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Intel X299 (Socket 2066) VRM thread

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#141 ·
Just as a heads up running aida 64 at 4.6 ghz 7900X, (CPU under water ofcourse) at 1.3 volts, no such crazy temps to report, 55 to 60 degrees tops across the board. Will try cranking it higher tomorrow, but its getting late tonight.

At minimum Aorous 9 Gigabyte board seems to handle the temps just fine (as long as you got a good water loop to aid it)

edit:

Added bonus, got some 3200 mhz gskill ram for my old x99 board that I could only top out at 2666 at 1.4 volts on the x99 platform. Hit XMP for the X299 platform and it runs at that just smooth as butter.
 
#142 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

Just as a heads up running aida 64 at 4.6 ghz 7900X, (CPU under water ofcourse) at 1.3 volts, no such crazy temps to report, 55 to 60 degrees tops across the board. Will try cranking it higher tomorrow, but its getting late tonight.

At minimum Aorous 9 Gigabyte board seems to handle the temps just fine (as long as you got a good water loop to aid it)

edit:

Added bonus, got some 3200 mhz gskill ram for my old x99 board that I could only top out at 2666 at 1.4 volts on the x99 platform. Hit XMP for the X299 platform and it runs at that just smooth as butter.
Click to expand...
Did you delid it?
 
#144 ·
Is the delid tool even out for sale yet?
 
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#147 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSE HTML Validator View Post

I don't need to delid for a conservative overclock on a 7820X chip with a good air cooler, do I???
Click to expand...
Conservative as in 4.5 on all cores? Nah not from what I have seen. There are people in other threads pegging 4.7-4.8 with 240-280 AIO coolers with reasonable temps.

I think you'll be fine.
 
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#148 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by aDyerSituation View Post

Conservative as in 4.5 on all cores? Nah not from what I have seen. There are people in other threads pegging 4.7-4.8 with 240-280 AIO coolers with reasonable temps.

I think you'll be fine.
Click to expand...
Yeah, probably 4.5 or 4.3 on all cores. Glad to hear it.

But when will the 7820X and the motherboards be readily available for retail (or less) price? I should probably hold out to see what people say about Threadripper though... but I am getting itchy to build my new machine.

I also want the new G.SKILL DDR4 3600 RAM that's suppose to be released soon and is geared for X299 systems. I haven't seen that available yet either.
 
#149 ·
I was doing some market research the last week, thought you guys might be interested. Some prerequisites you need to know is that most of the time the VRM temperaure reading is from a thermistor placed somewhere near the VRM, essentially measuring the PCB temperature in that area. Typically the delta between PCB and MOSFET junction is around 5*C/W. This is 5*C temperature increase per Watt dissipated by the MOSFET, so directly related to the efficiency (typically 90-94% depending on load).

For example, at 300W output with 90% efficiency means input power is 330W. That's 30W dissipated mainly by the MOSFETs. Using 8 phases gives 30/8 = 3.75W per MOSFET. Delta between PCB and MOSFET junction is then 5*3.75 = 18.75*C, so if you're hitting throttling when the VRM is reading 105*C you're looking at 105+18.75=123.75*C MOSFET junction temperature. All the MOSFETs mentioned in this post have recommended max junction temperature (continuous) at 125*C and absolute max ratings (short term) around 140-150*C.

Without delidding, you're looking at CPU power consumption of max 250W on 6/8/10C with a good AIO cooler when increasing Tjmax to 105*C (94*C default). After delidding, or considering higher core count CPUs, this number is increased to the 300-400W range. If you add 1+1, you can figure out why so many boards do not have better VRM cooling.

At 250W output you're looking at roughly 140A of current at 1.8V VCCIN. Most VRMs for X299 are rated at 400A or more, which is overkill. This is, of course, assuming that you can take care of the heat generated by the VRM at that output current. The kicker here is that this limit is the same no matter how many phases a board has. Going to higher phase counts doesn't change efficiency by much. And, you still have the same total power dissipation from the VRM that you have to remove within a very limited footprint. If you have the same heatsink for two VRMs which are identical except for phase count, you will still be limited to the same max continuous output current.

ASUS X299

Solutions are all ASP1405 in 7/8-phase mode. Most are using 7/8x IR3555 (60A), except for the two TUF boards which use 7/8x IR3535 + BSG0812. Rating without considering thermals is 480A output (420A with 7 phases) for IR3555 based boards, and 400A/350A with BSG0812. VR_HOT is triggered at 105*C. Switching frequency is 500 KHz. The only difference between boards are the inductors and the heatsink solution. Prime X299-A/Strix X299-E/TUF X299 Mark2 have 7 phases for VCCIN, Prime X299-Deluxe/TUF X299 Mark1 have 8 phases.

