that support Borderless FullScreen Window mode and even some that only support FullScreen mode. If, for whatever reason, you want to stick with ICC profiles, use DIspcalGUI management.
- Use LUT-forcing programs, like Monitor Calibration Wizard (MCW), my personal preference. On Windows 8/8.1, install MCW using "Run as Administrator" or else you might have profile issue of profiles being saved in a hard-to-find location instead of the installation folder. Launch MCW the same way, using "Run as Administrator". Do not try to capture & save more than 1 single LUT in MCW until you restart, so for each new LUT you want to capture and save, you need to restart first. It may seem like you don't, but trust me - you DO! MCW works only on one monitor at a time, which would be the default/main/0 or 1 monitor. To use it for multiple monitors, you have to set whichever monitor you want to apply LUT for to being the main/default/0 or 1 monitor. Its a hassle, but IMHO, its well worth it. DispcalGUI, which isn't as forceful as MCW, is another ICC management system and works with both - ICC profiles, LUT profiles, and it is also used as the best software UI for ArgyllCMS calibration software. If you do decide to use DispcalGUI and apply your calibration as an ICC profile, then make sure to delete all the ICC profiles in Windows Color Management system settings like I stated earlier BEFORE you start using DispcalGUI. CPKeeper is yet another program to manage ICC-only profiles and 2 monitors, but it is NOWHERE as good as MCW in terms of forcefulness, and nowhere as good and flexible as DispcalGUI. I would use CPKeeper as the last resort.
- At times it is hard to say if your LUT/calibration was applied to whichever game in / with regular FullScreen mode. To find out if your LUT works in whichever game, create a custom Monitor Calibration Wizard profile with an overly high or overly low gamma that makes the screen waaay too bright or waaay to dark. Apply that LUT to that game. If the game becomes waaay too dark or waaay too bright like your saved LUT, then you know for sure your real/other proper accurate calibration LUT you saved also works just fine in that game. This is another advantage of MCW as you can quickly create such a LUT without the need of figuring out what type of calibration you would need and performing it in DispcalGUI to achieve the waay too dark / too light image using gamma-only.
- Most of the time, switching between 60Hz and 120Hz modes, Normal and LightBoost/ULMB modes will require a separate calibration, which means it is often best to leave OSD/hardware display adjustments, like R, G, and B drives, gamma, brightness, contrast, black level, etc. at the exact value for ALL modes. Perform software-only calibration to obtain LUT's for each mode you plan on using, which will allow you to switch between each captured & saved LUT for each mode you need with a 2-3 mouse clicks. The same applies to LightBoost modes. Measure your calibration in different modes if you don't believe me.
- PM me for more advice or if you have questions/want a thorough guide, but don't do so unless you are willing to spend money at least on ColorMunki Display ($175 retail) or i1Display Pro ($250 retail) colorimeters, to which I have no affiliations or connections of any type! Spyder4 is supposedly more accurate than Spyder3, but it is still no match for i1Display Pro and ColorMunki Display, which are considered to be entry probes for accurate calibration. All the software you'll ever need is 100% $-free and catch-free, aside from requiring you to spend time learning how to use it. I recommend buying ColorMunki Display with Ideal Lume lamp for a total of $240, which is cheaper than i1Display Pro by itself.

Some may call the above worthless crap, BS, etc., and others will disagree. The truth is that the above took me many months to acquire from all sorts of articles, AVS Display Calibration forums, and a seriously huge number of calibrations on my HDTV and my monitors before I could say to myself "I know how to calibrate HDTV's and monitors". Some of it is preference, but the type of preference that would be preferred by those who are aware of all the facts, and some of it are simply facts that cannot be denied. I just know I would've prefer to spend $1500 on the information above than to foolishly spend it on CalMAN v5 Commercial package, which is what I did due to lack of information. Don't make my mistake - CalMAN software has the best graphics interface, but the interface itself is VERY slow and the program itself does not produce nearly as accurate display LUT / 3D LUT profiles as ArgyllCMS. Avoid, avoid, and guess what? AVOID, unless you are highly informed & experienced calibrator, or you are making money off your calibrations, but even then, you can get by with good and free HCFR, which used to be highly outdated, but recently had a 3rd party developer work on it, which made it very friendly with ArgyllCMS, made it support most mainstream colorimeters & spectrophotometers, removed ALL major function-related bugs (such as Black Level animated test not displaying the right grayscale levels), added good bit of needed features and functions (like ITU-R BT.1886 gamma support), and overall made it a tool that both newbies and professionals can depend on.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

