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AMD 7850K and 2400mhz ram issues. Help Please

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Viralistic

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I will cut right to the chase. First off, my new build:

Case: EVGA Hadron Air mITX (500w 80+ Gold Integrated PSU)
MOBO: MSI A88XI
Processor: AMD A10-7850K (Coolermaster GeminII M4 Heatsink)
RAM: AMD Radeon R9 Gamer Series 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 2400mhz
Graphics: Power Color AMD R9 290x (Reference Design)
Storage: AMD Radeon 480GB SSD

Retail Windows 8.1 OS
All current Windows 8.1 Drivers and Updates
Current BIOS Update on MOBO

(Yes, I should of just bought an Athlon x4 860K. I ended up ordering the graphic card after the fact. If I could return the 7850k I would)

So, I am going to try to keep this short and sweet. After countless hours of troubleshooting my constant BSOD's I have found it to be caused by having my RAM settings in BIOS set to the AMP Profile. (2400mhz 11-12-12-31) If I disable the AMP profile and set it to 2400mhz manually the BSOD's persist. If I just set it to 2133 manually, everything is fine.

So, how do I get this thing stable at 2400mhz? I currently have the CPU OC settings @ 100x40 for 4GHZ with Turbo Disabled. I have not touched the North Bridge but I have heard that I may have to in order to get the 2400mhz out of the ram. My iGPU is completely disabled currently.

The Catch! There is always a catch isn't there? There does not appear to be ANY voltage mods in my BIOS (Other than RAM)

If anyone could help me with this I would greatly appreciate it.

P.S- I know there is no real world difference between 2133 and 2400. Especially being I have the iGPU on the 7850k completely disabled being it will not do anything when I am using the R9 290x. (Or will it? Feel free to correct me on this) I just would like to run my 2400mhz ram at 2400mhz if possible. (My OCD kicking in! I wish I just bought the 2133 set... LOL)

P.S.S- Please spare me any criticism to my build. This is my first PC Build ever! I wanted a mITX system and I really liked the EVGA Hadron Air Case. I went AMD because of the price point and it exceeds my needs.

EDIT: I have given up on running my RAM @2400mhz in this system. The BIOS does not allow me to modify the voltage to my CPU/NB which is needed to utilize the 2400mhz RAM. So 2133 it is. I am ok with this. I am hoping that the next generation of FM2+ Processors from AMD will play nicer with 2400mhz RAM.
 
#2 ·
This is an easy fix. You just need to bump up ram voltage until you are stable. You may need to bump up NB to 2000MHz, and bump that voltage as well. I had problems with 2400MHz as well, but the above solves it.

BTW edit: MSI normally has the option to OC hidden in the bios. Check if there are advanced options in the bios.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by agrims View Post

This is an easy fix. You just need to bump up ram voltage until you are stable. You may need to bump up NB to 2000MHz, and bump that voltage as well. I had problems with 2400MHz as well, but the above solves it.
Click to expand...
I have came across this exact recommendation when I was searching for a solution. I can bump up my NB to 2000mhz no problem. However, I can not adjust the voltage for the CPU period in my BIOS. Not that I can find anyways. Also, my RAM is set to 1.65. My only next option is 1.8.

(I know, my MOBO/BIOS kind of sucks.... LOL)
 
#5 ·
I agree the gigabyte itx is a great board. I have an a88xn with a 7850k in my htpc. I normally run on the IGP at 4.1ghz on stock voltage with the ram at 2133, but I have played with some of my former mining GPU's on it. It definitely needs a bump in NB voltage for 2400 ram 2000 NB. If you can't raise the NB voltage work on tightening your ram timings at 2133. I bet you can get them a lot better. I'm using generic green Samsung HCH9 from late 2011 at 2133 9-11-11-27-38 1T.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all of your input. I am liking this forum already.

I wouldn't mind trying out the Gigabyte ITX but I hate returning stuff that I buy online. I am going to stick with what I have for now. I will just run my 2400mhz ram at 2133 and tighten up the timings. Maybe the next FM2+ top end processor will play nicer with my 2400mhz ram.

Now, as for overclocking my CPU. How far can I push my 7850k being I can't adjust the voltage? Keep in mind my iGPU is completely disabled. Should I just bump it up 100mhz in steps and see if it stays stable?

