So I'm running with Inter-Tech Energon 650W... should I change ASAP?

Knjaz136 · Apr 25, 2017

An old PSU from the previous build I bought off someone. The more I search about it the more I start to doubt it, as it's literally not listed anywhere (in those PSU "Tier" lists). But - it's OEM is Huizhou Xin Hui Yuan Tech., and as far as I got it's not a very reputable manufacturer.
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/intertech.htm

Been experiencing some artifacting issues with RX 480 8gb for a while when switching resolutions/etc (random driver crashes too), also can't go over 4.8ghz stable OC on i3-7350k (yes, that CPU that nobody needs, it's a niche solution for my very niche demands). What are the chances PSU is at fault and I'm sitting on a time bomb here?

So I think about upgrading to Seasonic S12ii 620W. (no need to go for modular M12, dont care that much for cable management, I run an open case anyway), with the thought of putting whatever the most powerful LGA 1151 CPU there will be in existence after 1-1.5 years and some powerful enough GPU of the time, both OC'd. (be it second-hand 7700k or i7 Coffee Lake if it'll come out on 1151)

Any advices/comments on initial question about Energon 650W? Is it as bad as I suspect, and a miracle it still runs after 5-6 years ? (Don't know how much, exactly). Is S12II 620W enough for sort of high-end system with OC in future (no dual GPU setup) ?

TwoCables · Apr 25, 2017

Yes, please replace it ASAP for the love of your computer (and probably your safety and the safety of your computer).

The 620W S12II is an old and solid basic PSU but it can be loud under full loads and it can be pretty overpriced these days at most stores. What are your other options?

shilka · Apr 25, 2017

The Inter-Tech Energon series is some of the worst junk around so yes throw it into the nearest dumpster ASAP
As for the Seasonic S12II series those group regulated which means their voltage regulation are not going to be all that great

You are better off with the Seasonic S12G instead
As for wattage 500 watts is more then enough.

Knjaz136 · Apr 25, 2017

Thank you for your responses, guess I'm ordering a new one right today, just need to figure out which one.

I have issues with "other options" as my knowledge of PSU market is very limited, so I'm just unaware of what I should look for. This is the website we're using here to find stuff on online shops.
http://www.kurpirkt.lv/cena.php?q=S12II+620W

I'm looking for a ~70-75 eur. area, moderate/low noise is not an issue (as long as it doesn't start screeching). Something "futureproof", so it can handle a config of, as an example, OC'd 7700k+ OC'd GTX 1080ti level of power consumption. (some 1.5-2 years into future).
Quote:

Originally Posted by shilka

The Inter-Tech Energon series is some of the worst junk around so yes throw it into the nearest dumpster ASAP
As for the Seasonic S12II series those group regulated which means their voltage regulation are not going to be all that great

You are better off with the Seasonic S12G instead
As for wattage 500 watts is more then enough.

What are issues with S12II for my demands, can you go into more detail please? (for someone who's, unfortunately, not good with the power-related side of PC world, when it comes to voltages etc).

shilka · Apr 25, 2017

You can get both the non modular and the modular CX550 for less then 75 euro
http://www.kurpirkt.lv/cena.php?q=Corsair+CX550

Found a better option the non modular Vengeance 500 watt
http://lukass.lv/datoru-komponentes/korpuss-un-dzesesana/barosanas-bloki-psu/corsair-vengeance-v500-500-watt-netzteil-80-plus-bronze-zertifikat?p=311437

Edit: your crappy Energon by the way was not a 650 watt more like a 400 watt at best.
Edit 2: i will let TwoCables explain what group regulated means and voltage regulation is as he is much better at that

Knjaz136 · Apr 25, 2017

So, uhm, a 500W or 550W PSU will be totally enough to run a heavily OC'd config of 250W TDP card + OC'd to the wall i7 ? I somehow was under impression one needs 600W+ PSU for such things. Sorry if I'm noobing here, I'm totally not into the whole voltage control or whatever it's called.

P.S. Looking at the comparable pricing, that 500W could be a mistake on their part, so it leaves me with CX 550 (or CX 650W for 67 eur?) if they won't be able to sell me that thing.

TwoCables · Apr 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knjaz136

So, uhm, a 500W or 550W PSU will be totally enough to run a heavily OC'd config of 250W TDP card + OC'd to the wall i7 ? I somehow was under impression one needs 600W+ PSU for such things. Sorry if I'm noobing here, I'm totally not into the whole voltage control or whatever it's called.