Erm, your WB has to be off by a mind-boggling amount to reduce your contrast ratio by that much. My old SPVA came with horrible settings, about 20% more blue for every grayscale level than what 6500K needs. After calibration it lost about 500:1 CR. Most other sets lose anywhere between 200-800 CR, but when we're talking about 4000:1+ CR, 800:1 isn't THAT big of a loss. I've owned VG248QE and calibrated several TN panels. I think the worst case was a loss of 300:1 CR or something like that. I admit, when a TN panel comes with native 800:1 CR, a 300:1 loss can be considered rather big, but have you seen how many people complain about the image quality that they suddenly found acceptable AFTER calibration? At those pathetically low levels, CR is already so low that it no longer compensates for an accurate calibration, which can't really performed, considering that many TN panels have 64 grayscale levels that mimic 255 levels through dithering and all known TN gamma shift issues. A TN panel that comes with a native 800:1 CR that ends up having a 500:1 CR after calibration is considered to be a "500:1 CR TN Panel" if that the value at 6500K.

IPS monitors tend to be far better "factory-calibrated", but can still lose some CR, which, just like with TN panels, is very low. Not fully calibrating an IPS monitor defeats the very point of IPS technology that was designed with color accuracy in mind. Most IPS monitors today have very accurate colorspace (including 0-99% saturation sweeps), but they still need grayscale adjustments for WB and gamma that is another factor that defines how deep or flat the image is. High CR with overly low inaccurate gamma is almost as bad a low CR and accurate gamma when it comes to image depth.

ANY screen out there should have a contrast ratio of AT LEAST 4000:1 if not 5000:1 in my humble opinion. Even with 5000:1 CR, I still use bias lighting because with all the lights off, such a CR still produces rather light grays. Hell, my old folks have a 7500:1 CR Samsung F5350 plasma set that they can't watch without bias light after I showed them how important black levels are and how bias lighting affects our perception of them, even though that TV has a rather low/dim maximum white point (110cd/m^2 I think) that At such low luminance levels, out eyes are immensely sensitive and can tell the difference between 10000:1 and 15000:1 CR with all the lights off, which is why I still value older KURO plasma sets without the front glass cover.