The more I think about this the more I kind of want to get the gigabyte board.... Why would MSI not have voltage options in the bios on this board??? I'm going to look into it more when I get home.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaduZ View Post

I had mine @4.2 on stock voltage, you can start at 4.1 and test.
Click to expand...
Mine runs well at 4.1 with medium LLC which ends up about 1.25v under load. With extreme LLC it will do 4.2 but this pushes the voltage a bit over 1.3v under load. I built a pc for my parents with a 7850k as well using a cheap Asus A58M board and it did the same with slightly higher stock voltage.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaduZ View Post

I had mine @4.2 on stock voltage, you can start at 4.1 and test.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info. I now have my CPU set at 4.2GHZ (100x42) with turbo disabled. I have been on my computer for hours now with no issues at all. It appears to be stable and no change in temps that I can see as well. This is on stock voltage. (Obviously being my motherboard does not allow me to change the voltage on anything other than my RAM)

I currently have my AMD 2400mhz ram set at 2133. I have not played with the timings at all yet because the settings in the BIOS are rather intimidating... LOL. I could use some help. When I set my RAM to the 2133 the default timings are 14-14-14-37 tRC 51. Is this decent? I will be honest... If it is going to provide no real difference or performance increase from tightening up the timings I would rather just leave it alone. But, if it is going to speed things up a bit, maybe throw me a few extra FPS gaming then I will give it a shot.
 
#10 ·
Those timing are terribly loose but sure to be stable. I would start with 10-11-11-30-41 1Tat 1.65v and run HCI memtest on all 4 cores to 1000% to check for stability. If that passes you can start lowering timings one at a time and test again. If you fail at those settings or it doesn't boot try 10-12-12-30-42. The kit is rated tor CL 11 at 2400 so it should easily work at CL10 2133.
 
#11 ·
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#12 ·
I can tell you that cssorkinman has given you the best advice thus far. Tune your memory by hand. Loosen every timing you can tweak (including the weird secondaries!), set your memory to 2400 mhz @ 1.65v, and then start tightening them down one by one. Here is my usual procedure:

1). Reduce a timing by one step
2). Save and reboot. If it POSTs, repeat step 1)
3). Continue steps 1). and 2). until you find a setting that will not POST. Return to the last setting that will POST and run memtest86+ tests 1-7 to completion. If it throws errors at any point during those tests, back the setting off one more step until you've got it running clean.
4). Move on to the next setting and repeat steps 1-3 for that setting.

Do this for everything except drive strengths. I usually avoid those.

Anyway, you may find that your memory will never be stable @ 2400 mhz. It could be compatibility problems between the RAM's ICs and the Kaveri IMC, or it could be a board problem. If you are going to switch boards, I would recommend the Asus Crossblade Ranger or the Asus A88x-Pro. I have the Pro, and it is a very nice board. In fact, I'm hand-tuning the memory on that as we speak.

edit: when tuning memory, you may have many unrecoverable boot situations where the only option is to reset the board over and over in hopes you can get far enough into the POST process to get to the UEFI/BIOS and fix the faulty setting. The alternative is the reset your UEFI and start over, which sucks. Be careful to make record of all your successful UEFI tweaks so that if you have to reset the UEFI and wipe out your OC profiles (if your board even supports them), you can plug stuff back in by hand. Good OC boards have ways to get around such problems.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
So far I have looked into voltage controls through my BIOS and the MSI Command Center. How stupid is this! You have to use OC Genie to modify voltage on the CPU/CPU NB. That would all be fine but, the OC Genie only supports AMD APU's up to 65w. Makes no sense to me why they did that. So there is no way for me to up the Voltage to my CPU at all. I can only pan the ram between 1.5, 1.65, and 1.8. That's all I get for voltage control on this motherboard.

I am going to try another run at the 2400mhz. I am going to try it set manual at the 2400, and play with the timings. I'm not going to hold my breath though. I have read up on this quite a bit and without increasing the NB Voltage it seems my odds are slim.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viralistic View Post

So far I have looked into voltage controls through my BIOS and the MSI Command Center. How stupid is this! You have to use OC Genie to modify voltage on the CPU/CPU NB. That would all be fine but, the OC Genie only supports AMD APU's up to 65w. Makes no sense to me why they did that. So there is no way for me to up the Voltage to my CPU at all. I can only pan the ram between 1.5, 1.65, and 1.8. That's all I get for voltage control on this motherboard.

