Is there a lot of confusion surrounding the CCNA being an entry level cert or not?

aweir · Jan 24, 2017

So there's this problem with the IT industry. It goes like this:

If you have no work experience in IT, a CCNA will make you look overqualified for an entry level help desk job.
Without work experience, a CCNA alone makes you under qualified for an entry-level networking job.

The CCNA is now considered an "entry level" cert in the industry even though the CCENT is actually meant to be entry level. The reason surrounding this is because so many people taking the CCNA without prior work experience, making the CCENT less valuable.

The General consensus is to start with a Comptia Network+ and apply for a helpdesk/desktop support position (or maybe entry level network technician). The CCENT is only meant to be a gateway to the CCNA>CCNP>CCIE

So with that being said, do you think it would be wiser to go for the CCENT if seeking an entry level job, or would it make an employee overqualified for the most basic entry level jobs (because an employer would think you would then get a CCNA and leave the company) or should one obtain a Network+ certification instead?

Alxz · Jan 24, 2017

CCNA is pretty much taken as entry level, CCNET is usually not even part of the tier. If you want to go the cisco route, CCNA is quite good for an entry level job (talking about IT), CCNP is mandatory afterwards. (At least in Mexico lmao)

I haven't heard of anyone being called overqualified with CCNA, its usually the opposite way.

aweir · Jan 24, 2017

So then what purpose does the CCENT serve? As merely an optional prerequisite to the CCNA? Or is it meant to be on par with the Network+ with a little more lean toward Cisco? I'm looking to get into IT as I have taken an interest in networking (I enjoy things relating to networking AND PC hardware/support.) I've done a lot of researching into the topic and I've heard people say that even getting an A+ certification makes you overqualified to work as a PC technician at a place like BestBuy's Geeksquad, where they hire high school graduates with no certification and pay them $12-15 per hour. This is not how it should be. There are people that shell out $200 be A+ certified, just to be bested by someone with no certification but maybe experience.

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/training-events/training-certifications/certifications.html
Quote:

CCENT: The CCENT certification validates the skills required for entry-level network support positions, the starting point for many successful careers in networking. Both the CCENT and the CCT certifications serve as starting points for individuals interested in starting a career as a networking professional.

CCNA: The Associate level of Cisco Certifications can begin directly with CCNA for network installation, operations and troubleshooting or CCDA for network design. Think of the Associate Level as the foundation level of networking certification.

Being that I have absolutely positively no experience in IT would you recommend I still go for a CCNP over a Network+/CCENT?

I realize everyone has to start from the bottom when they enter a workforce (I have to problem with that), but why do employers expect a certification higher than the type of work it calls for?

hawkeye071292 · Jan 25, 2017

Most people I have met with less then 2 years of experience and a CCNA can't route their way out of a paper bag. I consider the CCNP to be the "You know what you are doing by now" cert, because I have known some really smart guys that are struggling with the CCNP. I don't really do networking, I do more vmWare, Exchange, and Windows management. I have exactly 0 certs. But I have read every vmWare book from 5.1 to 6.0, Server 2003-2012R2, and had formal training with Exchange/Office 365. I am also only 24, but make very good money in the MSP market, and pretty young for a sysadmin.

Experience beats certs any day of the week imo.

aweir · Jan 25, 2017

So it seems the CCNA will make you look smarter than someone with a CCENT on paper but won't really matter in a real world setting.. So I was considering an entry level (NOC) Technician but then when I see a position open for $10 per hour, I'm thinking this can't be for real. I know this is entry level but c'mon, you can make the same amount of money stocking shelves at Walmart.

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Grupo--sms/jobs/Noc-Analyst-8ae6a8b331ff09f5?sjdu=QwrRXKrqZ3CNX5W-O9jEvcEgC9DYQ0e12EdkmCaWJRdu1SVnsjzuckP8Q6iq8LYFGVw3JcxEI6L8enZnyJbLLw

Sorphius · Jan 25, 2017

Holy crap! I get that entry-level is entry-level, but provided that's an actual on-site position in Irvine, CA and not a work-from-Brazil situation, $10/hr seems incredibly low. But then again, I live in a town with a very high cost of living where the grocery stores pay cashiers $13.75/hr.