P.S. Looking at the comparable pricing, that 500W could be a mistake on their part, so it leaves me with CX 550 (or CX 650W for 67 eur?) if they won't be able to sell me that thing.

Most people are under that impression because PSU-related knowledge is extremely rare.

When you say "heavily overclocked", what exactly are you talking about? Will you require a high-end water cooling system? I mean, if your budget isn't enough to get a better PSU than this, then I have to recommend that you reconsider your overclocking plans and tone them down for safety. The kind of PSUs you're limited to are just basically-good PSUs. They aren't intended to handle the stress of trying to keep a heavily overclocked system stable.

shilka · Apr 25, 2017

TDP has nothing to do with power draws
TDP stands for thermal design power or much how heat the part is officially rated for measured in watts

Modern PC hardware uses far less power then most think and even if you take a very high end system overclock CPU GPU and RAM add a full liquid setup and a bunch of rad pums and drives the power draw would still be less then 350 watts

Systems that are more down to earth will draw somewhere around 250 watts, sometimes more and sometimes less but around 250 watts for most systems
650 watts is for systems with multiple video cards or if you mess around with hardware BIOS voltmodding or even LN2 cooling

A 500 watt would be more then enough as long as you only have one video card
And its voltage regulation not voltage control.

Knjaz136 · Apr 25, 2017

Right now my budget isn't enough, and I'm not planning on water cooling in future either - though by that time my budget would be enough for water cooling, but I don't feel like doing it. Whatever the _limit_ air cooling will allow me to reach. That's what I meant by "heavy", going to the absolute limit such cooling solution would provide.Maybe going water at the time if I'll literally have no other options.

Thing is, I don't want to buy a PSU now and then change it when I'll need more power, so looking for the best solution in 70+- eur level. Would be grateful for explanation on, say, why CX 550w (or 650W) would be better than S12II, or why S12G is a better option. Going to order literally as soon as this discussion concludes, don't want to sit on time bomb any longer.

Also, thanks for letting me know my current one was more of 400W, that sheds light on things.

Edit: Oh, so 650W is for those extremes? Definitely 0 plans for SLI or Crossfire here.

TwoCables · Apr 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knjaz136

Right now my budget isn't enough, and I'm not planning on water cooling in future either - though by that time my budget would be enough for water cooling, but I don't feel like doing it. Whatever the limit air cooling will allow me to reach.

Thing is, I don't want to buy a PSU now and then change it when I'll need more power, so looking for the best solution in 70+- eur level. Would be grateful for explanation on, say, why CX 550w (or 650W) would be better than S12II, or why S12G is a better option. Going to order literally as soon as this discussion concludes, don't want to sit on time bomb any longer.

Also, thanks for letting me know my current one was more of 400W, that sheds light on things.

Edit: Oh, so 650W is for those extremes? Definitely 0 plans for SLI or Crossfire here.

Or you would need a 650W if you had a CPU that has an EXTREMELY high power consumption when overclocked heavily and a GPU that has a very high power consumption when overclocked heavily too. It's not *just* for having two video cards.

You can also find high-powered recommendations for people who are Folding on their CPU and video card(s) simultaneously 24/7. With an unchanging maximum power consumption 24/7, it's best to make sure it lands at 40-60% of the PSU's total output capacity. For casual gaming though, it can land at 90% and it will be fine because how many hours per day will it be at 90%? Only a few? lol

shilka · Apr 25, 2017

The Seasonic S12II are group regulated which means the 12v 5v and 3,3v rails are treated as one big group so when you draw power from one of the rails it draws power from all of the rails
This means that voltage regulation suffers

The CX the Vengeance and the S12G have individually regulated rails which means when power is needed it draws what it needs not from all of the rails at the same time which means voltage regulation is a lot better

If you are overclocking better voltage regulation means higher better and more stable overclocks, a group regulated unit on the other hand would be holding the overclocking back.

Knjaz136 · Apr 25, 2017

Thank you for an explanation on the voltage regulation part, so it means I'm down to these:

CX 650 = 67 Eur.
CX 550W = 57 Eur

Would rather go for 67 eur, 10 eur isn't a problem.

And V500 500W for 74eur. if they'll really sell it to me at that price, which likely won't happen. (online shops make pricing mistakes constantly, around here).