Once and for all:
- Each display unit requires its own calibration. You cannot use an ICC profile someone made for their monitor on yours and expect it to be accurate. There is a 94% chance that someone else's calibration will actually worsen your display accuracy. Follow the next line and measure ICC profiles you obtained elsewhere, but your PC and for your exact panel unit.
- Buy or rent ColorMunki Display or i1Display Pro colorimeter. Spyder colorimeters, including Spyder4Elite, are very inaccurate, which defeats the very idea of calibration.
- Learn how to use HCFR Calibration display accuracy measurement software (3.1.5.0 or later), and DiscaplGUI easy interface software (2.0.0.0 or later) for ArgyllCMS calibration software (x86 1.6.3 or later), all of which are free, work well and support each other. ArgyllCMS is rather new, more accurate than any known LUT / 3DLUT calibration software, but its slow (20-30 minutes for a simple LUT is needed) and it is DOS-command-based (LOL, right?), UNLESS you use it with DispcalGUI, a very good, easy-to-use, Windows-based UI. DispcalGUI is THE UI for ArgyllCMS. For software calibration to be as accurate as it can be, make sure that your 100th % grayscale level, or simply your brightest white point, is calibrated to D65 6500K as close as it possibly can be (up to 100% accuracy), using R, G, and B hardware controls in display's OSD adjustment settings.
- Use D65, 6500K, and BT.1886 Gamma/Tone Curve in your DispcalGUI/ArgyllCMS calibration. Power-law gamma (2.2) will either fully crush low CR TN black levels, or make them too hard to see on 1000:1 CR panels, but most importantly power-law gamma is plain WRONG from color science perspective. Film mastering that supposedly uses power-law 2.2 gamma uses super high-end reference displays with extremely low black levels, which most monitors and even TV's cannot produce, making BT.1886 the only real and acceptable gamma choice.
- Use bias lighting for all low CR displays (IPS, PLS, TN, AHVA, even some MVA) and even good CR displays to greatly improve the perception of black levels you panel produces. PM me for good bias lighting sources if you want.
- Learn how to use Borderless (FullScreen) Window mode in games and how to use "Windowed Borderless Gaming" program to accomplish that for games that do not have a built-in Borderless/Fullscreen Window mode. Borderless Window, Borderless FullScreen Window, FullScreen Window, Window(ed) FullScreen, and etc. are all the same, but different games call it differently. Its just a Window mode, that runs the game in a borlderless window, but uses your display's maximum resolution, looks 100% identical to normal FullScreen mode, and AFAIK (I could be wrong on this one) cannot be used with V-Sync, even if V-Sync box is checked or B-Sync is set to "Enabled", "On", etc.
- Don't use ICC/.ICM profiles because Windows Color Management system is AWFUL. It often switches profiles on its own for no good reason and it is the worst of ways to enforce your calibration profiles. Delete ALL ICC "Device" tab and "All Profiles" tab profiles that you can. ICC profiles contain more info than games can use and only the LUT portion of ICC profiles is usable by games that do not reset LUT's (through DirectX API, but I am not 100% sure), which is the case for all games that support Borderless FullScreen Window mode and even some that only support FullScreen mode. If, for whatever reason, you want to stick with ICC profiles, use DIspcalGUI management.
- Use LUT-forcing programs, like Monitor Calibration Wizard (MCW), my personal preference. On Windows 8/8.1, install MCW using "Run as Administrator" or else you might have profile issue of profiles being saved in a hard-to-find location instead of the installation folder. Launch MCW the same way, using "Run as Administrator". Do not try to capture & save more than 1 single LUT in MCW until you restart, so for each new LUT you want to capture and save, you need to restart first. It may seem like you don't, but trust me - you DO! MCW works only on one monitor at a time, which would be the default/main/0 or 1 monitor. To use it for multiple monitors, you have to set whichever monitor you want to apply LUT for to being the main/default/0 or 1 monitor. Its a hassle, but IMHO, its well worth it. DispcalGUI, which isn't as forceful as MCW, is another ICC management system and works with both - ICC profiles, LUT profiles, and it is also used as the best software UI for ArgyllCMS calibration software. If you do decide to use DispcalGUI and apply your calibration as an ICC profile, then make sure to delete all the ICC profiles in Windows Color Management system settings like I stated earlier BEFORE you start using DispcalGUI. CPKeeper is yet another program to manage ICC-only profiles and 2 monitors, but it is NOWHERE as good as MCW in terms of forcefulness, and nowhere as good and flexible as DispcalGUI. I would use CPKeeper as the last resort.
- At times it is hard to say if your LUT/calibration was applied to whichever game in / with regular FullScreen mode. To find out if your LUT works in whichever game, create a custom Monitor Calibration Wizard profile with an overly high or overly low gamma that makes the screen waaay too bright or waaay to dark. Apply that LUT to that game. If the game becomes waaay too dark or waaay too bright like your saved LUT, then you know for sure your real/other proper accurate calibration LUT you saved also works just fine in that game. This is another advantage of MCW as you can quickly create such a LUT without the need of figuring out what type of calibration you would need and performing it in DispcalGUI to achieve the waay too dark / too light image using gamma-only.
- Most of the time, switching between 60Hz and 120Hz modes, Normal and LightBoost/ULMB modes will require a separate calibration, which means it is often best to leave OSD/hardware display adjustments, like R, G, and B drives, gamma, brightness, contrast, black level, etc. at the exact value for ALL modes. Perform software-only calibration to obtain LUT's for each mode you plan on using, which will allow you to switch between each captured & saved LUT for each mode you need with a 2-3 mouse clicks. The same applies to LightBoost modes. Measure your calibration in different modes if you don't believe me.
- PM me for more advice or if you have questions/want a thorough guide, but don't do so unless you are willing to spend money at least on ColorMunki Display or i1Display Pro colorimeter, to which I have no affiliations or connections of any type! Spyder4 doesn't count - its too inaccurate to be worth using for any display calibration. All the software you'll ever need is 100% $-free and catch-free, aside from requiring you to spend time learning how to use it.