To speak to your initial question re: the CCNA as an entry-level cert, I think people would generally make a distinction between entry-level and entry-level networking. Someone with no IT experience and a CCNA may very well be overqualified for a helpdesk position, since the closest most helpdesk workers come to touching a network is checking to make sure that cables are properly connected. That's a big part of why the typical career progression is to pay your dues working helpdesk for a couple of years, and then graduate to a Jr. SysAdmin or NetAdmin role once you've gotten some real-world experience under your belt.

As for which path is right for you, it's specific to your situation, but if you're really just wanting a foot in the door then I'd dare say that a combo of A+/Net+ should be enough to get you interviews for helpdesk positions with a relatively small outlay (~$400 for the exams and another $30 or so for Professor Messer's course notes). From there you can branch out into whichever path interests you, be that server administration, networking, virtualization, VOIP, etc., and you aren't spending a ton of time and money pigeonholing yourself into Cisco in the event that you either find you don't like networking, or you take a job someplace that uses, say, Juniper or Palo Alto.

hawkeye071292 · Jan 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorphius

and you aren't spending a ton of time and money pigeonholing yourself into Cisco in the event that you either find you don't like networking, or you take a job someplace that uses, say, Juniper or Palo Alto.

^This we have a mixture of Cisco, HP, Fortigate, and Palo Altos. Usually if you are capable of getting a CCNP you can figure out the other brands. I personally learned on Cisco, so I understand HP switches fairly well. But I do not understand Palo Altos, and we just removed out last 2 this week after me starting like 4 months ago, so no harm no foul.

Honestly, I would read a couple books and decide what you want to focus in, and start on that cert path directly. Be it Microsoft, Cisco, vmWare, linux, etc. I usually find out in interviews what a company is using before I start working there. Or ask for a tour of their server room/network closet areas. I've turned down jobs because of the current array of technology. Really old physical servers to migrate off of? No thanks. They obviously don't want to spend money, or had a completely incompetent IT person you will spend the next year or two cleaning shoddy work up.

If you are worried about being "over qualified" for a starting position, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just say you enjoy doing that kind of stuff on the side or as a hobby while you get more certs and look for either a better job, or advancement.

aweir · Jan 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkeye071292

^This we have a mixture of Cisco, HP, Fortigate, and Palo Altos. Usually if you are capable of getting a CCNP you can figure out the other brands. I personally learned on Cisco, so I understand HP switches fairly well. But I do not understand Palo Altos, and we just removed out last 2 this week after me starting like 4 months ago, so no harm no foul.

Honestly, I would read a couple books and decide what you want to focus in, and start on that cert path directly. Be it Microsoft, Cisco, vmWare, linux, etc. I usually find out in interviews what a company is using before I start working there. Or ask for a tour of their server room/network closet areas. I've turned down jobs because of the current array of technology. Really old physical servers to migrate off of? No thanks. They obviously don't want to spend money, or had a completely incompetent IT person you will spend the next year or two cleaning shoddy work up.

If you are worried about being "over qualified" for a starting position, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just say you enjoy doing that kind of stuff on the side or as a hobby while you get more certs and look for either a better job, or advancement.

Thank you all for your input. Should I also be considering perhaps the Microsoft MTA Certification paths such as MTA: Windows Operating System Fundamentals or MTA: Networking Fundamentals?
Quote:

Networking Fundamentals covers much of the CompTIA Network+ exam topics and is a fantastic introduction to computer networking principles. The Security Fundamentals mirrors the CompTIA Security+ syllabus with the CompTIA exam having around 10% extra content added. It gives you a good grounding in security issues, threats and countermeasures available.

With this in mind would it be wiser to opt for the MTA: Network fundamentals if I wanted to go the Microsoft route instead of the Network+ since MTA could lead to MSCA/MSCE?