Nothing new here, same VRMs as on the X99 models. You can check der8auer's video on what to expect from the heatsinks, about 250W continuous on Prime X299-A/Strix X299-E Gaming/Prime X299-Deluxe. TUF X299 Mark1 is slightly better because the backplate helps dissipate the VRM heat (5-10*C lower at same output). That's inside a case with minimal airflow and stressing the GPU at the same time. Rampage VI Apex is capable of 340W continuous output due to an improved heatsink design.

Gigabyte X299

X299 AORUS Gaming 3 and X299 AORUS Gaming 9 both use IR35201 in 8-phase mode using 8x IR3556 (50A). Rating without considering thermals is 400A. VR_HOT is triggered at 117*C.

Design is pretty much the same as the ASUS boards except for using slightly de-rated power stages (IR3556 vs IR3555). Only thing that might cause some concern is the higher throttling limit, which also allows the VRM to pull a bit more power than the competitors. Using the example from above at 300W output you'll be at 130-135*C MOSFET junction temperature before throttling. Depending on the test scenario (inside a case or open test bench) you can output about 280-290W continuously on both models.

MSI X299

Best case first, X299 Gaming M7 ACK. This thing has IR35201 in 5-phase mode, doubled using IR3599 to 10x IR3555 (60A). Rating without considering thermals is 600A. VR_HOT is triggered at 105*C. Switching frequency is configured at 300 KHz, after doubling this is effectively 150 KHz.

Quite a nice VRM setup, but the LED infused heatsink is not great. As described above, there's no point to have this many phases when the heatsink is unable to dissipate enough heat for it to make a difference. From my own testing, about 230W continuous output is what you're looking at without direct airflow before reaching 105*C. That's on an open test bed at 27*C ambient.

Going down in price, things are getting interesting with MSI. X299 Tomahawk Arctic is also using an IR35201 controller, but this time in 4-phase mode. This is then doubled to 8-phase and driven using IR3598. 4-phases are on top and 4-phases at the bottom. Each phase consists of 2x NIKOS PK616BA for high-side and 2x NIKOS PK632BA for low-side. It's a bit more complicated to calculate theoretical max for this configuration, but without considering the heatsink a simple estimate is the high-side continuous current at 25*C ambient temperature. This gives 2x13A = 26A per phase, total 208A (same method for IR3555 yields a derating from 60A to 56A).

Not sure what to say about this board, I'll let my test data speak for itself. The heatsink is a metal plate with another piece screwed on top. Going into the OS fully idle at desktop with a 10C CPU, the VRM thermistor is reading 60*C. Power output at this point is roughly 10W. After Prime95 testing, I had to settle for 175W output before reaching the 105*C thermal limit of the VRM. As with the other MSI board, this was on an open test bench without direct airflow on the VRM.

ASRock X299

The board I tested was the Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9. A little bit of a surprise here, they went with an Intersil ISL69138. It's configured in 6-phase mode with doubling to 12 phases using ISL6617. For output they use ISL99227 power stages which are rated to 60A. Rating without considering thermals is 720A. Thermal throttling occurs when then power stage reaches 140*C (using internal sense).

ASRock has a very nice design here capable of very high theoretical output. However, the power dissipation issue still remains and the heatsink is just as underpowered as the others. Because of the higher throttling limit (measured 132*C at the center of the inductors close to power stages), it's able to accommodate up to 320W output power before throttling. A cause of concern here is that at this point the power stage will be close to 140*C, while the recommended continuous temperature is the same as the others at 125*C. Same test scenario, open test bed and 27*C ambient.

Pictures

VRM and heatsink pictures
ASUS Prime X299-A VRM



ASUS Prime X299-Deluxe VRM



ASUS Prime X299-A/Deluxe heatsink



ASUS ROG Strix X299-E VRM



ASUS ROG Strix X299-E heatsink



ASUS TUF X299 Mark1 backplate



ASUS TUF X299 Mark1 heatsink



Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 3 VRM



Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 3 heatsink



X299 Aorus Gaming 9 VRM



X299 Aorus Gaming 9 heatsink



X299 Aorus Gaming 9 backplate



X299 Aorus Gaming 9 backplate (showing no contact between backplate and VRM)



MSI X299 Gaming M7 ACK VRM



MSI X299 Gaming M7 ACK heatsink



MSI X299 Tomahawk Arctic VRM




MSI X299 Tomahawk Arctic heatsink



X299 Xpower Gaming AC VRM



X299 Xpower Gaming AC VRM back



X299 Xpower Gaming AC VRM heatsink



ASRock X299 Professional Gaming i9 VRM



ASRock X299 Professional Gaming i9 heatsink


TLDR

Wattage numbers are roughly +/- 10W depending on measurement errors and ambient/error differences. Measurements are of VCCIN output power using VRM controller telemetry and confirmed by 12V input current clamp to make sure values are reliable.