Some may call the above worthless crap, BS, etc., and others will disagree. The truth is that the above took me many months to acquire from all sorts of articles, AVS Display Calibration forums, and a seriously huge number of calibrations on my HDTV and my monitors before I could say to myself "I know how to calibrate HDTV's and monitors". Some of it is preference, but the type of preference that would be preferred by those who are aware of all the facts, and some of it are simply facts that cannot be denied. I just know I would've prefer to spend $1500 on the information above than to foolishly spend it on CalMAN v5 Commercial package, which is what I did due to lack of information. Don't make my mistake - CalMAN software has the best graphics interface, but the interface itself is VERY slow and the program itself does not produce nearly as accurate display LUT / 3D LUT profiles as ArgyllCMS. Avoid, avoid, and guess what? AVOID, unless you are highly informed & experienced calibrator, or you are making money off your calibrations, but even then, you can get by with good and free HCFR, which used to be highly outdated, but recently had a 3rd party developer work on it, which made it very friendly with ArgyllCMS, made it support most mainstream colorimeters & spectrophotometers, removed ALL major function-related bugs (such as Black Level animated test not displaying the right grayscale levels), added good bit of needed features and functions (like ITU-R BT.1886 gamma support), and overall made it a tool that both newbies and professionals can depend on.
I lost attention after the 2nd line once I saw that you wrote a decleration of indpendence.

I assume you wrote good stuff tho haha.
 
Does anyone know how 3 of these can run from a single card? I want to get a GTX880 when it comes out and 3 of these monitors that I plan to keep for a long time, I don't mind lowering the settings and resolution for gaming until I have better cards that can handle it. But I really don't want to buy 3 1080P monitors at this time, they wouldn't last me as long. It would be easy if the GTX880 has multiple DP connectors but that might not happen, DP 1.3 would also give better bandwidth to run all of them from one connector. However if it's still DP 1.2 then I would be limited to arround 50Hz@3x1440P according to my calculations and about 85Hz@3x1080P when running from one connector. Or are there any DVI to Displayport adapters?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelv View Post

Does anyone know how 3 of these can run from a single card? I want to get a GTX880 when it comes out and 3 of these monitors that I plan to keep for a long time, I don't mind lowering the settings and resolution for gaming until I have better cards that can handle it. But I really don't want to buy 3 1080P monitors at this time, they wouldn't last me as long. It would be easy if the GTX880 has multiple DP connectors but that might not happen, DP 1.3 would also give better bandwidth to run all of them from one connector. However if it's still DP 1.2 then I would be limited to arround 50Hz@3x1440P according to my calculations and about 85Hz@3x1080P when running from one connector. Or are there any DVI to Displayport adapters?
the ROG Swift wouldn't really be suitable in a surround setting, the G-Sync only works on the one screen at this time.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threx View Post

Knowing Nvidia, they'll prolly go with a hardware update instead ("G-sync 2.0") so we'll need to buy the new versions. Need to keep squeezing money from us.
wink.gif
I doubt they will do that if it only requires software support. For example when 3D vision was released, it was only supported in single monitor. More than a year later a driver enabled surround without the need for new monitors or glasses. But I bet they made money from that driver regardless because of people buying extra graphics cards to drive 3D surround.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krulani View Post

You can play 3D without glasses?! How do i turn on 3D?!

EDIT: I should specify I have a 144htz monitor and the GPU power to push it.
I should have been more specific, I meant without new glasses. The old glasses could be used for 3D surround. I would be awesome if we could do that without glasses ^^ that might require holography.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelv View Post

I should have been more specific, I meant without new glasses. The old glasses could be used for 3D surround. I would be awesome if we could do that without glasses ^^ that might require holography.
The Nintendo 3DS does it without glasses.

