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[TH]Unannounced AMD 400-Series Chipset Appears In PCI-SIG Integrators List

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Computurd

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am happy that they have a new chipset coming that improves on the PCIe 2.0 x8 connectivity, but really they should have worked PCIe 4.0 in here.
Quote:
AMD announced earlier this year that it would switch from 14nm LPP to GlobalFoundries' 12nm LP process, so naturally, we expect it to have new processors in 2018. Now there are signs that the company will also bring a new chipset to market with the updated processors.
And indeed, AMD has a new AMD 400 Series Chipset listing on the PCI-SIG site. (The PCI-SIG Compliance Program tests products and ensures interoperability with the PCIe interface).
Click to expand...
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-400-series-chipset,36174.html
 
#2 ·
I think PCIe 4.0 will come in 2020 with a brand new socket and DDR5. There's no need for it now anyway.
 
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#3 ·
By the time their pcie 4.0 boards come out pcie 5.0 will be out. IBM is already using pcie 4.0. Even if its not needed Intel and AMD need to step up their game. I want pcie 4.0 M.2 ssds.
 
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#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Robot View Post

I think PCIe 4.0 will come in 2020 with a brand new socket and DDR5. There's no need for it now anyway.
Click to expand...
It should be pin compatible. No reason it can't be like, say, FM2+ that supports PCIe 3.0 with Kaveri and PCIe 2.0 with Trinity/Richland.

PCIe 4.0 would have some pretty good uses in datacenters with Epyc though. There's a reason Nvidia's NVLink can transfer 160GB/s between GPUs and they don't use the PCIe bus. AMD is using the PCIe bus and an upgrade to that should upgrade Vega in multi-GPU systems.

Also 2GB/s per lane would be extremely neat for SSDs.
thumb.gif
 
#6 ·
If it will manage Ryzen 7, with 36 PCI-E lines at least, i am in.
 
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#8 ·
I just hope the motherboard manufacturers start making higher quality boards with this next lot because the current boards are crap when compared to Intel equivalents.

We need better power delivery on all boards not just "the high end", more mATX & ITX options (seriously what we have now is utterly pathetic), overclocking options on ALL boards, the higher end X370 (X470?) chipset on smaller boards like mATX, proper ECC support on at least some board (Supermicro please?
wubsmiley.gif
) and overall just better quality like they give Intel boards.

Doubt any of that will happen but I suppose one can dream.
 
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#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiejuggalo View Post

I just hope the motherboard manufacturers start making higher quality boards with this next lot because the current boards are crap when compared to Intel equivalents.

We need better power delivery on all boards not just "the high end", more mATX & ITX options (seriously what we have now is utterly pathetic), overclocking options on ALL boards, the higher end X370 (X470?) chipset on smaller boards like mATX, proper ECC support on at least some board (Supermicro please?
wubsmiley.gif
) and overall just better quality like they give Intel boards.

Doubt any of that will happen but I suppose one can dream.
Click to expand...
One thing I noticed a lot back in AM3+ was that a good solid AMD board with good power delivery was about $150 CDN at least while mid range Intel board for $100 CDN always looked about as good if not better.

If I wanted to speculate I'd guess Intel gets special treatment from board makers due to always pushing new sockets thus increasing board makers profits. This with higher volume and Intel Inside deals and such would make sense for why Intel boards almost always seem superior to AMD boards in same price segment.

The fact that Bulldozer was so bad and required high end power delivery on mediocre chips didn't help the price of boards for AMD either tho...
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin1204 View Post

One thing I noticed a lot back in AM3+ was that a good solid AMD board with good power delivery was about $150 CDN at least while mid range Intel board for $100 CDN always looked about as good if not better.

If I wanted to speculate I'd guess Intel gets special treatment from board makers due to always pushing new sockets thus increasing board makers profits. This with higher volume and Intel Inside deals and such would make sense for why Intel boards almost always seem superior to AMD boards in same price segment.

The fact that Bulldozer was so bad and required high end power delivery on mediocre chips didn't help the price of boards for AMD either tho...
Click to expand...
But back in the AM3+ days AMD didn't really have CPU's that could compete so cheaper boards were fair enough, now however Ryzen is beating Intel in almost everything so it deserves boards to match.

Intel probably does get special treatment and they've also showing in the passed they have no problem throwing money around to keep AMD down so probably a bit of both going around... We'll probably never know in any case.

I just hope now that Ryzen has proven it's self the 400 series boards turn out to be better. Would love to see Supermicro make at least a couple AM4 boards just so we can have budget yet powerful NAS builds.
 
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#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiejuggalo View Post

But back in the AM3+ days AMD didn't really have CPU's that could compete so cheaper boards were fair enough, now however Ryzen is beating Intel in almost everything so it deserves boards to match.

Intel probably does get special treatment and they've also showing in the passed they have no problem throwing money around to keep AMD down so probably a bit of both going around... We'll probably never know in any case.

I just hope now that Ryzen has proven it's self the 400 series boards turn out to be better. Would love to see Supermicro make at least a couple AM4 boards just so we can have budget yet powerful NAS builds.
Click to expand...
Ryzen never held the gaming crown, and with Intel FINALLY increasing their thread count on consumer processors, they have taken back the home content creator crown too.
R7 is pretty much redundant, its only saving grace seems to be mult-threaded benchmarks. If you wanted a budget gaming rig, R5 1600 was the best choice until the Coffee Lake i5 was released.