....so this one looks like best solution for both overclocks and futureproofing, given the 70-75 eur budget, right? (V500 aside).
http://www.kurpirkt.lv/cena.php?q=Corsair++CX+650W

Or based on the post below, it's this ^ thing vs S12ii, both at exact same price.

TwoCables · Apr 25, 2017

The job of the PSU is to take the super unstable Alternating Current (AC) that's coming out of the wall outlet and turn it into much more stable Direct Current (DC). It is *also* supposed to split that power up into different voltages as accurately as possible: 12V, 5V and 3.3V (to be as simple as possible). These are voltages that the different parts of a computer needs.

So, group-regulating is ok, but not great because that can result in one of those voltages being less accurate than the others and there's nothing that can be done about it. With individual regulation, the manufacturer can at least work towards improving voltage regulation for each voltage. Fortunately, SeaSonic's group regulation isn't exactly bad.

TwoCables · Apr 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knjaz136

Thank you for an explanation on the voltage regulation part, so it means I'm down to these:

CX650M = 67 Eur.
CX 550W = 57 Eur

Would rather go for 67 eur, 10 eur isn't a problem.

And V500 500W for 74eur. if they'll really sell it to me at that price, which likely won't happen. (online shops make pricing mistakes constantly, around here).

....so this one looks like best solution for both overclocks and futureproofing, given the 70-75 eur budget, right? (V500 aside).
http://www.kurpirkt.lv/cena.php?q=Corsair++CX+650W

Or based on the post below, it's this ^ thing vs S12ii, both at exact same price.

Can you link to just the PSUs in general? I can't figure out how to browse their PSUs.

shilka · Apr 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knjaz136

Thank you for an explanation on the voltage regulation part, so it means I'm down to these:

CX 650W = 67 Eur.
CX 550W = 57 Eur

Would rather go for 67 eur, 10 eur isn't a problem.

And V500 500W for 74eur. if they'll really sell it to me at that price, which likely won't happen. (online shops make pricing mistakes constantly, around here).

....so this one looks like best solution for both overclocks and futureproofing, given the 70-75 eur budget, right? (V500 aside).
http://www.kurpirkt.lv/cena.php?q=Corsair++CX+650W

Reason why the Vengeance cost so much more is because unlike the CX it uses all japanese capacitors where the CX uses chinese Capxons
There is some doubt as to how long Capxons can last so if you want better capacitors the Vengeance is the better option

The Vengeance is also multi rail where the CX is single rail and if you dont know what thats means here
http://www.overclock.net/t/761202/single-rail-vs-multi-rail-explained

Knjaz136 · Apr 25, 2017

It's Eastern Europe, no such functionality on our "get data from all shops" list

You just type in PSU model and it shows you prices at different shops.

TwoCables · Apr 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knjaz136

It's Eastern Europe, no such functionality on our "get data from all shops" list

You just type in PSU model and it shows you prices at different shops.

Oh.

Knjaz136 · Apr 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilka

Reason why the Vengeance cost so much more is because unlike the CX it uses all japanese capacitors where the CX uses chinese Capxons
There is some doubt as to how long Capxons can last so if you want better capacitors the Vengeance is the better option

The Vengeance is also multi rail where the CX is single rail and if you dont know what thats means here
http://www.overclock.net/t/761202/single-rail-vs-multi-rail-explained

So basically I get more precise voltage (CX-650W) on each different PC part vs the better longevity of the Seasonic S12II capacitors (those are japanese from what I get), choosing between those 2 PSU's, right?

shilka · Apr 25, 2017

Sory you totally lost me now.

TwoCables · Apr 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knjaz136

So basically I get more precise voltage on each different PC part vs the better longevity of the Seasonic capacitors, choosing between those 2 PSU's, right?

And either case is lightyears ahead ofthe junk I'm currently sitting with.

Yeah these *should* be way better. The Inter-Tech Energon strikes me as being the kind of a PSU that should be avoided at all costs.

But yeah, the better the PSU is, the better the voltage accuracy and stability is (the better the regulation and ripple suppression is). Since AC power is always rippling, that must be suppressed so that it doesn't kill the computer's sensitive micro electronics.

So I'm running with Inter-Tech Energon 650W... should I change ASAP?

Knjaz136

TwoCables

shilka

Knjaz136

shilka

Knjaz136

TwoCables

shilka

Knjaz136

TwoCables

shilka

Knjaz136

TwoCables

TwoCables

shilka

Knjaz136

TwoCables

Knjaz136

shilka

TwoCables

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