3D works by stereoscopic vision - to do that, you need to present a different image to each eye. Glasses of some kind are the most straightforward way of doing it. Back in the day, they were simple color filters - one red, one blue, and the film was an overlay of red and blue images slightly offset from one another, with the amount of the offset determining whether objects are close or far (the larger the offset, the closer the object appears. The problem is that your brain doesn't like getting two different color signals for the same object, and so eyestrain and headaches were common. 3D largely died out until very recently.

Modern 3D movies use polarization, a recent development. Polarization is nice because it's a fundamentally binary physical property of light, but one that our eyes don't detect. A polarized image will look just like an unpolarized image. Odds are you're staring at one as you read this: the output of LCD displays is very strongly linearly polarized, which you can play with if you have polarized sunglasses. Rotate the sunglasses while looking at the display through them, and the display will fade out to black at a certain angle, then come back nearly to full brightness 90 degrees from that. Modern movies work in the same way, only they use circular polarization, rather than linear. The projector is sending out two different, full-color images of different polarization. The screen reflects the light, but maintains the polarization (this itself is tricky - most things tend to depolarize when they reflect, especially things that make good imaging surfaces - white walls, white paper, that sort of thing). The glasses you wear have a polarizing filter blocks out one of the two polarizations in one eye, and blocks out the other polarization in the other eye. So, when you look at the screen, you see one image with one eye, and one image with the other eye. You can easily tell this by removing the glasses, and you'll see two distinct, overlapping images. The reason this works so much better than the old way is that you're not relying on color to differentiate, so your brain has a far easier time of integrating the two images without as much eyestrain. The other big advantage is that by using circular polarization, it doesn't matter which way you tilt your head.

Desktop 3D is significantly different. Nvidia's 3D vision system uses an active shutter system. The glasses you wear actually literally flip a shutter to allow light in, one eye then the other, synchronized with the monitor's output, while shifting the image on the display frame to frame. This is why you need double the framerate, because half the frames are going to one eye, and half the frames are going to the other eye. They are temporally interlaced, rather than spatially overlapped like a 3D movie. This is because the LCD display can't show more than one image at once. Movies can, because they can set up two projectors.

The 3DS works completely differently, but it still has the goal of sending one image to one eye, and the other image to the other eye. It takes advantage of the fact that with a handheld, just about everyone will hold it at the same distance - about 10 inches. This is caused by our visual biology, specifically the "near point" - the closest you can bring something to your face and focus on it. We want a handheld to be close to us to see it better, but get closer than the near point and it starts to get blurry, so we stop there. Now, the near point does slowly shift outward as we age, but the age group where this happens (40 or so and up) isn't exactly their target demographic, so to speak.

But if you have the display at a known distance, and you know that people will be looking directly at it, then you can start to play some interesting tricks with the optics. The 3DS has a layer in its screen that sends light from half the pixels slightly to the right and the other half of the pixels slightly to the left. The amount of the shift is even adjustable, with the little slide bar on the side, which can exaggerate or diminish the relative depth, or even turn it off completely. The only reason this works is because the engineers who designed this layer know where your eyeballs are - they know how far away they are, and they know the spacing between them (which changes a little bit person to person, but not enough to throw the 3DS off). So, the 3DS is sending the two images directly at your eyeballs, which neither desktop 3D nor movie 3D do, and so it doesn't need filters.

