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Z170-generation motherboard fan control?

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mikeaj

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
With a new chipset and lineup of motherboards usually comes some new features up and down (or partially down) the product stack for the motherboard manufacturers in a vain attempt at differentiation in the modern era of chipsets and CPUs themselves providing the vast majority of functionality on boards. And yet again, a lot of these are not necessarily well documented, while others are evolutionary changes that aren't focuses of marketing.

Cutting to the chase, does anybody have any idea which Z170 boards support which kinds of fan control on which fan headers in response to which temperature readings or other forms of input?

I believe starting from Z97, most Asus boards (the ones labeled with Fan Xpert 3) support both DC and PWM control on every fan header. I assume most Z170 boards retain this feature. Great, but how about everyone else?

For every manufacturer in a long time, the CPU fan header support PWM and usually DC control too, with the rest being anyone's guess. Sometimes some of the other headers have DC control, with occasionally PWM being available on some of the others (and sometimes not even if the headers have 4 pins). Others just do fan speed readings. You have no idea, even after trying to read the manuals, until you buy and test the thing. Sometimes the only automatic fan control is in response to CPU temperatures. Some may or may not have more advanced capability with Windows-based software utilities from the manufacturer and/or 3rd-party utilities like SpeedFan.

Finding which overclocking features and controls available on specific low-mid tier boards is hard enough. As far as I can tell, finding the fan control functionality on specific products is next to impossible, but I hope someone will prove me wrong.
 
#2 ·
Great questions!
I'd like to know how the fan controls work too. It's not much use is EVERY fan relies on only CPU temp to adjust itself - that could mean some very toasty HDDs!. What is needed is something akin to 3rd party s/w controllers like Speedfan, where it can monitor overall CPU as well as individual cores, the motherboard heat sensors, GFx card and any HDD, and then allow thresholds to turn the fans up when it is reached on ANY one of those sensors.

From what I saw of BIOS and s/w videos on youtube for Z97 boards, people just weren't explaining what was possible. ASUS looks like it might be the best one, at least reviews seems to say Fan Xpert 3 is "likely the only fan controller you'll need", but that doesn't tell explain perfectly how it works, and what is available.

I'll certainly do some more digging and see just what I can find though. Hopefully some owners/users of these boards can chime in with their experiences and findings.
 
#3 ·
Wondering same thing. The version of AISuite that came with my Asus Z170-A did not include fan control software! (Fan Xpert) which had been in previous versions of AISuite. When I use the BIOS Qfan utility to adjust speeds it doesn't seem to stick when I boot into Windows.
 
#4 ·
Looking here:
(9 mins : 41 seconds)

"One of the things that a lot of users overlook and don't necessarily under stand is that the fan controls respond to temperature input sources. Now generally when you talk about your temperature input sources, all of them are gonna be generally referenced from the CPU, meaning that every single header that you have on here responds to the CPU temperature. If you think about that, that's fairly course, and in some situations you'd rather actually have it respond to a different temperature input source. So for this generation we've gone ahead and incorporated that. So you have temperature input source from the CPU, from the VRM, as well as from the PCH and from the motherboard [near SATA headers], as well as from an optional temp sensor here [connected to the temp_sensor header]. Now that optional temp sensor can really be placed wherever you'd like: it can be placed on top of your hard drive array; can be placed on the back of a graphics card; or can be attached to a portion of your chassis."

This, to me, says it's like SpeedFan in that wherever there is a temperature sensor, different fans can be assigned to that sensor. So for instance, If the PCH gets hot the case intake fan can speed up, whilst leaving the CPU fan, and exhaust fan as it is.

Fan Xpert 3 / Z97
I just saw this
(3 mins : 26 seconds)

It would appear that the user can set the source temperature sensor for that particular fan.

However, what isn't being addressed is if multiple sources can be defined, or if that fans speed is based only on the particular source sensor selected.

Look at these scenarios:

Scenario 1: CPU gets warmer.
The CPU fan/s must ramp up obviously, that's a given. However, the case fans should also increase to some extent to drive some cooler air through the case and expel the extra heat from the CPU. Else all that will happen is that warm air, that keeps getting warmer, is being flushed over the CPU cooler - it's not as quick at getting the CPU temps down.
In this instance both Chassis and CPU fans can be dependent on the CPU temperature - easy.

Scenario 2: GFx/GPU gets warmer.
Similar situation to above. The GFx card fans will ramp up, but the intake and exhaust case fans will also need to move the warm air out and cool air in to let the GFx fan do a decent job.
Now, we need to have Chassis fans also dependent upon GFx temps.

