BenQ XL2720Z Color Banding ?

addicTix · Apr 24, 2015

Hello guys,

I just noticed some artefacts in games and steam client, it looks like color banding to me.
What do you think about that ? And how can I avoid it ?

I'm using my BenQ XL2720Z with DVI ( the original one, which BenQ gave me with this Monitor )
Here a few examples with this problem, which is very annoying:

http://imgur.com/a/t0p72
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891538400188155/DF5BE02E5B06C9455AA3EE317AFABFBF05E266A5/ ( GTA V sky at night )
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/531762015788888738/4BE59EA171BA3B27EB0C19F1C6F80F8BE7DB0697/ ( PayDay 2 sky at night )
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BypVrDy2YBLZN0VVO***RXFqRGM/view?usp=sharing ( GTA V Smartphone - btw, link is censored because the *** is W.t.F without .)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BypVrDy2YBLZeHRaT05nZEM2M0E/view?usp=sharing ( GTA V with opened Steam overlay )
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BypVrDy2YBLZMVNPUjV5MjFiQ2M/view?usp=sharing ( Steam prodcut activation window )
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891538403754323/2B9936E15B75B4B8AFFD9D8F6D530BB53CDFDB93/ ( GTA V sky at day )
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891538404499246/3567E49B7266403D857C37DCCCD6480C31A5ED56/ ( GTA V sky at day² )

It just looks so terrible... Its not fun to play games with those artefacts
Hope anybody knows how to avoid that

Regards,
addicTix

Falkentyne · Apr 24, 2015

The last two pictures look normal.
The steam activation window/store banding background issue happens on tons of screens, and people have complained about it.

The first three pictures look horrible.

I have payday 2 but I don't play it.
How can I test a night map if I don't play the game?
is there any way for me to load up a night map and run around quickly?

How does this test look?
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php#gradient-h.png

Here's another old forum post.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/569903/color-banding-looks-bad-/

Seems like the presence of fog just makes banding stick out.
might be an issue with 6 bit +FRC tn panels. CRT's don't usually do this. not sure about 8 bit panels, though.

addicTix · Apr 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falkentyne

The last two pictures look normal.
The steam activation window/store banding background issue happens on tons of screens, and people have complained about it.

The first three pictures look horrible.

I have payday 2 but I don't play it.
How can I test a night map if I don't play the game?
is there any way for me to load up a night map and run around quickly?

How does this test look?
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php#gradient-h.png

Here's another old forum post.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/569903/color-banding-looks-bad-/

Seems like the presence of fog just makes banding stick out.
might be an issue with 6 bit +FRC tn panels. CRT's don't usually do this. not sure about 8 bit panels, though.

I don't know if you can play through night maps in PayDay 2 if you don't own this game. I don't think so.
Here is gradient Test, I can't see any banding like in PayDay 2 or GTA V:

But I found a official GTA V PC Screenshot in 4K which also shows color banding:
http://media.rockstargames.com/rockstargames/img/global/news/upload/gtav02272015_1.jpg

Its really strange, I also thought about the 6 bit Panel of the XL2720Z... But I'm not sure if this is the problem.

Falkentyne · Apr 24, 2015

Do you notice the fogging?

I'm pretty sure that the problem is dithering
It's a common occurance when you have fog (dithered) showing on a color gradient in layers.
You get banding.

Have you noticed that in 'most' desktop pictures of real life nature/scenery/clouds, there is very little or no banding?
But in computer generated images there is tons of it, especially when fog/clouds are involved?

addicTix · Apr 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falkentyne

Do you notice the fogging?

I'm pretty sure that the problem is dithering
It's a common occurance when you have fog (dithered) showing on a color gradient in layers.
You get banding.

Have you noticed that in 'most' desktop pictures of real life nature/scenery/clouds, there is very little or no banding?
But in computer generated images there is tons of it, especially when fog/clouds are involved?

What fogging ?
I didn't noticed that yet.
So what do you mean exactly ? Do you mean this banding problem is normal ?
And yes, I noticed banding on real life pictures.
But it wasn't annoying yet, maybe because I usually don't view real life pictures on my monitor
I noticed this banding problem mostly in games.

