[Engadget] Epic Games: Microsoft can't be allowed to control PC gaming
Loosenut
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Funny how no one accuses Nvidia and CUDA of these intentions.
Anyhow all to do about nothing. http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/4/11162038/microsoft-windows-10-tim-sweeney-epic-games-uwp-response
Anyhow all to do about nothing. http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/4/11162038/microsoft-windows-10-tim-sweeney-epic-games-uwp-response
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Nvidia doesnt push CUDA down to your throat. If you are a developer YOU choose either to use CUDA or opencl.Originally Posted by Redwoodz
Funny how no one accuses Nvidia and CUDA of these intentions.
Anyhow all to do about nothing. http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/4/11162038/microsoft-windows-10-tim-sweeney-epic-games-uwp-response
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Got any proof?
You are always welcome to use a different operating system as well.
So Microsoft is forcing you to play all your games in Windows Store?Originally Posted by sugarhell
Nvidia doesnt push CUDA down to your throat. If you are a developer YOU choose either to use CUDA or opencl.
Got any proof?
You are always welcome to use a different operating system as well.
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UWP Apps are more efficient. Microsoft has been trying to push for this since Windows 8 first came out. .exe are old school. There are to be a change but the way Microsoft is handling their Store since Windows 8 is pathetic. Also they could start but having the replacement be as good that what its replacing.
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I seem to be missing something.. Are MS forcing developers to use UWP over Win32? We don't even know how the Windows store or UWP is planned to function in the future.Originally Posted by sugarhell
Nvidia doesnt push CUDA down to your throat. If you are a developer YOU choose either to use CUDA or opencl.
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Its like saying if i dont use CUDA i cant use compute apps at all.
If i use a different OS i will not gonna use dx12. You see the difference?Originally Posted by Redwoodz
So Microsoft is forcing you to play all your games in Windows Store?
Got any proof?
You are always welcome to use a different operating system as well.
Its like saying if i dont use CUDA i cant use compute apps at all.
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In both cases, the competition sucks, but it is specifically Microsoft's problem for no reason.Originally Posted by sugarhell
If i use a different OS i will not gonna use dx12. You see the difference?
Its like saying if i dont use CUDA i cant use compute apps at all.
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Total BS, you can write efficient programs in most of the "old school" programming langauges. If a program is inefficient that is mostly the developers fault....Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er
UWP Apps are more efficient. Microsoft has been trying to push for this since Windows 8 first came out. .exe are old school. There are to be a change but the way Microsoft is handling their Store since Windows 8 is pathetic. Also they could start but having the replacement be as good that what its replacing.
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Once again, it's up to the developer to do Crossfire/SLI along with Cross-vendors GPUs support for these DX12 games not AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft.
Forget perception, this is a business here. Nvidia doesn't want to waste resources/operating expenses for optimizations if they don't have to. Remember now, driver support is the primary reason why Workstation GPUs cost way more than Gaming GPUs.
As for V-sync and exclusive fullscreen mode, Microsoft already said that there is no reason why developers can't make an exclusive fullscreen game. Ryan Shrout from PCper got an official statement from Microsoft on this. Listen at the 26:51 mark when asked about this and Ryan tells his co-anchor what Microsoft officially said:
That's simple because the Tomb Raider on Steam was coded on DX11 API while the one on the Windows Store was coded on DX12 API without use the DX12's features yet. As for them having to do more work, well they have to do all of this work given the fact that this game has already been demonstrated by Microsoft at the Windows 10 Gaming Conference in San Francisco a couple of days ago doing Cross-vendors GPUs.Originally Posted by tpi2007
So, Rise of the Tomb Raider, a DX 11 game (for now) has SLI and Crossfire support in the Steam version and not on the Windows Store. That logically implies that you have to do more work to have the exact same game work under the Windows Store model than under the general platform.
Also, Nvidia's brand image with gamers is largely due to their superior drivers perception and why AMD was the one pushing Mantle. As good an idea as Mantle is, it doesn't invalidate the former statement, so let's keep that in mind when implying that Nvidia is tired of having a good brand reputation.
Lastly, don't forget that the V-Sync and exclusive fullscreen problem you mention in the last sentence is currently a Windows Store implementation problem. They've said so themselves. You didn't mention it, but modding is also a problem and again, they admitted to that already.
The Unreal engine is used by many developers of PC games. And that is why I think that his opinion has many people behind him, this isn't just a single guy's op-ed in a newspaper. It carries more significance.
Once again, it's up to the developer to do Crossfire/SLI along with Cross-vendors GPUs support for these DX12 games not AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft.
Forget perception, this is a business here. Nvidia doesn't want to waste resources/operating expenses for optimizations if they don't have to. Remember now, driver support is the primary reason why Workstation GPUs cost way more than Gaming GPUs.