Scenario 3: HDD gets warmer.
I don't see ASUS mentioning getting SMART readings from the individual HDDs. They say you can get an add-on temp sensor and stick in to your HDD stack, but they aren't looking at the existing temperature sensors already inside the HDDs themselves.
So if I am not mistaken, your HDD will carry on getting warmer and warmer, until either the CPU, PCH or Motherboard sensors pick up an adequate rise to request to be cooled by the chassis fans. That of course only works if multiple temperature sensor sources can be used for any one fan, else if the CPU still isn't getting warm, then those case fans will still be slow and thus thoise drives are gonna have their lifespan cut short rather rapidly.

As for SpeedFan in it's current state, it only allows for a minimum and maximum speed for each fan header. But, every temperature sensor it can find allows the user to assign any of the available fans to it.
In my setup with only 2 headers, CPU on one and 3 chassis fans on another:

Code:

Code: 
Sensor ============= Fan
CPU ================ CPU + Chassis
MoBo =============== CPU +  Chassis
GPU ================ Chassis
HDD X ============== Chassis
No point spinning up the CPU fan if the HDDs are getting warm, but if the CPU is getting warm then the case needs more air flow and the CPU needs direct cooling. This isn't difficult stuff as SpeedFan has been able to do it for years! If the motherboard manufacturers are not implementing something very similar in terms of temperature detections and then fan action, then they aren't good for much, and I'll be using 3rd party software - which is a shame, as I could have saved some cost in paying a team to develop pointlessly over simplified fan control software.

Let's hope it's better than this... :S

@hwbking - Z170-A should have Fan Xpert according to most stuff I read around. In the manual page 9 "ASUS Exclusive Features: Fan Xpert 3"
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Yeah, exactly. Different loads on multiple combinations of CPU/GPU/HDD require different amounts of airflow and not necessarily all from the same sources.

Though to be honest I wouldn't mind much having to rely on SpeedFan if it came to that.

But most mobo manufacturers are pretty bad at saying which headers can be controlled at all and with DC or PWM, which is the most basic information. I mean, seriously, there's not all that much else a mobo manufacturer should have to be developing on the software/controls side. Doing hardware design and layout, verification, testing, low-level programming-okay, not trivial tasks. But you'd think a little sophistication and/or documentation here wouldn't be impossible.
 
#6 ·
Sure, SpeedFan and ArgusMonitor are two solid Windows options for controlling fan speeds based on various temperature sensors detected, with my preferred program pretty clear by now. But I would have thought in the 7 years since I got my current system, that fan control software would have matured to the above required state. Are there really lots of people out there just using fan controls based on CPU temps? I suppose it's not so bad if you don't mind the extra noise from chassis fans moving faster than really required, or selecting an option that lets things get a little warm in the HDD array.

The other important issue you mentioned, actual fan headers, how many? how many pins? DC or PWM?
ASUS have been largely pretty good in regard to this if you read the manuals. Both Z97 and Z170 all seem to be both DC and PWM capable 4-pin headers, even though one part of the manual may say/show 3 pin, they are normally all 4 pin.

MSI on the other hand, take a look at their KRAIT and GAMING # series manuals page 42:
"CPUFAN1~2, SYSFAN1~3: Fan Connectors
Fan connectors can be classified as PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) Mode and Voltage Mode. PWM Mode fan connectors provide constant 12V output and adjust fan speed with speed control signal. Voltage Mode fan connectors control fan speed by changing voltage. Therefore, when you plug a 3-pin (Non-PWM) fan to a PWM Mode fan connector, the fan speed will be always maintained at 100%, and that could be noisy."

Well, gee thanks....but what are your headers capable of? They are all 4-pin and I would assume (that's never good to do) that they support both DC and PWM capable. Looking again at the graphic, it looks more like System/Chassis headers are all DC mode whilst the CPU headers are PWM.


Looking at Gigabytes Z170X-Gaming 7, the fan are all 4-pin and the pin out diagrams indicate CPU is PWM mode, whilst the System/Chassis fans are DC.


Am I right or wrong in my deductions?
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
I think I've seen some boards labeled similarly to that on some headers and yet not even support fan control of any kind, according to user reports. Or maybe a 4-pin header labeled with the 4th pin being PWM control but not possessing actual PWM control in reality. It's a mess.

But it does seem that you're right with those two examples. Labeling pin 2 as "speed control" or "voltage control" as opposed to +12V seems unambiguous as to the capability.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

I think I've seen some boards labeled similarly to that on some headers and yet not even support fan control of any kind, according to user reports. Or maybe a 4-pin header labeled with the 4th pin being PWM control but not possessing actual PWM control in reality. It's a mess.

But it does seem that you're right with those two examples. Labeling pin 2 as "speed control" or "voltage control" as opposed to +12V seems unambiguous as to the capability.
Click to expand...
Maybe I can clarify how to deduce fan header capability from the manuals as I do this a lot in reviews. Well, in every review I make a point to point out what each header is capable of and when i cover the UEFI i talk about fan control.

So you have two types of fans:
4-pin and 3-pin.
4-pin fans are most of the time PWM fans. The PWM fan has its own regulator and so it is provided a constant 12v (pin 2) and a PWM signal (the 4th pin) which i think maxes out at around a constant 5v (this is important later).
3-pin fans (voltage mode) are regulated by a circuit on the motherboard, so the 12v pin turns into a pin which provides a range of voltage up to 12v (variable voltage) to the fan to control it and the fan outputs its RPMs through the 3rd pin.

A voltage controlled header is able to change the voltage on the power pin up to 12v (variable output voltage), and some some 4-pin headers that are only voltage mode provide 5v on the PWM pin so that the fan's internal controller runs at 100% while the motherboard continues to control the fan through traditional voltage mode techniques. This means that voltage mode headers can control both PWM and voltage mode fans.

A PWM only header isn't able to control a voltage mode fan because the 12v line is always 12v, and voltage mode fans are regulated through the motherboard. So a voltage mode fan will run at 100% on a PWm only header since the motherboard isn't required to regulate the output voltage on pin 2.

There are many headers that can change from voltage mode to PWM mode, and this is more complicated to spot unless you are told so or can test it. I know that many brands have PWM headers that can change modes, and some brands have all their headers support both PWM and voltage mode. Some brands have PWm only headers and then some voltage mode headers.

So why have two types of control? Well PWM fans aren't supposed to click like some voltage mode fans and you can run many fans off one header because you can just spread the PWM signal around and provide all fans 12v through the main PSU instead of the motherboard. Not all fans are PWM though, many are 3-pin since I would think it costs more to implement a regulator into the PCB of a fan. Personally I don't care if a fan is 3-pin or 4-pin, i usually just plug them in and use the auto profile unless it is too loud or doesn't do enough. I also have a NAS which has its own fan, so I don't have that many drives (mostly just SSDs).Maybe i should start checking each header for capability. Almost every board has different fan control, even in the same brand.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
I think the situation I'm thinking of is where people ran into issues of 4-pin headers doing only voltage control despite the manual listing the 4th pin as PWM signal and there being no mention that the header was DC voltage control only. So confusion and then sad faces when trying to use a PWM splitter with a header with a PWM pin that just outputs 5V all the time.

And manuals that are vague on control functionality and have some headers but not others that don't provide any fan speed control at all, just the tach function. e.g. inexplicably a sys_fan3 and sys_fan2 don't have control, but sys_fan0 and sys_fan1 do, and all of them being labeled with the same pinout diagram. That may have been more common on some older boards, or maybe I'm misremembering or making stuff up.

In the above manual shots up in the thread, it seems to be clear enough. Maybe they've upped their games. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's an honest error once in a while in this kind of documentation for some boards.

Anyway, after underlying hardware capability for voltage and/or PWM control is discerned, it's still not clear what temperatures or conditions trigger different fan speed regulation on which headers. Which can be controlled in response to anything other than CPU temperature, and what else, and how? This tends not to be in the manuals. This kind of info wasn't in the one I just spot checked now.

I asked if there's some kind of trends with different brands these days in terms of what's available, but if they're still oddly segmented in feature sets across different boards within the same series of the same brand, then I guess not.
 
#10 ·
I checked again and it seems like ASUS's newest Fan Xpert 3 in the Z170 series allow a user to a (singular) different temperature source for each fan header. The others don't seem to offer this, both Gigabyte and MSI look to use the CPU temp as the only point of reference for what all of the fans should do.

ASUS Z170 PRO GAMING
(10 min : 08 sec)

"For this generation we also have multiple temperature input sources. So traditionally when you talk about controlling your fans, it's actually quite coarse. For a lot of competitors out there, pretty much everything is going to be limited to responding to the CPU. No if you think about it, when you build your system you might not necessarily want all of your fans to only respond to the CPU temperature. In some situations you might want them to respond to an entirely different temperature input source and that's what you have the ability to do. For this generation [Z170] we actually have temperature input sources for the CPU, for the VRM, for the PCH, for the motherboard, and there's also an optional temp sensor at the bottom."

He goes on to talk about the optional Fan expansion board, and says:
"just like the one's on the motherboard, these fully support both DC and PWM output control." - does that seem conclusive for ASUS at least?

I'd like to see just what controls the ASST_FAN headers on the Sabertooth MK1, seeing as those fans are more aimed at the VRM and PCH, it'd be rather daft to not have them assigned to those temps. Will have to wait a while for them to preview it, and they'll probably brush over and miss explaining exactly how they function.

So again, it would appear that a user can use ONE source per fan header on these boards. That simply isn't enough control, as described above. Many items require the chassis fans to help with their own thermal solutions, so just one source for them is far too limited. We are still stuck to using 3rd party fan control software because it looks like there isn't enough interest in developing a solid and fully configurable fan control suite by the motherboard manufacturers.
That all said, I only just discovered the "Advanced Fan Control" in SpeedFan and that works just dandy, taking multiple temp sensors and allowing the user to assign temperature vs fan speed plots to all of them independently. So, Alfredo Milani Comparetti has us covered even if hardware manufacturers don't.

Have people really just been using the CPU temp as their fan controller source?
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

I think the situation I'm thinking of is where people ran into issues of 4-pin headers doing only voltage control despite the manual listing the 4th pin as PWM signal and there being no mention that the header was DC voltage control only. So confusion and then sad faces when trying to use a PWM splitter with a header with a PWM pin that just outputs 5V all the time.

And manuals that are vague on control functionality and have some headers but not others that don't provide any fan speed control at all, just the tach function. e.g. inexplicably a sys_fan3 and sys_fan2 don't have control, but sys_fan0 and sys_fan1 do, and all of them being labeled with the same pinout diagram. That may have been more common on some older boards, or maybe I'm misremembering or making stuff up.

In the above manual shots up in the thread, it seems to be clear enough. Maybe they've upped their games. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's an honest error once in a while in this kind of documentation for some boards.

Anyway, after underlying hardware capability for voltage and/or PWM control is discerned, it's still not clear what temperatures or conditions trigger different fan speed regulation on which headers. Which can be controlled in response to anything other than CPU temperature, and what else, and how? This tends not to be in the manuals. This kind of info wasn't in the one I just spot checked now.

I asked if there's some kind of trends with different brands these days in terms of what's available, but if they're still oddly segmented in feature sets across different boards within the same series of the same brand, then I guess not.
Click to expand...
Well what the manual says should be true, if the manual lists the 4th pin as PWm control and it is only giving voltage control then you should check the UEFI b/c many times there is an option you need to change to have the header change into PWM mode from voltage mode. I think a lot of manufactures try to simplify the fan control setup as much as possible, some manufacturers are aiming to improve the options for fan control though, especially for Z170.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

Well what the manual says should be true, if the manual lists the 4th pin as PWm control and it is only giving voltage control then you should check the UEFI b/c many times there is an option you need to change to have the header change into PWM mode from voltage mode. I think a lot of manufactures try to simplify the fan control setup as much as possible, some manufacturers are aiming to improve the options for fan control though, especially for Z170.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of the manufactures try to over simplify everything, at least in the manuals. I'm quite aware that most folks (myself included) don't like reading the manual when they get a new bit of tech, preferring to just get our hands on in there and work it out as we go, normally with dire consequences, but we don't learn as a whole. However, I have found that reading manuals before a purchase allows me to get as close to a full picture as possible (along with reviews of course) of what the product is capable of and whether it meets my needs or not, and also to avoid finding myself in a difficult situation (an example was a Sony home DVD-R recorder which wouldn't support -R, favouring +R, and wouldn't do frame accurate editing. Needless to say the Panasonic that did was our purchase - I needed to go through the manuals with a fine tooth comb to find out though).

Without being able to go to a shop / facility that actually has these things setup and working, it can be tough to find out just what options are available in the BIOS (should I still be using this term) UEFI. It would seem for the CPU fan header practically everyone is offering the choice of DC or PWM from the screenshots of UEFI's I have seen, but for the rest of the headers it's less easy to determine.

Personally, I'd have hoped that there would be an advanced mode button or something a a little out of the way that'd let uses who know at least something get the very best from their fans in terms of full system cooling where it's most efficiently needed whilst maintain the quietest operation. Sure they allow for quiet, but are woefully inadequate for full automated system cooling the way I see it. I apologise if I sound like an ungrateful jerk though, or perhaps worse, a stuck CD.

I'll keep looking around to see what I can deduce about fan headers for every board I can, and if I find any tid bits of anything useful, I'll be sure to post 'em.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSponge View Post

I checked again and it seems like ASUS's newest Fan Xpert 3 in the Z170 series allow a user to a (singular) different temperature source for each fan header. The others don't seem to offer this, both Gigabyte and MSI look to use the CPU temp as the only point of reference for what all of the fans should do.

?
Click to expand...
Not true. Gigabyte CPU & CPU_opt headers are CPU temp controlled but sys 1,2 &3 are system temp controlled, but not able to change input source in bios or SIV only speedfan.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the correction guys, you're both absolutely right of course! My apologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masteratarms View Post

Not true. Gigabyte CPU & CPU_opt headers are CPU temp controlled but sys 1,2 &3 are system temp controlled, but not able to change input source in bios or SIV only speedfan.
Click to expand...
Gigabyte:
CPU + CPU_OPT = CPU Temp
SYS_FAN # = System Temp (bottom back corner)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

MSI also lets you choose to use CPU or System
Click to expand...
MSI:
CPU + CPU_OPT = CPU or System Temp
SYS_FAN # = CPU or System Temp

ASRock

All seem to be PWM by default unless a 3-pin fan is attached, which is DC for lack of pin-4.

Looking at the screen shots of "Fan-Tastic Tuning" - just what were they thinking!?! - it seems there isn't an option to select the temperature source.
(2:52).
No visible option for temp source selection, but then again no one seems to click a chassis fan, only the CPU fan. Looking at the Hardware monitor page, only 2 temps read from the board, CPU and System/Mobo.

EVGA:


All are 4-pin PWM but also 3-pin DC compatible it would seem. No word on what sensors control them in UEFI or software.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSponge View Post

Thanks for the correction guys, you're both absolutely right of course! My apologies.
Gigabyte:
CPU + CPU_OPT = CPU Temp
SYS_FAN # = System Temp (bottom back corner)
MSI:
CPU + CPU_OPT = CPU or System Temp
SYS_FAN # = CPU or System Temp

ASRock

All seem to be PWM by default unless a 3-pin fan is attached, which is DC for lack of pin-4.

Looking at the screen shots of "Fan-Tastic Tuning" - just what were they thinking!?! - it seems there isn't an option to select the temperature source.
(2:52).
No visible option for temp source selection, but then again no one seems to click a chassis fan, only the CPU fan. Looking at the Hardware monitor page, only 2 temps read from the board, CPU and System/Mobo.

EVGA:


All are 4-pin PWM but also 3-pin DC compatible it would seem. No word on what sensors control them in UEFI or software.
Click to expand...
Not all 4-pin are 3-pin compatible, all 3 pin headers are able to run 4 and 3 pin fans but not all 4 pin headers can run all 3 pin fans.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

Not all 4-pin are 3-pin compatible, all 3 pin headers are able to run 4 and 3 pin fans but not all 4 pin headers can run all 3 pin fans.
Click to expand...
Yup, I know Sin. For a 3-pin DC to work, the +12v must be variable. I was just reiterating what the excerpt from the manual said, perhaps I should have been more assertive in my statement. All headers on EVGA are 4-pin but are compatible with 3-pin fans, both PWM and DC control is supported.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSponge View Post

Yup, I know Sin. For a 3-pin DC to work, the +12v must be variable. I was just reiterating what the excerpt from the manual said, perhaps I should have been more assertive in my statement. All headers on EVGA are 4-pin but are compatible with 3-pin fans, both PWM and DC control is supported.
Click to expand...
ahh okay, yea on EVGA both are fully supported. I have the Z170 FTW http://www.tweaktown.com/image.php?image=imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/7/2/7287_33_evga-z170-ftw-intel-motherboard-review_full.png
 
#19 ·
Gigabyte Z170X-UD5: SYS_FAN 1-3 and CPU-OPT are 4-pin DC only, except CPU_FAN which is 4-pin PWM only? I think
"The motherboard supports CPU fan speed control, which requires the use of a CPU fan with fan speed control design.",
the diagram is as previous page [Pin1 = GND] [Pin2 = +12v] [Pin3 = Sensor] [Pin4 = Speed Control].
 
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