Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Dying Light, ME: Shadow of Mordor - same engine and same feel? Do AAA games lack originality?

MonarchX · Jan 31, 2015

This is kind of a 2-in-1 thread, a lot like some shampoos

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1. Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Dying Light, ME: Shadow of Mordor seem very similar to me because they probably use the same engine with a few changes here there in addition to different content. Its an open-world sandbox where you have a ton of repetetive missions to complete and use almost identical buttons to search dead bodies, boxes, etc. I mean they are different games, but in many ways they feel like the same thing over again with a different spin. They are also all nVidia-zed. Is this another trick by nVidia? nVidiation-stupid-nation-******ation

? I want my money back - false advertisement - Dying Light is the same as ACU, but in first person and with zombies.

. I don't mind games using same engine as long as it doesn't create a feel that you've played the game before. For example, BF4 and DA:I feel nothing alike. I always assumed it wold be easier to create an engine for the game you were trying to make because you would make sure the engine would accommodate all the game's needs.

2. I think AAA video games today severely lack originality. Not only we have the same engine and severe similarity between the games I described above, but we also have the following games re-mastered: Grim Fandango, Fahrenheit, Metro games, Homeworld games, Heroes of M&M III, Resident Evil, Sleeping Dogs, I am sure I missed a few. I am sure some of it is due to major AAA games requiring a ton of work and money to actually impress people, but it also means developers can't think of anything AAA-level that is fresh and uses its own engine. Or it could mean that people want to stick to already-existing types of genre, not caring much for freshness. I am not sure.

What do you think about these 2 aspects of gaming? Would you rather see have developers take extra time to create specific engine for their games or get better at using already-developed engines? Would you rather have originality or great quality of the same old classic?

I personally think that each game should use its own engine and classic gameplay with excelent content beats any freshness and unique gameplay even with medium-quality content.

iCrap · Jan 31, 2015

Agreed. The games coming out now are all exactly the same. It has nothing to do with nvidia though.... and the engines are actually different in all these games. ACU uses it's own engine (which is terrible). Dying light is different as well.

Katana · Jan 31, 2015

...What? All of these games use different engines. Far Cry 4 uses Dunia 2, Shadow of Mordor uses LithTech, Assassin's Creed uses "AnvilNext", and Dying Light uses Chrome Engine.

nVidiazed isn't a word. All of these games had direct cooperation between the game company and NVidia to make sure the card's optimizations were used correctly. NVidia didn't influence the game's design or mission structure. If you don't want games that are similar to each other, buy games that look extremely different. If you're tired of zombie games but you keep buying them, you only have yourself to blame.

Remastering makes sense with some of gaming's celebrated history. Lots of people miss out on classic games when they come out for its original system, but contrary to popular belief, such games don't always age perfectly well, and might not be as fun to play given slight changes in expectations (the adding of an Autosave system, or decent tutorials, etc). So, putting in a little extra work to revitalize the game and make it interesting for audiences that know of it, but never played it, is good for everyone. If you're not interested in remasters, that's fine.

If you want games that are different from what you've played, you may have to look for them, and they might not necessarily have as superb graphics as most of the AAA releases. I'm betting if you look through the games on an obscure site like GamersGate.com, or look at recommendations from various YouTube personalities/Let's Players, you might find something you'd enjoy.
(GamersGate.com has nothing to do with the Twitter thing)

Sadmoto · Jan 31, 2015

Sadly these companies have just turned making video games into an equation to get the most profit out of the least amount of investment, genre or style of game is just filler. Originality is almost never welcomed into games anymore, from a business perspective just because its a gamble with lots of money, sometimes it pays over REALLY big but most times they won't see any huge profits because they add in some new feature, everyone is following the call of duty way now and its because we keep giving them money to do so.

All the games you've listed I've had fun playing, no doubt but its hard to not see the pattern these companies are following.