As for V-sync and exclusive fullscreen mode, Microsoft already said that there is no reason why developers can't make an exclusive fullscreen game. Ryan Shrout from PCper got an official statement from Microsoft on this. Listen at the 26:51 mark when asked about this and Ryan tells his co-anchor what Microsoft officially said:
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Tomb raider on both Stores is using dx11 with the same features.And if you check the files on both versions they have the same files minus the exe. I analyzed the game with a profiler a lot of time there isnt anything there.
UWS doesnt support afr because it lacks fullscreen mode. All the apps that works through UWS they have to use right now vsync because they work with borderless fullscreen ONLY.
What? This is an insane logic.Originally Posted by MoorishBrutha
That's simple because the Tomb Raider on Steam was coded on DX11 API while the one on the Windows Store was coded on DX12 API without use the DX12's features yet. As for them having to do more work, well they have to do all of this work given the fact that this game has already been demonstrated by Microsoft at the Windows 10 Gaming Conference in San Francisco a couple of days ago doing Cross-vendors GPUs.
Once again, it's up to the developer to do Crossfire/SLI along with Cross-vendors GPUs support for these DX12 games not AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft.
Forget perception, this is a business here. Nvidia doesn't want to waste resources/operating expenses for optimizations if they don't have to. Remember now, driver support is the primary reason why Workstation GPUs cost way more than Gaming GPUs.
As for V-sync and exclusive fullscreen mode, Microsoft already said that there is no reason why developers can't make an exclusive fullscreen game. Ryan Shrout from PCper got an official statement from Microsoft on this. Listen at the 26:51 mark when asked about this and Ryan tells his co-anchor what Microsoft officially said:
Tomb raider on both Stores is using dx11 with the same features.And if you check the files on both versions they have the same files minus the exe. I analyzed the game with a profiler a lot of time there isnt anything there.
UWS doesnt support afr because it lacks fullscreen mode. All the apps that works through UWS they have to use right now vsync because they work with borderless fullscreen ONLY.
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Then explain this to me..........and by the way, are you saying that Ryan Shrout is lying about his official statement from Microsoft about them saying there is nothing preventing a developer from create an exclusive fullscreen mode?Originally Posted by sugarhell
What? This is an insane logic.
Tomb raider on both Stores is using dx11 with the same features.And if you check the files on both versions they have the same files minus the exe. I analyzed the game with a profiler a lot of time there isnt anything there.
UWS doesnt support afr because it lacks fullscreen mode. All the apps that works through UWS they have to use right now vsync because they work with borderless fullscreen ONLY.
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I dont believe microsoft. RIght now all the apps are borderless and they dont support crossfire/sli for some "reason". I am trying to not read any pr from any company
ALso they dont mention that they can create a UWS app with fullscreen. They are saying that if you use WDDM 2.0 you can create an application with fullscreen mode and there isnt any limitation except UWS that force borderless.
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So a new version of tomb raider with dx12 is playable. What to explain from that? That they will patch the game with dx12? We already know that dx12 is coming to tomb raider but that doesnt mean that it is already thereOriginally Posted by MoorishBrutha
Then explain this to me..........and by the way, are you saying that Ryan Shrout is lying about his official statement from Microsoft about them saying there is nothing preventing a developer from create an exclusive fullscreen mode?
I dont believe microsoft. RIght now all the apps are borderless and they dont support crossfire/sli for some "reason". I am trying to not read any pr from any company
ALso they dont mention that they can create a UWS app with fullscreen. They are saying that if you use WDDM 2.0 you can create an application with fullscreen mode and there isnt any limitation except UWS that force borderless.
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Folks, it's just like Nintendo with the Wii U. Alot of consoles gamers ridicule Nintendo for releasing the Wii U back in 2012 without voice chat. But what alot of consoles dudes fail to mention up was the reason why Nintendo did that in the first place; and that reason was that Nintendo perceived themselves as a kids' consoles and they didn't want adults socializing too heavy with little kids so they let developers decide if they want voice chat in their respective games if they see fit. So just for the record, voice-chat for the Wii U was always available, it's just that the developers have to do the work/programming instead of Nintendo. The developers can ALWAYS enable these features.
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As for you not believing in Microsoft, that's a personal issue, I'm dealing with facts. Ryan Shrout said that Microsoft gave him an official statement that any developer can make a game with exclusive fullscreen as I marked in that last posting.
I'm not here to give you conviction about Microsoft, I'm here to bring the facts.