Relevant Wing · Jan 25, 2017

Staring out I would definitely look at a MS cert, The MCSA is a god route to take since you can go for the MCSE later, I'm just starting the MCSA, CCNA myself for my first certs, but I have been in the field for 16 years and hold an AS degree in network engineering. Getting in the door is never easy, but I have found experience to be far more valuable than any cert or degree. Job wise I started as a network administrator and have never held a position on a help desk, but depending on the company you always end up filling in as needed. From a path perspective, you just have to figure out what your comfortable with and what you want to know more about and start from there. The lower certs like A+ are all but worthless, and an unnecessary expense, I would plan a path and skip certs like that.

hawkeye071292 · Jan 26, 2017

Yeah. I was a Admin while in college too and also have an AS in Network Administration. I did a class on Office 365 which is an MCSA. The MCSE it is a pre req for is MCSE Messaging. I would suggest going with one that you can go down multiple paths with. For instance, I could go take 3x different MCSE tests with the same pre req test.

Figure out what you want, and the rest will follow. Take into account market trends for your area as well. I plan on moving in the next few years to find a bigger company and a different state.

aweir · Jan 26, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relevant Wing

Staring out I would definitely look at a MS cert, The MCSA is a god route to take since you can go for the MCSE later, I'm just starting the MCSA, CCNA myself for my first certs, but I have been in the field for 16 years and hold an AS degree in network engineering. Getting in the door is never easy, but I have found experience to be far more valuable than any cert or degree. Job wise I started as a network administrator and have never held a position on a help desk, but depending on the company you always end up filling in as needed. From a path perspective, you just have to figure out what your comfortable with and what you want to know more about and start from there. The lower certs like A+ are all but worthless, and an unnecessary expense, I would plan a path and skip certs like that.

What other lower certs would you stay away from? CCENT, CCT, and Comptia: IT Fundamentals? Also how the heck did you get lucky enough to land your first job as an admin?

I guess it must suck to be me: I just purchased the latest Comptia A+ Hardcover from that guy Myers (only $30 off Amazon), thinking it would be good to have an A+ cert since I'm not sure what path I want to go. Maybe desktop support specialist? So I guess what I'm asking is what is the right path to take to get into IT without any degree under my belt? And what are the chances of me skipping the helpdesk position since this seems to be a dead-end job for most people? An associates degree would be pretty much the only option I would be willing to go for but it might not even be worth the investment since it would most likely be part time.

The reason for my haste is that I will be laid off soon within the next 10-18 months due to my company closing and moving out of state, and with my severance and unemployment eligibility, it would be a perfect chance to choose a career path. Plus my company is paying for an outplacement service, so having some sort certificate could help them find me a job, or even going with a recruiter. I know I can do better than bolting parts together on an assembly line.

BTW I love you guys for being so helpful. There's no magic answer and it's good to hear from people that are actually in the field.

Relevant Wing · Jan 26, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by aweir

What other lower certs would you stay away from? CCENT, CCT, and Comptia: IT Fundamentals? Also how the heck did you get lucky enough to land your first job as an admin?

I guess it must suck to be me: I just purchased the latest Comptia A+ Hardcover from that guy Myers (only $30 off Amazon), thinking it would be good to have an A+ cert since I'm not sure what path I want to go. Maybe desktop support specialist? So I guess what I'm asking is what is the right path to take to get into IT without any degree under my belt? And what are the chances of me skipping the helpdesk position since this seems to be a dead-end job for most people? An associates degree would be pretty much the only option I would be willing to go for but it might not even be worth the investment since it would most likely be part time.

The reason for my haste is that I will be laid off soon within the next 10-18 months due to my company closing and moving out of state, and with my severance and unemployment eligibility, it would be a perfect chance to choose a career path. Plus my company is paying for an outplacement service, so having some sort certificate could help them find me a job, or even going with a recruiter.

BTW I love you guys for being so helpful. There's no magic answer and it's good to hear from people that are actually in the filed.