Shadows of mordor I bet was probably one of their better profitting games for ubisoft just because they probably reused 75% of the coding and animations as the AC series, it was just a lord of the rings skin stretched over it. But that way they didn't have to pay the man hours of creating new movement animations, coding and more, In a way its smart to reuse and not waste time but it does give you that feeling that your just playing assassins creed but your slaying orcs so it truly doesn't feel like an original game.

Deicidium · Jan 31, 2015

the sad truth is, MANY people really buy that games and PATRONIZE the company. Because of that, the same mistake, same buggy game, same crap story will be released over and over again.

it's like "yeah, our AC Unity is a massive hit eventhough it's buggy, why not we make another buggy Assassins Creed title again next year."

Slink3Slyde · Jan 31, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadmoto

Sadly these companies have just turned making video games into an equation to get the most profit out of the least amount of investment, genre or style of game is just filler. Originality is almost never welcomed into games anymore, from a business perspective just because its a gamble with lots of money, sometimes it pays over REALLY big but most times they won't see any huge profits because they add in some new feature, everyone is following the call of duty way now and its because we keep giving them money to do so.

All the games you've listed I've had fun playing, no doubt but its hard to not see the pattern these companies are following.

Shadows of mordor I bet was probably one of their better profitting games for ubisoft just because they probably reused 75% of the coding and animations as the AC series, it was just a lord of the rings skin stretched over it. But that way they didn't have to pay the man hours of creating new movement animations, coding and more, In a way its smart to reuse and not waste time but it does give you that feeling that your just playing assassins creed but your slaying orcs so it truly doesn't feel like an original game.

I completely agree with the first part of your statement, although I think that some of the 'clone' games are a lot better done then others. I had some fun with Far Cry 3 to be fair to UBI. I dont feel like I need to rush for 4 though, it looks like the same thing with elephants.

No one wants to take a risk thats true, some companies at least make an effort to make their cloned games well polished.

I have to say Shadow of Mordor had nothing to do with UBIsoft though. Different publisher, different engine, different studio, there was a claim by some guy from UBI that they had ripped off AC games before it came out though.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/former-ubisoft-developer-accuses-shadow-of-mordor-of-using-code-from-assassin-s-creed/1100-6417307/

Probably because he realized it was going to be a lot better then AC (it was)

Personally having played SOM and a couple of AC games most recently Black Flag (free with 780), SOM felt a lot more polished and a lot more fun then the AC games, the combat was a hell of a lot smoother (straight out of Batman of course). I'd much rather have a smaller more polished world like SOM then a massive world of semi broken cookie cutter 'content' like AC Black flag where my brain starts to dribble out of my ears before I'm 15 hours in.

@monarchx

I am completely up for some game remakes, I think with the way game technology advances its a lot more relevant to remake games then other forms of media like films for instance. I will form a one man riot if they ever try to remake Back to the Future

I dont think you can complain about studios reusing engines and assests to much, if you take a look at the end game credits for any triple AAA game I cant imagine how they would ever turn a profit if they built an engine from the ground up every single time, and as you say because the engine is the same it doesnt mean the games have to be, but if people are dumb enough to buy the same thing over and over again, then business is business and it happens across every form of media.

If you want something different start buying and supporting indie games, some of the most fun I've had in ages gaming is playing stuff like This War of Mine, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, Banner Saga, Stanley Parable, The Swapper and there's a lot more I need to try. All of these offer unique gameplay and feel you wont find anywhere else. It's always with the indie stuff in any form of entertainment that the innovation happens, and its great that places like Steam have made them so much more accessible, even if you have to put up with the odd 'Bread Simulator'

.

MonarchX · Feb 1, 2015

Do all these engines use some underlying engine from which they were based? For example, many earlier COD games were based on Quake 3 engine, but they named their COD engines differently because they changed the overall engine code. Could the same thing be happening with Dying Light, Far Cry 3 and 4, ACU, ME: SoM, etc? I mean don't hate, but when your mechanics of picking up loot consists of holding a similar button until the circle/rectangle fills up, as well as, opening loot boxes, having sand-box territories, having very similar map UI, and even graphics having similar feel to it.... Am I just going nuts for seeing similarities and feeling as if these games are using similar engines, but with different content?