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It goes back to what I originally said to that other poster about the version from Windows Store is coded on DX12 API and they just haven't officially enabled the DX12 features yet like how they did at the Windows 10 Gaming Conference a couple of days ago. Please think before responding, just don't argue for the sake of argument.Originally Posted by sugarhell
So a new version of tomb raider with dx12 is playable. What to explain from that? That they will patch the game with dx12? We already know that dx12 is coming to tomb raider but that doesnt mean that it is already there
I dont believe microsoft. RIght now all the apps are borderless and they dont support crossfire/sli for some "reason". I am trying to not read any pr from any company
As for you not believing in Microsoft, that's a personal issue, I'm dealing with facts. Ryan Shrout said that Microsoft gave him an official statement that any developer can make a game with exclusive fullscreen as I marked in that last posting.
I'm not here to give you conviction about Microsoft, I'm here to bring the facts.
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Let's be precise here: Using the current Nvidia drivers you can play a DX 12 game outside UWP that runs in exclusive fullscreen mode. When AMD releases their driver with FlipEx enabled, you'll be able to do the same. But as of today you can't do it with a UWP based game, no matter the driver.
Also, a DX 12 game is not necessarily a UWP game and a UWP game is not necessarily a DX 12 game.
If you don't believe me or sugarhell, read Phil Spencer's own words:
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No, that is not what they said and that is not what is being said in the video and that is not what I said in the post you are quoting. We are talking about what is possible within UWP and UWP only.Originally Posted by MoorishBrutha
As for V-sync and exclusive fullscreen mode, Microsoft already said that there is no reason why developers can't make an exclusive fullscreen game. Ryan Shrout from PCper got an official statement from Microsoft on this. Listen at the 26:51 mark when asked about this and Ryan tells his co-anchor what Microsoft officially said:
Let's be precise here: Using the current Nvidia drivers you can play a DX 12 game outside UWP that runs in exclusive fullscreen mode. When AMD releases their driver with FlipEx enabled, you'll be able to do the same. But as of today you can't do it with a UWP based game, no matter the driver.
Also, a DX 12 game is not necessarily a UWP game and a UWP game is not necessarily a DX 12 game.
If you don't believe me or sugarhell, read Phil Spencer's own words:
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http://www.pcgamer.com/phil-spencer-interview-on-microsofts-pc-gaming-strategy/
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UWP doesn't allow multi-GPUs configuration yet so who else could had implemented that in? It can only be the developers. Developers always have control like in my example about Nintendo with the Wii U. Most consoles dudes think that the Wii U doesn't have voice chat because Nintendo never universally implemented it in lest pedophilia/lascivious behavior but Nintendo has said plenty of times that developers can implement voice chat themselves if they see fit.
No, that's what they were saying. Ryan mentioned up about the UWP's current policies afterwards. Just think about it for a couple of seconds: a couple of days ago at the Windows 10 Gaming Conference in San Francisco, not Steam Conference, they played Rise of the Tomb Raider with cross-vendor GPUs.Originally Posted by tpi2007
No, that is not what they said and that is not what is being said in the video and that is not what I said in the post you are quoting. We are talking about what is possible within UWP and UWP only.
Let's be precise here: Using the current Nvidia drivers you can play a DX 12 game outside UWP that runs in exclusive fullscreen mode. When AMD releases their driver with FlipEx enabled, you'll be able to do the same. But as of today you can't do it with a UWP based game, no matter the driver.
Also, a DX 12 game is not necessarily a UWP game and a UWP game is not necessarily a DX 12 game.
If you don't believe me or sugarhell, read Phil Spencer's own words:
http://www.pcgamer.com/phil-spencer-interview-on-microsofts-pc-gaming-strategy/
UWP doesn't allow multi-GPUs configuration yet so who else could had implemented that in? It can only be the developers. Developers always have control like in my example about Nintendo with the Wii U. Most consoles dudes think that the Wii U doesn't have voice chat because Nintendo never universally implemented it in lest pedophilia/lascivious behavior but Nintendo has said plenty of times that developers can implement voice chat themselves if they see fit.
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So, now you're explicitly contradicting what Phil Spencer said. Awesome. I even went one step further and not only put in bold but also underlined the part where he says that it's currently a platform limitation. I don't know how much clearer it can get than this. Quoted again:Originally Posted by MoorishBrutha
No, that's what they were saying. Ryan mentioned up about the UWP's current policies afterwards. Just think about it for a couple of seconds: a couple of days ago at the Windows 10 Gaming Conference in San Francisco, not Steam Conference, they played Rise of the Tomb Raider with cross-vendor GPUs.
UWP doesn't allow multi-GPUs configuration yet so who else could had implemented that in? It can only be the developers.
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What they probably did for that presentation was work on the platform limitation like he said they would and worked together with the developer to explore that newly added capability. None of that invalidates the fact that currently, the platform, as it is deployed in consumer's machines, does not allow for that. Some things may change "very quickly" as he said, but no time frame was given. For all we know it's working in the lab and it'll be a month or two before it's truly ready for broad adoption.
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