Motherboard12V connectorsVRM configThrottling thresholdTj when throttlingTheoretical output currentHeatsink performanceMax output power
Asrock X299 Professional Gaming i91x 8-pinISL69138 + 12x (6x2) ISL99227~130*C140*C720AAverage320W
Asus Prime X299-A1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pinASP1405 + 7x IR3555105*C110*C420AAverage250W
Asus Prime X299-Deluxe1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pinASP1405 + 8x IR3555105*C109*C480AAverage250W
Asus Strix X299-E1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pinASP1405 + 7x IR3555105*C110*C420AAverage250W
Asus TUF X299 Mark11x 8-pin + 1x 4-pinASP1405 + 8xBSG0812105*C109*C400AAverage260W
Asus TUF X299 Mark21x 8-pin + 1x 4-pinASP1405 + 7xBSG0812105*C109*C350AAverage260W
Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex2x 8-pinASP1405 + 8x IR3555110*C115*C480AGood340W
Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 31x 8-pinIR35201 + 8x IR3556117*C121*C400AAverage280W
Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 92x 8-pinIR35201 + 8x IR3556117*C121*C400AAverage280W
MSI X299 Tomahawk Arctic1x 8-pinIR35201 + 8x (4x2) 2xPK616BA + 2xPK632BA105*C~112*C208ABad175W
MSI X299 Gaming M7 ACK1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pinIR35201 + 10x (5x2) IR3555105*C108*C600AAverage230W
MSI X299 Xpower Gaming AC1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pinIR35201 + 12x (6x2) IR3555102*C103*C720AAverage+300W

12V connectorsMax input powerHighest CPU recommended
1x 8-pin288W10C not delidded
1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin432W10C delidded or up to 18C not delidded
2x 8-pin576WAny CPU

edit: Updated info regarding Prime X299-A and Strix X299-E
edit2: Updated test scenario info for Asus boards
edit3: Updated with X299 Aorus Gaming 9 and restructured
edit4: Updated with Rampage VI Apex data
edit5: Updated with corrected spec for Mark1, and added Mark2
edit6: Updated with X299 Xpower Gaming AC
 
#150 ·
Fantastic post elmor, thank you so much.

Can I please ask you to comment further on the TUF Mark 1 VRM / Heatsink - I have a couple of questions:

1) If it is indeed covered in plastic, does that have a negative effect on cooling? Is it possible or useful to remove the plastic just on the VRM heatsink?

2) Will the TUF Mark 1 VRM be able to handle a modest OC to 4.5-4.6 on a 7820X? I don't think I can afford a R6A/E - I assume they will be $600+ in Canada.

3) Does the Gigabyte Gaming 7 have a better VRM / Heatsink combo than the TUF Mark 1? I'd like to stick with ASUS but I am very concerned about the VRMs.

Thanks again.
 
#151 ·
elmor, what about those reviews showing X299-A and X299-Deluxe with the same VRM design you've stated as the one from the Strix X299-E?
http://www.coolenjoy.net/bbs/review/486238?p=3
http://greentechreviews.ru/2017/07/05/obzor-materinskoj-platy-asus-prime-x299-a/
http://greentechreviews.ru/2017/07/05/obzor-materinskoj-platy-asus-prime-x299-a/
https://www.chiphell.com/article-18145-3.html
http://greentechreviews.ru/2017/06/26/obzor-materinskoj-platy-asus-prime-x299-deluxe/
Definitely there is one of those eight phases (that one with a TI NexFET) separated from the VCCIN buck converter.
 
#152 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyThreads View Post

Fantastic post elmor, thank you so much.

Can I please ask you to comment further on the TUF Mark 1 VRM / Heatsink - I have a couple of questions:

1) If it is indeed covered in plastic, does that have a negative effect on cooling? Is it possible or useful to remove the plastic just on the VRM heatsink?

2) Will the TUF Mark 1 VRM be able to handle a modest OC to 4.5-4.6 on a 7820X? I don't think I can afford a R6A/E - I assume they will be $600+ in Canada.

3) Does the Gigabyte Gaming 7 have a better VRM / Heatsink combo than the TUF Mark 1? I'd like to stick with ASUS but I am very concerned about the VRMs.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Well I admit there's a certain marketing spin on it, but the numbers are real. I hope others will keep testing and share their findings.

1. It's covered in plastic. The main problem is it's restricting airflow. As my testing above is without airflow on the VRM, the TUF design will benefit. If I point a fan towards the VRM, the TUF will not gain much but other designs will.