MonarchX · Feb 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slink3Slyde

I completely agree with the first part of your statement, although I think that some of the 'clone' games are a lot better done then others. I had some fun with Far Cry 3 to be fair to UBI. I dont feel like I need to rush for 4 though, it looks like the same thing with elephants.

No one wants to take a risk thats true, some companies at least make an effort to make their cloned games well polished.

I have to say Shadow of Mordor had nothing to do with UBIsoft though. Different publisher, different engine, different studio, there was a claim by some guy from UBI that they had ripped off AC games before it came out though.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/former-ubisoft-developer-accuses-shadow-of-mordor-of-using-code-from-assassin-s-creed/1100-6417307/

Probably because he realized it was going to be a lot better then AC (it was)

Personally having played SOM and a couple of AC games most recently Black Flag (free with 780), SOM felt a lot more polished and a lot more fun then the AC games, the combat was a hell of a lot smoother (straight out of Batman of course). I'd much rather have a smaller more polished world like SOM then a massive world of semi broken cookie cutter 'content' like AC Black flag where my brain starts to dribble out of my ears before I'm 15 hours in.

@monarchx

I am completely up for some game remakes, I think with the way game technology advances its a lot more relevant to remake games then other forms of media like films for instance. I will form a one man riot if they ever try to remake Back to the Future

I dont think you can complain about studios reusing engines and assests to much, if you take a look at the end game credits for any triple AAA game I cant imagine how they would ever turn a profit if they built an engine from the ground up every single time, and as you say because the engine is the same it doesnt mean the games have to be, but if people are dumb enough to buy the same thing over and over again, then business is business and it happens across every form of media.

If you want something different start buying and supporting indie games, some of the most fun I've had in ages gaming is playing stuff like This War of Mine, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, Banner Saga, Stanley Parable, The Swapper and there's a lot more I need to try. All of these offer unique gameplay and feel you wont find anywhere else. It's always with the indie stuff in any form of entertainment that the innovation happens, and its great that places like Steam have made them so much more accessible, even if you have to put up with the odd 'Bread Simulator'

.

I want games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution (Director's Cut). You can tell the game uses either its own engine or one different from today's games and the games that were released around that time. It feels as if the engine was specifically tailored towards Deus Ex universe, although the game severely lacks dark environments.

Slink3Slyde · Feb 1, 2015

http://www.moddb.com/engines/crystal-dynamics-engine

Looks like Deus ex used a modified version of the above engine

I know what you mean by games feeling similar, really. Something like Deus Ex HR goes to show that if the developers put some effort in it is possible to differentiate a bit while not building from the ground up. I'm pretty sure the only reason we see similar game mechanics in wide open worlds with AAA games is because it has already been proven to sell. If it aint broke don't fix it (if it makes money, to be clear on that ).

MonarchX · Feb 1, 2015

Oh I think I know! Maybe all the engines used for Far Cry 3, 4, Dying Light, and ACU are based off Unreal engine?? Maybe? No?

RaleighStClair · Feb 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonarchX

Oh I think I know! Maybe all the engines used for Far Cry 3, 4, Dying Light, and ACU are based off Unreal engine?? Maybe? No?

No. You should probably do a little research if this really interests you.

UZ7 · Feb 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonarchX

Oh I think I know! Maybe all the engines used for Far Cry 3, 4, Dying Light, and ACU are based off Unreal engine?? Maybe? No?

Cry Engine = Far Cry 1 -> Dunia = Far Cry 2 -> Dunia 2 -> Far Cry 3/4

Cry Engine 2 = Crysis -> Cry Engine 3 = Crysis 2/3.. there were some instances that 3 was used for Crysis 1 in the development for console.