Desktop 3D won't go away from glasses anytime soon, because people use desktop displays in wildly different ways. Some are far away, some are close, some are a bit off-axis, all of those variables throw off the rather specific and narrow angles where glasses-less 3D would work. Moving away from active shutter to the circular polarization style of movies would actually be feasible, as there are objects that will allow you to convert from linear to circular polarization. That would make the glasses cheaper (no electronics needed, no syncing with a display), but it would make the display more expensive as they would have to put down a layer of this material (called a phase ******er) over individual pixels on the display.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post
Show me those reviews, please. I don't know if I will find an exact comparison, but I sure as HELL will trust professional calibrators and at AVS Display Calibration forums over any 3rd party review and for a good reason. When you have highly credible people, who use their actual names as forum usernames to put them on the line for everything they ever say and who have a huge positive rep and experience, listening to the opposite of what practically all of them conclude makes the most sense. Spyder series is inferior to X-Rite i1Display Pro and ColorMunki Display in terms of accuracy. I am quite certain they ran a comparison with a Minolta or JETI1211 reference spectrometer. Even i1Display Pro / ColorMunki Display (they both use the same exact hardware) is nowhere near enough to get accurate results. You need to profile your colorimeter with a known and accurate spectrometer, such as i1Pro / i1Pro 2 / ColorMunki Photo, to really get accurate results. It is also true that not every i1Pro unit is accurate and to be absolutely sure, you would need a reference spectrometer profiling, such as JETI1211 or Klein K-10 or even Minolta, but those cost $5K, $11K, and some very high $K, which makes them very hard to come by! Until I see a large group of pro calibrators use Spyder-series, I'll stick with my i1Display Pro + i1Pro combination
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. You also have to consider display type as different displays have different characteristics. Colorimeters, such as i1Display Pro and even Spyder series are based on display type presets, which may or may not be valid for a specific display unit. Spectrometers, like i1Pro, i1Pro 2, Klein K-10, and JETI 1211, read the actual light output, which is why i1Pro measurements are usually considered more accurate than i1Display Pro measurements. An accurate calibrate is more than just sticking a probe onto your screen and running a calibration wizard. It includes knowledge, the right kind of knowledge that isn't aggregated in any article or review, but needs to be gathered from multiple sources, going through many discussions. It also includes experience, the more the better, and not just with LCD displays, but plasma, projectors, and even good old CRT's, which take forever to calibrate. You also have to use your eyes, which is VERY tricky as our vision tends to adjust to whatever we're looking at. For example, i1Pro is generally more trusted than i1Display Pro and many experienced calibrators and color scientists would trust i1Pro over i1Display Pro any day, but the truth is that i1Pro MAY be less accurate for a specific display if that display unit fits i1Display Pro's display-type preset/profile perfectly. In such a case, it would be wise to trust i1Display Pro. In other cases, you need to profile i1Display Pro with i1Pro, which simply means i1Display Pro will read the display just like i1Pro, but better because spectrometers like i1Pro cannot read low-light levels (they dark grays and blacks), but colorimeters can. How can you tell which one is right? Well, you'll need to do a lot more digging and figuring out on your own to answer that, but ultimately you would need a reference-level spectrometer like JETI1211.

The idea of our eyes adjusting to whichever grayscale is why I decided to cut all this info out of my advice and just tell people to just get i1Display Pro as it should be enough to get a considerably better calibration than whatever factory settings your unit came with. In my experience, which is small in comparison to most pro calibrators, i1Display Pro is more accurate for monitors than it is for TV's. You might ask why not settle for whatever Spyder4 calibration provides if our eyes get used to whatever we calibrate. Well, you could, but there is a threshold there of course. A blue tint is a blue tint, whether your eyes adjust to it or not. Besides, eye adjustment isn't a part of what is known as "Display Calibration", which is all about objective accuracy to fit a specific standard. Why not have your eyes adjust to that accurate picture and make sure you really are seeing the way it was mastered/developed? If you want to take a chance with Spyder series, then at least get Spyder4. Buy both and compare and then bash me for my BS when you find they show identical measurements (not likely) and it MAY be the case for your display. I simply can't help or vouch for any Spyder-series results. I don't want to take any chances with a device series that has been known to be inferior when it came to accuracy and doesn't have any credible calibrators using it. Seeing how ColorMunki Display is only $50 more expensive than Spyder4 (or less/more?), it makes NO sense to go with Spyder series.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


Holy cow, wall o'text.

I got the first line of showing you reviews - it is called Google, and there are plenty of reviews. Even over at the AVS Forums it is a recommended product, by professionals, because they even understand that going above and beyond into the ~$500+ market is going to have diminishing returns. As they are more aligned with professional usage on professional displays that are capable of taking advantage of the more precise calibrations.

Basically - you don't buy the professional line of Colorimeters to use on a display that isn't actually capable of displaying those more detailed colors. If the panel itself isn't capable, then why bother dropping huge stacks on a colorimeter capable of it?

The difference between the before and after on all my displays and even Plasma TV, using the open source HCFR software suggested by AVS is night and day.

EDIT:

Let me sum it up this way, as someone in the calibration field put it - Coke v.s. Pepsi. when comparing the consumer colorimeters (Spyder vs X-rite) it is almost a Coke vs Pepsi.