Basically I kept looking for a job until someone gave me the chance, and it was perfect i was the admin for a 300 computer network with 500 users, 6 servers, funniest part was the network was all Novell, Netware 6.5, Groupwise email and the guy who hired me was just like just call me if you have a problem. At that point I had never used Netware, but once you figure out 1 operating system its not hard to learn another. Now I had a decent amount of experience with PC's already at that point since the first PC I built was a 386, and I pretty much built PC's for everyone I knew and for locals. Other than that, origionally I learned to program in high school through a vo tech program which was c*, cobal, and rpg (IBM AS400).

I've met tons of people in the field and most that have the A+ or equivalent certs say it didn't help them get a job, Network+ maybe but its only going to give the basics. Microsoft certs are common but i would make sure you start a path that leads to higher certs. CCNA is an ok start but maybe combined with a network+ it'll get you in the door. VMWare, MCSA, MCSE and higher Cisco certs are like gold

Maybe look for a local computer tech job to start for a smaller company, or a desktop support position. I don't know about your area, but desktop support imaging jobs are pretty common and its a good way in without the helpdesk hassles. I think the biggest thing I see today is people new to IT can pass the tests but some cant troubleshoot to save their lives, Its best to start off with how is it suppost to work? Once you can apply that to any problem you can fix anything with at most a little research.

aweir · Jan 26, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relevant Wing

CCNA is an ok start but maybe combined with a network+ it'll get you in the door.

Then wouldn't it be wiser to choose the MTA Network fundamentals over the Network + since:

1. Comptia Network + is vendor-neutral and too broad in scope to be useful beyond anything helpdesk related in most cases.
2. MTA: Network Fundamentals covers most of the Network + anyways and like you said, pick a path and go with it, and why not go the Microsoft path since it would be a natural progression towards MSCA/MSCE Server/Security/Administration and others?

Why do you recommend both CCNA and Network+ when the CCNA covers most of the Network + anyway? Would getting the Network + first make it easier to study for the CCNA? If not, then wouldn't the CCENT>CCNA be a more logical progression than Network + >CCNP?

I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand the nuances, and possibly save me from spending money where I don't need to.

So I guess what I'm asking now is with no experience would I have a better chance at obtaining entry level positions going the sys admin (MSCA) or network admin (CCNA) route assuming I skip the entry level certs? I would think the Microsoft certs would be worth more than the Comptia certs. Even the Comptia Security + cert is broad and a vendor specific cert would make my career path seem more obvious to a prospective employer?

Am I just over-thinking this?

Sorphius · Jan 26, 2017

I don't think there's a single "right" answer to that question. What do you do now? What kinds of self-taught IT experience do you have? How well can you sell yourself?

It's not unheard-of for someone's first job to be a Network Administrator, but at the same time those people tend to be coming out of a dedicated B.S. or A.S. program with internship experience and a ton of coursework in networking. The much more common path is the one I described above, where you get a foot in at the ground level and work your way up by getting hands-on experience and studying on the side.

I understand your dilemma -- I was actually in a very similar situation when I switched into IT after a decade as a teacher and teacher-trainer. Someone earlier pointed out that at the end of the day, in IT it's about what you know; not what certs or degrees you have. No certification in the world is going to single-handedly get you a job. It can get your resume a second look, and may even get you into the interview room. But once you're there, it's all about how well you convince the employer that you're the person for the job, and that boils down to your knowledge of the interview questions and how well you "click" with the team.

A lot of people thumb their nose at the traditional entry-level certs, and to be honest, with so many brain dumps out there, you can argue that *most* certs don't actually mean anything more than that you're able to pass a multiple-choice test. Heck, if I'm being honest I'm pretty sure I could have passed my A+ without ever having studied, and I sure as heck didn't learn anything from reading Meyers' book and watching Professor Messer's videos that I didn't already know from 10 years of tinkering in my home lab and trolling various tech boards. I did it, though, because for my particular situation (B.A. in History, M.Ed. in Curriculum and Instruction, and 10 years as an educator), it was something tangible that I could put on my resume to show prospective employers that I have the basic knowledge to be a helpdesk/desktop support tech. I never directly asked (although I often wondered) how much the A+ cert weighed in their decision to hire me, but I'm pretty sure that without it they would have just tossed my application. At the same time if I'd spent the time and money to get a MCSA and CCNA and applied for the same entry-level position, they more than likely would have considered me over qualified and not given me an interview, or written me off as a "paper CCNA/MCSA".