Cry Engine 4 you'll see in titles such as Evolve and Ryse.

For Assassin's creed titles it was pretty much:
Scimitar -> Anvil -> AnvilNext.. there was some instances that they used the same vegetation technology as Far Cry 2 but didn't use the same engine as quoted "· The same internal vegetation technology used in Far Cry 2 "

For Dying Light, that uses the Chrome Engine:
Chrome Engine 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6
With 5 seen in Dead Island/Riptide and Call of Juarez
6 is seen in Dying LIght

Shadows of Mordor uses LithTech engine and previous variants you've seen with Monolith Productions such FEAR

So while gameplay may be similar for some games, they do not have the same engine, you'd have to go back to the history of where it derived from, though most games do derive from Unreal based engine or modified version. Kinda like Quake (some code) -> GoldSrc -> Source Engine seen in valve titles.

Now some games may seem the same in terms of game style like first person shooter, 3rd person/assassin style or sandbox game but that can be said with everything. I can say oh prince of persia, assassin's creed, shadow of mordor, gta titles all seem the same, but its more or less the game style rather than engine. Now some games will run better on some hardware because like previously mentioned they're tweaked or were worked on side by side with graphics card tweakers and developers making games run similarly after a new engine or game title has been released.

Now overall though some codes maybe rehashed or seen in other engine and it may or may not be a gray area.. this is as much as producers making music and such so hope they dont see a copy and paste lol. Some games you can look at and can tell what engine they used if you're into playing a ton of games and researching the background. Some games its harder to tell, and some you're surprised isnt the one you were guessing at

MonarchX · Feb 2, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by UZ7

Cry Engine = Far Cry 1 -> Dunia = Far Cry 2 -> Dunia 2 -> Far Cry 3/4

Cry Engine 2 = Crysis -> Cry Engine 3 = Crysis 2/3.. there were some instances that 3 was used for Crysis 1 in the development for console.

Cry Engine 4 you'll see in titles such as Evolve and Ryse.

For Assassin's creed titles it was pretty much:
Scimitar -> Anvil -> AnvilNext.. there was some instances that they used the same vegetation technology as Far Cry 2 but didn't use the same engine as quoted "· The same internal vegetation technology used in Far Cry 2 "

For Dying Light, that uses the Chrome Engine:
Chrome Engine 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6
With 5 seen in Dead Island/Riptide and Call of Juarez
6 is seen in Dying LIght

Shadows of Mordor uses LithTech engine and previous variants you've seen with Monolith Productions such FEAR

So while gameplay may be similar for some games, they do not have the same engine, you'd have to go back to the history of where it derived from, though most games do derive from Unreal based engine or modified version. Kinda like Quake (some code) -> GoldSrc -> Source Engine seen in valve titles.

Now some games may seem the same in terms of game style like first person shooter, 3rd person/assassin style or sandbox game but that can be said with everything. I can say oh prince of persia, assassin's creed, shadow of mordor, gta titles all seem the same, but its more or less the game style rather than engine. Now some games will run better on some hardware because like previously mentioned they're tweaked or were worked on side by side with graphics card tweakers and developers making games run similarly after a new engine or game title has been released.

Now overall though some codes maybe rehashed or seen in other engine and it may or may not be a gray area.. this is as much as producers making music and such so hope they dont see a copy and paste lol. Some games you can look at and can tell what engine they used if you're into playing a ton of games and researching the background. Some games its harder to tell, and some you're surprised isnt the one you were guessing at

Thank you very much for taking your time and explaining this!

Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Dying Light, ME: Shadow of Mordor - same engine and same feel? Do AAA games lack originality?

MonarchX

iCrap

Katana

Sadmoto

Deicidium

Slink3Slyde

MonarchX

MonarchX

Slink3Slyde

MonarchX

RaleighStClair

UZ7

MonarchX

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