Neither are perfect, and lack certain capabilities compared to the professional options out there, and many opinions can be found on which is better. In the end it is a cost/personal preference difference and only the individual can decide. Both, however, are capable of providing excellent calibration on consumer displays and are both viable solutions.

As with a number of products out there, if the average Joe/Jane is asking "Which do I get?" I simply say "Get whichever is cheaper/on sale, because they both will work great."
That there is STUPID and if you knew much about calibration, you would NEVER post something like that. "Detailed colors" is a term you just made up and it has no meaning in display calibration. Is it saturation sweep accuracy? Hue accuracy? Each display has a grayscale and a color gamut (colorspace). It is true that with monitors, colorspace is only adjustable on professional displays, those used by photographers and graphics developers. Grayscale, however, can be adjusted on ANY display using either hardware OSD controls or software LUT's if that display is connected to a PC. Grayscale consists of the same R, G, B values as colorspace and many consider it to be more important than the colorspace itself. Gamma, which is a part of grayscale, is a big factor in determining image depth, and getting it right is quite important. Any panel is capable of accurate grayscale, at least for the area where the probe resides on the screen. Yes, there are technology issues, such as uniformity and gamma shift, but the idea is to get your monitor as accurate as possible. Accuracy is key and you want to maximize it as much as you can on your current displays, TV's, and your future panels. Probes (colorimeters, spectrometers) are not rated by how "professional" they are if there is such a thing at all. They are rated by ACCURACY. i1Display Pro/ColorMunki Display is an ENTRY device and so is i1Pro!!! It is the reference-level probes like Klein K-10 and JETI 1211 that are most accurate and it would obviously not be wise to get either unless you are rich or plan on using it for commercial purposes or you own one of those reference-level monitors that require extreme precision. Hell, a JETI 1211 costs $11K and needs re-calibrations which cost an arm and a leg too! I don't see myself advising people to get those super-accuracy probes to calibrate their screens - do you? ColorMunki Display costs $175 retail and $150 or less on eBay! i1Display Pro costs $250 retail, but it can read ambient light, not something many would be interested in. If you also want to profile your colorimeter with a spectrometer, you don't need to spend $450 on i1Pro, you can RENT ColorMunki Photo for $60 and do the same! You can also have 2 highly inaccurate calibrations and guess what - they can look as different as night & day, but neither is accurate, regardless of whether you like it or not because preference is not a part of "Display Calibration".
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

First off, insulting other members is a no-no. Stop it now.

Secondly, "detailed colors" probably refers to the bit depth of the display. It makes zero sense to insist on a professional-grade colorimeter to calibrate a display that only has 6-bit color with dithering. You talk about color gamut, and that is entirely the point. If the display can't produce the gamut the colorimeter can test for, then the colorimeter isn't all that useful and a lower-grade colorimeter will do just fine testing a lower-grade display.
I insulted his post, not him, chill.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I would really love to have a legitimate conversation with you, but I can't because you seem incapable of formatting a proper response. Reading your posts literally strains my eyes and hurts. I would advise refraining from saying something someone else said is stupid when you can't even get basic formatting of the written language down to some readable degree.

For what I was able to pick out of what you said; what in gods name are you arguing? Your ramblings aren't coherent, and frankly you don't appear to be trying to get to a point of any kind.

I don't care how amazing you are at calibration, you aren't a professional, you don't have decades of experience, and are just throwing out what knowledge you have picked up in your search to make your own decision. In the process you are making claims that the Spyder is inaccurate, yet haven't produced (as I originally asked) any actual source to back that claim up. You are the first person i have come across that has said the Spyder shouldn't be purchased for consumer use, let alone due to inaccuracy claims.

So once again, and please try and put it in a readable format, provide a legitimate source that proves the Spyder isn't accurate in the scope of its intended use.
From from Prad.de to TFT Central, no credible monitor-reviewing site uses Spyder-series. Why not if its so accurate? Please show me credible professional calibrators from AVS Display Forum advising Spyder-series! Last I checked, i1Display Pro is advised as the MINIMUM and Spyder-series is looked down upon.
 
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