So what can I do against this banding problem ?
Nothing ?
I mean, this banding crap is maybe the worst thing I've ever noticed in games yet.

Strider49 · Apr 24, 2015

I think you have have to adjust you brightness/gamma/contrast in order to mask this color banding in dark areas and skies in games. If you can't achieve this, maybe the problem lies in the TN panel? Or maybe your monitor is faulty?

I've got a ROG Swift, which sports a 8-bit TN panel, and the amount of banding in the night sky of games with a day/night cycle, like GTA V, is as bad as yours in PayDay 2. Maybe even worse... I can see halos around buildings during night in GTA V, pretty disgusting, and I cannot for the life of me get rid of it, no matter the adjustments in the OSD or the ICC profile used.

On the other hand, on my TV, which is IPS and is connected to the same PC, I can barely notice it. It's day and night. I'm already in touch with ASUS support because of this problem.

Falkentyne · Apr 24, 2015

Yeah this problem has popped up in forum posts from time to time.
In almost every case, it's not the monitor at fault.

If the lagom gradient test looks smooth (its 256 shades so it will show the changes if you look closely enough) then your monitor is fine.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
If this test looks "mostly" smooth, with some very faint hint of vertical lines at certain transitions, your screen is fine.

addicTix · Apr 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider49

I think you have have to adjust you brightness/gamma/contrast in order to mask this color banding in dark areas and skies in games. If you can't achieve this, maybe the problem lies in the TN panel? Or maybe your monitor is faulty?

I've got a ROG Swift, which sports a 8-bit TN panel, and the amount of banding in the night sky of games with a day/night cycle, like GTA V, is as bad as yours in PayDay 2. Maybe even worse... I can see halos around buildings during night in GTA V, pretty disgusting, and I cannot for the life of me get rid of it, no matter the adjustments in the OSD or the ICC profile used.

On the other hand, on my TV, which is IPS and is connected to the same PC, I can barely notice it. It's day and night. I'm already in touch with ASUS support because of this problem.

Well I was looking for the Rog Swift... But if the rog swift has the same problems, then it shouldn't be the problem of the monitor, like Falkentyne said.
BUT my TV is also connected to the PC, it also got a IPS Panel and it looks better on it, almost no banding. It looks much better imo. Very strange. As you said, could be a TN Problem.
But the input lag and only 60Hz... hurts my eyes while playing PC games on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falkentyne

Yeah this problem has popped up in forum posts from time to time.
In almost every case, it's not the monitor at fault.

If the lagom gradient test looks smooth (its 256 shades so it will show the changes if you look closely enough) then your monitor is fine.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
If this test looks "mostly" smooth, with some very faint hint of vertical lines at certain transitions, your screen is fine.

Hm I can't see any problems in this test, looks very smooth to me.
So ... No reason to change monitor I guess ?

Falkentyne · Apr 24, 2015

It's fine.
Just make sure you use standard mode, don't put contrast above 43, brightness 100, RGB 100/98/96 or 100/100/92 depending on what you find best. FPS 1 mode (FPS1 and FPS2 are identical except for different black equalizer defaults) have some strange color balance sesttings, particularly in the red channel, and yellow appears less vibrant. The RTS preset changes the light blue balance drastically (Neither of these presets can be emulated by any changes if using standard mode; they are low level calibrations).

Strider49 · Apr 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by addicTix

Well I was looking for the Rog Swift... But if the rog swift has the same problems, then it shouldn't be the problem of the monitor, like Falkentyne said.
BUT my TV is also connected to the PC, it also got a IPS Panel and it looks better on it, almost no banding. It looks much better imo. Very strange. As you said, could be a TN Problem.
But the input lag and only 60Hz... hurts my eyes while playing PC games on it.