2. Without increasing Tjmax or delidding, you should be looking at about 220-230W max from that CPU. So yes, you will be fine. The TUF VRM will probably be around 80-90*C at that output power when stress testing.

3) Didn't try the Gaming 7 so I'm not sure what VRM it is or how the heatsink performs. If it's anything like the Gaming 3 it's very close on the VRM side, heatsink has at least more mass with that heatpipe connecting it to the I/O cover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by br0da View Post

elmor, what about those reviews showing X299-A and X299-Deluxe with the same VRM design you've stated as the one from the Strix X299-E?
http://www.coolenjoy.net/bbs/review/486238?p=3
http://greentechreviews.ru/2017/07/05/obzor-materinskoj-platy-asus-prime-x299-a/
http://greentechreviews.ru/2017/07/05/obzor-materinskoj-platy-asus-prime-x299-a/
https://www.chiphell.com/article-18145-3.html
http://greentechreviews.ru/2017/06/26/obzor-materinskoj-platy-asus-prime-x299-deluxe/
Definitely there is one of those eight phases (that one with a TI NexFET) separated from the VCCIN buck converter.
Click to expand...
Damn I completely missed this. I'm not usually working with these boards. You're right, Prime X299-A and Strix X299-E are 7-phase for VCCIN. Prime X299-Deluxe and TUF X299 Mark1 have 8-phase designs.
 
#153 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor View Post

2. Without increasing Tjmax or delidding, you should be looking at about 220-230W max from that CPU. So yes, you will be fine. The TUF VRM will probably be around 80-90*C at that output power when stress testing.
.
Click to expand...
Thanks again. One final question - is 80-90C on that TUF Mark 1 VRM a problem? Or is it built to handle those temps 24/7 for many years? I typically keep my computers for 5-6 years before an upgrade so longevity is a concern. Would I be better off with the STRIX and a fan over the VRM or does the TUF1 still have the better VRM?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out if I should cancel my pre-order or not.
 
#154 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyThreads View Post

Thanks again. One final question - is 80-90C on that TUF Mark 1 VRM a problem? Or is it built to handle those temps 24/7 for many years? I typically keep my computers for 5-6 years before an upgrade so longevity is a concern. Would I be better off with the STRIX and a fan over the VRM or does the TUF1 still have the better VRM?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out if I should cancel my pre-order or not.
Click to expand...
You plan to run Prime 95 for many years? Heavy stress testing the only condition that will bring your VRM temperatures to that level. Strix + a fan would yield lower VRM temperatures than TUF without a fan.
 
#155 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor View Post

You plan to run Prime 95 for many years? Heavy stress testing the only condition that will bring your VRM temperatures to that level. Strix + a fan would yield lower VRM temperatures than TUF without a fan.
Click to expand...
Thanks. No, I will never even run the Prime 95 test I suspect. Heaviest usage would be long Photo Editing sessions with multi-threaded plug-ins and long gaming sessions. I really appreciate all the dialogue.
 
#158 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor View Post

You plan to run Prime 95 for many years? Heavy stress testing the only condition that will bring your VRM temperatures to that level. Strix + a fan would yield lower VRM temperatures than TUF without a fan.
Click to expand...
I have the TUF Mark 1. I get a 7820x in today.

I'm wondering if the backplate only helped the tuf because you ran open bench. Once in a case will that plastic hurt more then a backplate helps.

What do you think?

Is it easy to remove the plastic over the TUF VRM?

Thanks.

*My main usage is gaming and a light oc though I don't want my mobo cooking itself.
 
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#159 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

I have the TUF Mark 1. I get a 7820x in today.

I'm wondering if the backplate only helped the tuf because you ran open bench. Once in a case will that plastic hurt more then a backplate helps.

What do you think?

Is it easy to remove the plastic over the TUF VRM?

Thanks.

*My main usage is gaming and a light oc though I don't want my mobo cooking itself.
Click to expand...
If you have a case with good airflow, the tuf should be fine for these scenarios. The backplate does a good job. For heavy loads, youd want a chassis with good airflow from the top.
 
#160 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

I have the TUF Mark 1. I get a 7820x in today.

I'm wondering if the backplate only helped the tuf because you ran open bench. Once in a case will that plastic hurt more then a backplate helps.

What do you think?

Is it easy to remove the plastic over the TUF VRM?

Thanks.

*My main usage is gaming and a light oc though I don't want my mobo cooking itself.
Click to expand...
TUF test was inside a case running Furmark on a GTX1080Ti. Will update the post with this info. It's not the easiest to remove the plastic above the VRM since it's part of the armor.
 
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