I am going to try another run at the 2400mhz. I am going to try it set manual at the 2400, and play with the timings. I'm not going to hold my breath though. I have read up on this quite a bit and without increasing the NB Voltage it seems my odds are slim.
Click to expand...
It's been my experience that OC genie isn't worth messing with, but I don't have your particular board.
 
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Discussion starter · #17 ·
Well I think I have found the sweet spot. (Or so I hope....)

So here is what I found out about my APU / Memory situation. Keep in mind, I can NOT change the voltage levels for the CPU period. Not in bios, not in command center, not in Catalyst Overdrive settings.

1. CPU perfectly stable at 100 x 43 for a solid 4.3ghz clock. (4.4 gives BSOD, probably because of no voltage increase)
2. NorthBridge stable at 1900mhz. (1800mhz was standard, 2000mhz gives BSOD, probably because of no voltage increase)
3. Memory FINALLY stable at 2400mhz with the above settings. Timings are 12-12-12-31 (Can not enable AMP profile. Cas 11 gives BSOD)

I sat on my computer for hours. I defaulted the CPU values in the BIOS and just played with the ram at first. I found that with the AMP profile enabled, I get BSOD. So I set it to 2400 manually and started out at 14-14-14-31. Passed memtest, No issues. I skipped 13's and wen't straight to 12-12-12-31. This caused BSOD and failed memtest. So I bumped up the Northbridge to 1900 mhz. (I remember what happened last time I bumped it to 2000mhz, so I figured I would try 1900mhz) At this time, CPU clocks are still default. With the Northbridge at 1900mhz, ram at 2400mhz 12-12-12-31 I was golden! No issues, no BSOD, passing memtest no problem. So I solved the ram problem. I then disabled Turbo on the CPU and started out at 100x40 for 4.0ghz CPU clock, then wen't up 100mhz in steps until I ran into problems. 100x40/41/42/43 is perfectly fine as far as I can tell. I set it to 100x44 and I was BSOD'ing in no time.

I have been on my computer all night, doing random stuff, gaming, etc with no issues as of yet.

Sum up final result.
AMD A-10 7850k @ 4.3ghz (stock voltage) w/ NB @ 1.9ghz (stock voltage)
AMD Radeon Ram 8GB (2 x 4) @ 2400mhz w/ 12-12-12-31 timings.

Any further recommendations to my current configuration are welcome. I realize that just because everything is working fine as is doesn't mean I'm not potentially hurting or reducing the longevity of my hardware.

Thanks
 
#18 ·
Well I'm not sure about the performance gains from 2133MHz to 2400MHz but there is a somewhat significant gain in games going from 1866MHz to 2400MHz with an 860K (even though the 860K has no IGP and a discrete GPU is being used.) I had similar issues with my 860K, Ripjaws Z 2400MHz, and Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H. At stock CPU speeds/light OCs I can run the RAM at 2400MHz at it's XMP of 10-12-12-31 but with a overclocked CPU it struggles sometimes. At slightly higher overclocks I need to change the CAS 10 to CAS 11 as AMD's 2400MHz RAM. Higher overclocks need the RAM at 2133MHz.

I was going to suggest that instead of going down to 2133MHz at loose timings that you manually loosen your timings at 2400MHz. Obviously someone else suggested that and at 12-12-12-31 those are not horrible if you can be stable with 2400MHz. You're limited to what you can do with no control over voltage so I think you've done all you can. I would try looking AMD Overdrive and see if you can control RAM voltage through the software. If there is an option maybe you can run the memory at AMP settings.
 
#19 ·
Thought I would come back and update. (New User Name, I am original Poster)

I finally have it all stable at 2400mhz! I never did get it working before, no matter what I did I would get random BSOD. Well the other day I noticed a bios update on the MSI website for my board. In notes about the update it said "Improved Memory Compatibility" among other things. So after I flashed it I figured why not give it another try.

I didn't touch anything. No northbridge, no nothing. All I did was change it from 2133 to 2400, saved and rebooted. Been fine all week long and been on it everyday. It had to have been some issue with pairing the ram I purchased with the mobo I purchased.
 
#20 ·
AMD 2133 & 2400MHz rated 4GB modules are not recommended for APUs as they are single sided.
APUs are horribly limited by the lack of bandwidth and single sided modules at 2400MHz are equivalent to 2133MHz on double sided modules in terms of bandwidth.
 
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cssorkinman
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