Yeah, my TV hurts my eyes too, and I can't really game on it because of 60Hz only and the lack of G-Sync. But the banding on the Swift has been ruining my experience in GTA V and other games. I'm using PC Monitors' ICC profile, and the colors really pop out on the desktop, but the amount of banding in games is unacceptable. Maybe TN isn't for me.

addicTix · Apr 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falkentyne

It's fine.
Just make sure you use standard mode, don't put contrast above 43, brightness 100, RGB 100/98/96 or 100/100/92 depending on what you find best. FPS 1 mode (FPS1 and FPS2 are identical except for different black equalizer defaults) have some strange color balance sesttings, particularly in the red channel, and yellow appears less vibrant. The RTS preset changes the light blue balance drastically (Neither of these presets can be emulated by any changes if using standard mode; they are low level calibrations).

Oh.... When I use this settings, the Picture Quality is absolutley unacceptable. The whole picture looks washed out, its way too "bright", looks like when you put gamma in games way too high ( I changed gamma setting to Gamma 5 in Standard mode )....
I'm currently using this settings:

Picture Mode: Movie
Brightness: 100
Contrast: 50
RGB: 79/77/82
Black eQualizer: 0
Override: High
Instantmode: On
Sharpness: 7

Looks way better for me.
It doesn't looks too washed out
White looks more white and not yellow

Also the AG Coating on XL2720Z is ... out of this world.
In games, it looks like you're playing with a dirty panel or something.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider49

Yeah, my TV hurts my eyes too, and I can't really game on it because of 60Hz only and the lack of G-Sync. But the banding on the Swift has been ruining my experience in GTA V and other games. I'm using PC Monitors' ICC profile, and the colors really pop out on the desktop, but the amount of banding in games is unacceptable. Maybe TN isn't for me.

Yeah the only monitor which comes with IPS, 144Hz, 1440p and Gsync is XB270HU at the moment... But the availability is so bad, at least in germany.
Asus MG279Q comes also with IPS, 144Hz and 1440p but with Free Sync instead of Gsync, which is useless for me ( I have Nvidia graphics card )
Thats why I wanted to buy a Rog Swift. I thought the 8 bit panel would solve my Color Banding Problem in games, but well... It seems like it doesn't. But then there's Gsync on the other side, which makes everything look smoother, even with lower framerates and it eliminates this annoying tearing ( which would be super awesome for GTA V ) without any framedrops...

But I'm wondering why I have those color banding problems in games but in Gradient test, it looks fine...
Games fault ?
But if it's games fault, why it looks better on my IPS TV ( well, you can still see color banding, but it looks much better than on my XL2720Z )

airisom2 · Apr 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by addicTix

Oh.... When I use this settings, the Picture Quality is absolutley unacceptable. The whole picture looks washed out, its way too "bright", looks like when you put gamma in games way too high ( I changed gamma setting to Gamma 5 in Standard mode )....
I'm currently using this settings:

Picture Mode: Movie
Brightness: 100
Contrast: 50
RGB: 79/77/82
Black eQualizer: 0
Override: High
Instantmode: On
Sharpness: 7

Tried your settings on my XL2720Z, and there are a couple problems. 1. Movie mode saturates the colors 2. blacks are crushed 3. Gamma is off 4. slight oversharpening 5. movie mode doesn't allow Blur Reduction.

These are the settings I use:

Picture Mode: Standard (standard mode has the best color accuracy and most customization vs. other modes)
Brightness: 100
Contrast: 51
RGB: 100/98/96
AMA: High
IM: On
Sharpness: 6
Gamma: 5

In AMD CCC Desktop Color Settings
RGB Gamma: .70/.95/.95 (May have to fine tune depending on your seating height. Use this.)

Running too much saturation, too much contrast, or wonky gamma settings can encourage and emphasize banding. Because this is a TN panel, you aren't going to get those IPS colors without some sacrifice to color accuracy. Then again, when this monitor is calibrated properly, it has nearly perfect grayscale tracking and one of the best color accuracies of high refresh rate TN panels, beating the ROG Swift in some areas.

Falkentyne · Apr 25, 2015

Oh yeah, guys,
Make sure you update your XL2720Z firmware to Version 4, if you use blur reduction.
It massively improves the overdrive of the default AMA high setting and adds a second AMA high hidden setting (if you retoggle AMA high after BBR Is enabled already), changes the overdrive balance to remove all overshoot (but the increase in normal ghosting means you need to lower the contrast to 0-10.