It's an awkward position to be in for sure, but it's not insurmountable. And if you're motivated and a quick learner, you can progress quickly once you get a foot in the door. But you have to start someplace, and unless the job you're about to be laid-off from is in a related field, that someplace will most likely be on the ground floor. So IMO do a quick and easy ground floor cert or two: A+, Net+, maybe a MTA if that's your thing, and see if you can get that foot in the door. Then once you're there, continue studying for the more advanced entry-level pieces while you're getting the real-world enterprise experience that the kinds of jobs that want a CCNA/MCSA will expect you to have.

Edit: Another reason to go CompTIA is that a lot of government IT jobs require Security+, if that's a path you want to explore. Either way, the broader theme of get something truly ground-level to get a foot in the door while you study for something better still stands.

aweir · Jan 26, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorphius

It's an awkward position to be in for sure, but it's not insurmountable. And if you're motivated and a quick learner, you can progress quickly once you get a foot in the door. But you have to start someplace, and unless the job you're about to be laid-off from is in a related field, that someplace will most likely be on the ground floor. So IMO do a quick and easy ground floor cert or two: A+, Net+, maybe a MTA if that's your thing, and see if you can get that foot in the door. Then once you're there, continue studying for the more advanced entry-level pieces while you're getting the real-world enterprise experience that the kinds of jobs that want a CCNA/MCSA will expect you to have.

Edit: Another reason to go CompTIA is that a lot of government IT jobs require Security+, if that's a path you want to explore. Either way, the broader theme of get something truly ground-level to get a foot in the door while you study for something better still stands.

That's some very practical advice, thanks.

SoloCamo · Jan 26, 2017

Good advice in this thread and it is really eye opening for me. I've been in and out of IT a few times and do not have a single cert to my name nor did I finish my AS degree yet either (in and out of college for like 10 years due to making work priority

).

Getting your foot in the door is by far the hardest part. I've got the experience but without the certs and degree(s) I'm having a really hard time getting back into IT these days. Absolutely correct on the government IT jobs, they have become far stricter these days.

The unfortunate part of the mess is I hear from friends and prior coworkers that a lot of people hired on these days are simply brought on due to degrees and certs and they show their true colors when actually asked to do the task. I've known many people not to get promoted or hired on due to missing a piece of paper even when they clearly can demonstrate they are experts in the field. It's a shame really, but it's one of the reasons I'm forcing myself back into college at this point.

A large IT firm I was contracted out to did not hire on 25+ contractors (myself included) at one point simply because we did not have a degree - and I mean any degree. Even if they were currently attending school as I was (was going for an IT security major) they were still let go. The best part is, those 25 or so made up the majority of their top performing workers for that department. Somethings not right when you keep people with psychology or arts degrees just because they have a paper saying they can pass tests. But hey, it's corporate IT. It doesn't make sense.

aweir · Jan 26, 2017

I realize that experience counts more than a certification sometimes. Actually I'm about to purchase a used server/workstation with Windows Server 2012 on it for about $200. Hopefully I can setup some type of home networking lab and maybe learn a little bit. I have heard of people buying Cisco kits for like $400 off eBay to put their CCNA: routing and switching studies to the test at home.

hawkeye071292 · Jan 27, 2017

Might I suggest just using Azure VM free trials? Then you can learn it, and hyper-V/virtualization at the same time. I just gave my buddy my old home server. Takes up too much room. Just remember to turn your VMs off!

You can even get the free ESXi to learn on from vmWare.

Is there a lot of confusion surrounding the CCNA being an entry level cert or not?

aweir

Alxz

aweir

hawkeye071292

aweir

Sorphius

hawkeye071292

aweir

Relevant Wing

hawkeye071292

aweir

Relevant Wing

aweir

Sorphius

aweir

SoloCamo

aweir

hawkeye071292

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities