Build log 90s retro PC with PIII and Win98 for DOS gaming

Dhoulmagus · Mar 11, 2017

That is awesome! If you got more than one keep one sealed to collect!

Guessing you're going with Win98 SE then? Wise choice, but you will be back for more. The power of retro compels you.

I will be here when you are building a 486 for the turbo button glory. It will happen.

Renairy · Mar 11, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious_Don

That is awesome! If you got more than one keep one sealed to collect!

Guessing you're going with Win98 SE then? Wise choice, but you will be back for more. The power of retro compels you.

I will be here when you are building a 486 for the turbo button glory. It will happen.

Yes thats the plan man, use one and collect the other.
Windows98SE it is.

But i know i'll be back after this, so surreal what you find new and how exciting is this retro hunting?!

Dhoulmagus · Mar 11, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renairy

Yes thats the plan man, use one and collect the other.
Windows98SE it is.

But i know i'll be back after this, so surreal what you find new and how exciting is this retro hunting?!

That's really sweet. I would love to collect brand new in box classics. Unfortunately most of the stuff I have is things I ran back then, all opened and heavily used =D.

I check ebay and forum sales daily, you never know when a good deal is going to show up. Especially when you're looking for specific parts, people post things for insane prices on ebay because there are no other ones around to compete. Goodwill stores are always a great place to find goodies.

Renairy · Mar 11, 2017

Thoughts on a Voodoo3 2000 ?

ozlay · Mar 11, 2017

Voodoo3 2000 is a nice card. I would also look at the voodoo 5 5500 if you can find one for a good price. You can even SLI some voodoo cards if you wanted. I use to have a voodoo 2 sli.

Dhoulmagus · Mar 11, 2017

Just out of curiosity, what resolution is the monitor you're going to use with this setup / the resolution you are aiming for?

Renairy · Mar 11, 2017

Voodoo3 was the last of the 90's era so i think i may stick to this card.
I've seen videos of it handling some pretty intensive games so i might stick here.

what resolutions should i be aiming for? 800x600? 1024x768?

tpi2007 · Mar 11, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renairy

Ive decided to go PIII route.

Just picked up these babies brand new both sealed for $100

Slot 1 Pentium 3's.

As others have pointed out, going to try to avoid the Geforce 6200 since it would be technically cheating, so will keep an eye out for high-end late 90's cards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuivamaa

I bought my Katmai PIII in november 1999, paired with a voodoo 3 3000.Look around for 3Dfx cards since nothing screams "mid-late 90s pc gaming" louder than those.

Click to expand...

On it, thankyou for the input.

What motherboard did you buy / plan to buy to go with that chip? That is a very nice box, but I'd wait before opening that collectible as it might not be compatible. Try to find the manual for the board and see if it lists Coppermine CPUs as compatible. That Pentium 3 Coppermine is built on a Slot 1 interface to give upgrade room, but it was mainly intended for socket 370, so it may not be compatible with all boards that were made before it was a thing; especially Pentium II era boards (440BX based) - the safest bet for those is a 600 Mhz Katmai P III.

Also, that 100 Mhz FSB will bottleneck the CPU a bit (vs. the 133 Mhz version).

Renairy · Mar 11, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007

What motherboard did you buy / plan to buy to go with that chip? That is a very nice box, but I'd wait before opening that collectible as it might not be compatible. Try to find the manual for the board and see if it lists Coppermine CPUs as compatible. That Pentium 3 Coppermine is built on a Slot 1 interface to give upgrade room, but it was mainly intended for socket 370, so it may not be compatible with all boards that were made before it was a thing; especially Pentium II era boards (440BX based) - the safest bet for those is a 600 Mhz Katmai P III.

Also, that 100 Mhz FSB will bottleneck the CPU a bit (vs. the 133 Mhz version).

Havnt got to the board yet.
He had 2 of these sealed and i just had to grab them both. They'll be shipped out to me next week so i have till then to find a motherboard.

Renairy · Mar 11, 2017

Got this card practically brand new for $6.50
ATI rage 128 pro

Aaron_Henderson · Mar 11, 2017

I have one of those Rage Pro cards (and a 600MHz slot 1 Pentium III too), but I haven't played with it in ages...what happened with the Voodoo card you were looking at?
Quote:

Originally Posted by marik123

I'm also itching to build a fast retro machine and so far this is what I have from the old parts I savaged from my office PC.

Sempron 2200+ o/c to 200x9 = 1800mhz
ECS 741GX-M2 Motherboard
2GB DDR400 RAM
40GB IDE HD
IDE DVD/CDRW
64MB GF3 Ti200 o/c to Ti500 speed
350W Seasonic 80 Plus power supply
Old E-Machine Case
Currently running windows 2000 SP4

It will run 98SE, but then I can't get it to work with 2GB RAM installed. The best I can do is to edit one of the ini file, forgot which one it is to change the vache, then I can boot with 1GB RAM installed.

This is basically identical to my first ever scratch built PC back in the day. I think I was about 12 years old or so lol

Dhoulmagus · Mar 11, 2017

Rage 128 Pro is a nice 32 bit capable card. You will get a nice experience on the desktop at 1024x768 or 1280x1024. Not sure about 1600x1200 if you have a really nice screen for it. Games were usually played at 800x600 at the time, rage 128 pro could do 1024x768 with relative ease.

Coppermine P3s came out later, so you may get somewhat better results than what you see in benchmarks circa 1998.

Now I kind of want to do a pentium 3 setup.. I'm going to need a mansion.

edit: http://www.anandtech.com/show/205/5 some old numbers from anandtech, you can see they ran it with much slower processors. Coppermine was super fast for 99

Dhoulmagus · Mar 11, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007

What motherboard did you buy / plan to buy to go with that chip? That is a very nice box, but I'd wait before opening that collectible as it might not be compatible. Try to find the manual for the board and see if it lists Coppermine CPUs as compatible. That Pentium 3 Coppermine is built on a Slot 1 interface to give upgrade room, but it was mainly intended for socket 370, so it may not be compatible with all boards that were made before it was a thing; especially Pentium II era boards (440BX based) - the safest bet for those is a 600 Mhz Katmai P III.

Also, that 100 Mhz FSB will bottleneck the CPU a bit (vs. the 133 Mhz version).

The issue with BX boards as I remember it is the AGP and PCI divider. You can run a P3 coppermine but the 100/133 bus will screw up the bandwidth to the AGP and PCI slots.

I would get an 800 series chipset socket 370 board like an abit ST6 or Gigabyte GA-6OXT-A (there are plenty of other choices). If those P3s are later steppings they will likely run at 1066mhz / 133 bus with ease, provided the memory can take it, and it won't create issues with your add on cards.

I'm wondering if there are any markings on his boxes that would indicate the stepping of his P3s?

Renairy · Mar 11, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson

I have one of those Rage Pro cards (and a 600MHz slot 1 Pentium III too), but I haven't played with it in ages...what happened with the Voodoo card you were looking at?

I'm still going to grab a voodoo3 card as well, but that rage card was super cheap and new so i couldnt pass it up.
Also because the voodoo's dnt do 32bit apparently.
I think the rage fury maxx might be the best card to use since it is 2 rage pro's on one pcb back in 99! Performs well too per reviews.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious_Don

The issue with BX boards as I remember it is the AGP and PCI divider. You can run a P3 coppermine but the 100/133 bus will screw up the bandwidth to the AGP and PCI slots.

I would get an 800 series chipset socket 370 board like an abit ST6 or Gigabyte GA-6OXT-A (there are plenty of other choices). If those P3s are later steppings they will likely run at 1066mhz / 133 bus with ease, provided the memory can take it, and it won't create issues with your add on cards.

I'm wondering if there are any markings on his boxes that would indicate the stepping of his P3s?

Thanks for that info on boards. Still hunting the best one down.
Ill let you know if the cpu boxes say anything when they get here next week.

Renairy · Mar 12, 2017

So, just pulled the trigger on the SE440BX-2, also brand new.
Will get here in 7-11 days.
$53 (AUD)

ozlay · Mar 12, 2017

You could go with a duel socket board. Add a second cpu later.

Renairy · Mar 12, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozlay

You could go with a duel socket board. Add a second cpu later.

i was actually thinking to do that and also found a really cheap board with two PIII's already on it, but i couldnt find a new one and i'm doing my best to find everything brand new.
Probz do a vid and upload it to the tube on a brand new late 90's build in 2017

The monitor is proving very hard to find right now.

Dhoulmagus · Mar 12, 2017

Nice board, I'm curious what Bios version is on it. I see it has a sticker for 100 mhz FSB support which according to the link below came with revision p07, but it needs p14 or higher for the 800Mhz PIII. I'm also not sure if it would post for you to upgrade with the 800 or not if it didn't have p14 or higher.. Worst comes to worst you could just buy a junk celeron or something if need be.

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Intel/SE440BX-2.html

Just leaving this here so you don't panic if it doesn't post with your p3, but I expect it will.

---

Build is starting to come along very nicely! I know how you feel about finding a CRT, you have to find them local or pay an arm and a leg in shipping.. My last CRT just went in a dumpster sadly, just a cruddy Dell generic I got tired of fixing. I'd suggest just grabbing a dirt cheap old 4:3 LCD to tide you over until you find a good CRT for it, if you buy them in a rush you'll spend way too much

Now to pick out your SDRAM

tpi2007 · Mar 12, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renairy

Got this card practically brand new for $6.50
ATI rage 128 pro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renairy

So, just pulled the trigger on the SE440BX-2, also brand new.
Will get here in 7-11 days.
$53 (AUD)

Those are some very nice finds!

The motherboard interestingly doesn't have the 512 MB limitation of later Intel socket 370 boards, that wouldn't initialize more than 512 MB of RAM; yours goes up to 768 MB.

And you really nailed it (but I bet you already know that) on the CPU + Motherboard combination, it's the fastest CPU validated for the board.

Yamaha audio controller, AGP slot, PCI slots and two ISA slots, you've got the lot.

One of the things that Intel does best is documentation, I'll leave this here for those interested (also includes the BIOS and drivers): https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/50527/Intel-Desktop-Board-SE440BX-2

Now, the major question is - how will you install the games? CD-ROM drive? DVD-ROM drive? Will you cheat? Haha. I mean, will you buy a PCI expansion card with USB 2.0 or even 3.0 ports to speed things up or will you endure USB 1.1 speeds?

And how much RAM? Btw, PC133 should work, it will just run at 100 Mhz, so your choices are broader (although from a cheating perspective PC133 RAM is probably a no go).

Oh yeah, I forgot, even though Windows 98 already has the stuff from the Windows 95 Plus! pack included, and some of the Power Toys (like the quick launch buttons and the ability to change the resolution without having to reboot the system), it also has a "Microsoft Plus! 98" pack, so you might want to look into that. Includes a file cleaner, Windows Explorer ZIP files integration and... Spider Solitaire, among other games and goodies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious_Don

Nice board, I'm curious what Bios version is on it. I see it has a sticker for 100 mhz FSB support which according to the link below came with revision p07, but it needs p14 or higher for the 800Mhz PIII. I'm also not sure if it would post for you to upgrade with the 800 or not if it didn't have p14 or higher.. Worst comes to worst you could just buy a junk celeron or something if need be.

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Intel/SE440BX-2.html

Just leaving this here so you don't panic if it doesn't post with your p3, but I expect it will.

---

Build is starting to come along very nicely! I know how you feel about finding a CRT, you have to find them local or pay an arm and a leg in shipping.. My last CRT just went in a dumpster sadly, just a cruddy Dell generic I got tired of fixing. I'd suggest just grabbing a dirt cheap old 4:3 LCD to tide you over until you find a good CRT for it, if you buy them in a rush you'll spend way too much

Now to pick out your SDRAM

Good point about the BIOS revision. A Katmai PIII would boot and work, although eventually identified as a PII (probably not the specific board revision he bought because it already says it's for PIII's) and not 100% stable, but it would do the trick to get to update the BIOS, but a Coppermine I'm not so sure it would boot. But yeah, a cheap Celeron or any Pentium II will do the trick.

Renairy · Mar 12, 2017

It does seem that this board is capable of running the CPU's but yes i'd also be interested in knowing what BIOS came with it.
I did some research regarding it's compatibility and it seems the board can use even 1Ghz PIII's

Heres that thread
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=38524

@ Serious
Yes exactly that plus the fact that no one even has them anymore, my hunt has to deepen and i must resort to garage sales and flea markets becasue i must have a decent CRT

Also yes, havnt started on the RAM yet but i will, the other batch i found earlier i didnt go pickup because the board was damaged, but he had a whole lot of RAM so i might end up picking them up anyway.

@Tpi
Honestly, you guys led me in the right direction, and by chance i happened to find these brand new. Woah.

I'm not going to cheat, going to use CD-ROM and both 5.5" and 3.5" floppys.
I'm also going step further and only using the real original game media for install, no copies or rips.
This would also help my collection grow should i want to play a game i don't have.
I will endure the speeds and.......... party like its 1999

(R.I.P Prince)

Ok, now RAM.
So PC133 SDRAM is the way?

Can't thankyou guys enough for all the input.

Build log 90s retro PC with PIII and Win98 for DOS gaming

Dhoulmagus

Renairy

Dhoulmagus

Renairy

ozlay

Dhoulmagus

Renairy

tpi2007

Renairy

Renairy

Aaron_Henderson

Dhoulmagus

Dhoulmagus

Renairy

Renairy

ozlay

Renairy

Dhoulmagus

tpi2007

Renairy

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Build log 90s retro PC with PIII and Win98 for DOS gaming