If you're using V2 with blur reduction now, V4 makes the monitor look like a completely new panel (as long as you are also using vertical total tweaks (I use VT 1500 at 100 hz and 120 hz, with the AMD pixel clock patcher over DVI).

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewforum.php?f=13

and @op:
If you are not using blur reduction, use brightness 20-30, not 100. 100 brightnes is for when using blur reduction.

addicTix · Apr 27, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by airisom2

These are the settings I use:

Picture Mode: Standard (standard mode has the best color accuracy and most customization vs. other modes)
Brightness: 100
Contrast: 51
RGB: 100/98/96
AMA: High
IM: On
Sharpness: 6
Gamma: 5

In AMD CCC Desktop Color Settings
RGB Gamma: .70/.95/.95 (May have to fine tune depending on your seating height. Use this.)

Tried your settings, this is what it looks like in GTA V now

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891784916769397/972EBFEE34F4A969E5BBCF521C804775FC8B3C2E/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891784916769581/66BF4F32875E9B11003C930B4E7637918FCBF959/

I mean, it does look better now, and it doesn't look so bad on screenshots.
But if you play it and you're moving around and all that stuff, the banding is flickering.
And that's just completely annoying....
But thanks for settings, I'll use them now, because Steam looks also much better with those settings, as you can see here: http://i.imgur.com/Y5ByCw4.png

The problem is: in Gradient test, I can see banding now.
Its not smooth, I can see lines now in it.

airisom2 · Apr 27, 2015

Seeing subtle lines in a gradient picture is perfectly normal for a 6bit+FRC panel. If you want less banding, you'll have to up to a true 8bit or 10bit panel.

addicTix · Apr 27, 2015

Well... I think I have to deal with it.
Acer XB270HU is almost not available in germany and there's no other monitor with IPS, Gsync and 144Hz

But why is the monitor still too bright with the settings ? :
Picture Mode: Standard
Brightness: 30
Contrast: 43
RGB: 100/98/96
AMA: High
IM: On
Sharpness: 7
Gamma: 5

It looks like Gamma is still too high. I had to reduce it with nvidia control panel, otherwise the picture is way too bright ... If I don't do that, black is not black. Its too bright

Falkentyne · Apr 27, 2015

Blacks are never going to be black on a TN Screen.
You need a VA Screen for that. A much higher static contrast ratio should help. And only CRTs and CRT projectors and laser projectors (e.g. Pico pico) will have TRUE blacks.

You can increase the black depth on XL2720Z by using the FPS1 (or FPS2) preset and setting the black equalizer to 0. This will have an even greater impact than the "gamma 5" setting in standard mode. But this does wonders for the color gain balance and also changes the gamma also (black equalizer values 0 and 1 use gamma 5, as far as I know; In any mode that black equalizer works in, gamma adjustments are disabled. In any mode that gamma adjustments are allowed (Standard, etc), EQ is disasbled.

kalston · Apr 27, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by airisom2

Seeing subtle lines in a gradient picture is perfectly normal for a 6bit+FRC panel. If you want less banding, you'll have to up to a true 8bit or 10bit panel.

8 bit isn't even enough, true 8 bit panels have banding too. And good 6+FRC panels look practically indistinguishable from true 8 bit panels for that matter. Some of the banding we see on those 1440p has to do with low quality textures being upscaled (and if you change the colours on your panel through software you are going to add some amount of banding with nvidia cards).

For example the nvidia site background is pretty ugly on my Swift but if I look at it on the 1024x600 TN panel of my old laptop it looks pretty okay.

And my Swift fares very very well on the gradient tests from Lagom or the Eizo app, even after using an ICC profile. But I can still see banding in some games. However high res pictures and blu-ray look absolutely perfect and smooth with no banding. But I'm using madvr and high quality upscaling algorithms to achieve that

Youtube 1080p vids look disgusting on the other hand

BenQ XL2720Z Color Banding ?

addicTix

Falkentyne

addicTix

Falkentyne

addicTix

Strider49

Falkentyne

addicTix

Falkentyne

Strider49

addicTix

airisom2

Falkentyne

addicTix

airisom2

addicTix

Falkentyne

kalston

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