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Soo8

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
There have been threads and posts about micro switches, the types they come in, longevity of them, tactile feedback from them and so on.
But I haven't seen much or any info about mechanical mouse wheel encoders. Apart from everyone saying ALPS is the best without giving proper reasoning there's not much about them online.
I'm curious about the construction and of mainly ALPS, Huano and TTC encoders as those are the most readily available in mice without going in on obscure pieces.
If anyone has any info on any mech encoders please share. If not, looks like I'll need to order a few different ones to test.
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAGGARD View Post

Practically all mice renown for scroll issues (primarily Logitech, Zowie, Microsoft) deploy optical encoders. Optical naturally has advantages over mechanical such as lifetime and latency, but apparently it's not an easy implementation as far as proper actuation goes. The tactility in mechanical encoders comes from the actual actuation, with optical it's not that clear-cut.
Click to expand...
As for the feeling or construction differences in mechanical encoders itself... The only mechanical one I can remember to ever have used is a TTC (afaik) in a "Sharkoon Fireglider". Started double-actuating at some point, so that's that. The tactility wasn't any better than in the optical designs I have otherwise used either. Optical of course has the problem that the actuation point is more vague and you can get actuations without any feedback as seen in the MLT04 and Zowie mice. Logitech has a very good optical encoder implementation.

I don't think the debounce latency associated with mechanical encoders is detrimental to anything (like timing jumps for bunnyhopping or whatever), but in terms of life span and for "perfection"'s sake I would always go optical. And again, the TTC mech didn't even feel better than the opticals, the opposite if anything. Somehow I also always associate mechanical encoders with low quality internals... dunno.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

Makes me wonder if optical encoders are cheaper than mechanical.
Click to expand...
I have never used a Bloody/A4TECH mouse (Sharkoon is some kind of off-brand or daughter of that though?) but I don't think you can entirely lump them together with the cheap crap mice out there. They have been around for ages and on the forefront basically of some cool stuff like button latency and polling stability. And they have an optical keyboard on the market. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to be the first brand to develop optical microswitches - something I'm still looking forward to.

Regardless, I think mechanical switches are cheaper. Those are a few pieces of plastic and metal. In optical systems there's the laser/LED and photo diode, plus the implementation seems more costy too (both electrically and mechanically since you have to create tactility by other means such as Logitech's spring system).
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

Makes me wonder if optical encoders are cheaper than mechanical.
Click to expand...
Bloody mice component wise are OK. They just dont have added marketing headaches added to the price tag.
 
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#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAGGARD View Post

I have never used a Bloody/A4TECH mouse (Sharkoon is some kind of off-brand or daughter of that though?) but I don't think you can entirely lump them together with the cheap crap mice out there. They have been around for ages and on the forefront basically of some cool stuff like button latency and polling stability. And they have an optical keyboard on the market. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to be the first brand to develop optical microswitches - something I'm still looking forward to.

Regardless, I think mechanical switches are cheaper. Those are a few pieces of plastic and metal. In optical systems there's the laser/LED and photo diode, plus the implementation seems more costy too (both electrically and mechanically since you have to create tactility by other means such as Logitech's spring system).
Click to expand...
They use optical microswitches for left and right mouse buttons plus wheel encoder.
 
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#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAGGARD View Post

I have never used a Bloody/A4TECH mouse (Sharkoon is some kind of off-brand or daughter of that though?) but I don't think you can entirely lump them together with the cheap crap mice out there. They have been around for ages and on the forefront basically of some cool stuff like button latency and polling stability. And they have an optical keyboard on the market. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to be the first brand to develop optical microswitches - something I'm still looking forward to.

Regardless, I think mechanical switches are cheaper. Those are a few pieces of plastic and metal. In optical systems there's the laser/LED and photo diode, plus the implementation seems more costy too (both electrically and mechanically since you have to create tactility by other means such as Logitech's spring system).
Click to expand...
They've been cheap trash since ball mice epoch. Though, they have at least one mouse with optical switches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2shellbonus View Post

Bloody mice component wise are OK. They just dont have added marketing headaches added to the price tag.
Click to expand...
If huanos and 3305/3050/9800 are ok, i dont know what is considered bad.
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

They've been cheap trash since ball mice epoch. Though, they have at least one mouse with optical switches.

If huanos and 3305/3050/9800 are ok, i dont know what is considered bad.
Click to expand...
Isn't the Bloody products meant to be affordable for the Asian market?
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

Razer used the same wheel as Zowie does when they used the same factory.
Click to expand...
Admittedly my knowledge of Razer products starts and ends with the Deathadder, but those obviously do use mechanical encoders. And to be fair, most people think of Deathadder when they mention Razer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

They've been cheap trash since ball mice epoch.
Click to expand...
What exactly constitutes "cheap trash" here? Again, my experiences have only been secondary ones in the form of the rebranded Fireglider, but at 20 bux I would take it over a 70 bux FM any day of the week.
tongue.gif

Yeah, I wouldn't ever recommend it for real competitive gaming, but if you can deal with spazz-malfunction @ ~3m/s, 8bit PCS, 4ms smoothing and prediction, it's a well-enough functioning and durable mouse that comes without the need for drivers, solid software, onboard memory, custom scripts, custom CPI, custom button assignments, 8-1ms poll rate and 1ms button latency.
I did however bring it up in the context of mechanical encoders (which it uses) seeming cheaper to me. So yeah, I'm not saying I think they have high-quality components or QC. But there's a lot of seriously more trashy stuff out there from what I can tell, with serious defects and no or hella buggy software, and that at multiple times the price point.
Quote:
they have at least one mouse with optical switches.
Click to expand...
Do they? I can't find it!
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

They've been cheap trash since ball mice epoch. Though, they have at least one mouse with optical switches.
If huanos and 3305/3050/9800 are ok, i dont know what is considered bad.
Click to expand...
9800 is a top of the line sensor. Not going into its speed variance - it's a high quality component.

Huanos are used by zowie for example. Also Bloodys latest lineup uses lk switches rated at 50 million clicks.

Bloody gas really good cost to what you get ratio.
They aren't the best - they are like zte in the smartphone space in my opinion
 
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#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

I only say Alps encoders are the best because that is what Roccat uses, and I've yet to get a mouse with that awesome mousewheel feeling as a Roccat.
Click to expand...
Thats right. I've tried MANY mice, but the best wheel I've ever used was in Roccat KPM.

I soldered Alps encoders in several other mice, those are damn close to KPM, but not reaching that level of comfort. They are really cheap on Aliexpress.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAGGARD View Post

What exactly constitutes "cheap trash" here? Again, my experiences have only been secondary ones in the form of the rebranded Fireglider, but at 20 bux I would take it over a 70 bux FM any day of the week.
tongue.gif
Click to expand...
Well, "cheap" is about their price and "trash" is about their longevity. I've heard enough stories about a4tech mice breaking very fast to stay away from that brand.

Also i can't find the mouse using optical switches either, though i remember reading about it several months ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2shellbonus View Post

9800 is a top of the line sensor. Not going into its speed variance - it's a high quality component.
Click to expand...
Leaving its biggest flaw outside the equation is not fair imho. Also makes me wonder why they dont use top of the line optical sensors that dont have it.
 
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