Also, back in the day, FX990 chipset was better than the Z77 and yet motherboard manufacturers still put a premium on the Intel side.

I'd love to see more investment into AM4 from the big board suppliers but its not likely to happen. Some X370 boards are pretty good and look like their Intel counterparts, however they are few and far between and with Intel now firmly ahead again, we are not likely to see more premium AMD boards.
 
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#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricwin View Post

Ryzen never held the gaming crown, and with Intel FINALLY increasing their thread count on consumer processors, they have taken back the home content creator crown too.
R7 is pretty much redundant, its only saving grace seems to be mult-threaded benchmarks. If you wanted a budget gaming rig, R5 1600 was the best choice until the Coffee Lake i5 was released.

Also, back in the day, FX990 chipset was better than the Z77 and yet motherboard manufacturers still put a premium on the Intel side.

I'd love to see more investment into AM4 from the big board suppliers but its not likely to happen. Some X370 boards are pretty good and look like their Intel counterparts, however they are few and far between and with Intel now firmly ahead again, we are not likely to see more premium AMD boards.
Click to expand...
I know Ryzen never held the gaming crown, it did destroy Intel in multi thread stuff and some games loved the extra cores. Yeah Intel may have won back a lot but also look at the TDP of the 8700K it's 95w for 6 core 12 thread, you can have an 8 core 16 thread 1700 for $134 cheaper (in Aus) and that's 65w TDP and you can still clock it close to 4GHz, sure you lose out on single thread performance but you also get a socket that wont change in another 8 months.

The FX990 was good but the CPU's pulled a hell of a lot of power, got far to hot and just wasn't good enough.

Remember though this is just the first version or Ryzen, we have no idea how good the architecture is, how well it can scale or what will happen with a die shrink, it could be worse or once it's refined it could be better than Intel in a lot of things, we don't know yet. Intel has been stagnant since Sandy Bridge and everything we've had since is basically a revision of Sandy, even the 2011-3 chips are just slightly tweaked 2011 ones with small gains here and there to make them appear new and revolutionary.
 
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#13 ·
X470 & B450/B460 wishlist assuming Ryzen+ will require at least 1.1x the power when overclocked

I want to see AM4 get everything that Z370 has and more. Most of everything on the AMD platform is on the CPU already so the motherboards need to provide more IO , better LAN, and audio needs to be improved.

I also hope with the Nvidia SLI support dwindling, anything over 2 way SLI is gone for midrange and lower.

Assuming 8 phases you really want to have something over 90% efficient. For 6 phases you want over 93% efficiency ideally.





For IR3550 (prior gen IR3555) & ISL99227B assuming both are ~93% efficient , with 6 phases:

(Based on package thermal resistance to ambient , without heatsink and approximated with 93% efficiency)

ASUS
~$350? ASUS X470 ROG Crosshair VII Extreme (EATX) : 8x 60A International Rectifier IR3555 (~$3 each) interleaved with proper VRM heatsink , currently 8x 60A IR3555
---> might not happen since it doesn't have major flaws

~$250? ASUS X470 ROG Crosshair VII Hero: 8x 50A Infineon Optimos upgrade from 8x 40A TI NexFETs , a heatpipe on VRM would be nice too

~$180 MSRP Asus X470 STRIX - F : okay , a heatpipe would be nice but it is using 6x IR3555 (~$3 each) and could use debug LED

~$160 Asus X470 STRIX - I : add VRM temp sensor (6x 50A Infineon Optimos is alright)

~$150 MSRP Asus X470 Prime Pro : okay , cooler chokes would be nice (currently 6x 40A TI NEXFETS) , better memory VRM would be nice & a debug LED would be helpful
---> audio shielding (see Z370-A)

~$130 Asus X470 Prime A : make it less garbage for 8 cores, at the very least 6 phases for CPU
tongue.gif


~$120 Asus B450 STRIX : make it less garbage for 8 cores , instead of 4+4 maybe 6+2 phases with 6 CPU phases

~$110 Asus Prime B450? Plus : something less garbage for 8 cores

Gigabyte
$250+ Gigabyte X470 Gaming 8 / 9 or SOC? : 60A ISL99227B x 6 or 60A IR3555 x 6 with a good heatsink - with USB 3.1 gen 2 front panel header

~$200 X470 Gaming K7 : something stronger such as 60A IR3555 or even ISL99227B x 6, with a proper VRM heatsink and proper mounting pressure
---> up from 40A IR3553 Powerstages x 6
--> audio upgrade
--> Keep the dual BIOs switches!

~ $200 X470 Designare EX? (unlikely) : 50A IR3556 x 8 or ISL99227B x 8 ?

~$180 Gigabyte X470 Gaming 5 : something stronger such as 50A IR3556 x 6 or even ISL99227B x 6, with a proper VRM heatsink

~$160 Gigabyte X470 K5: make it less garbage for 8 cores

~$130-150 Gigabyte X470 K3 : make it less garbage for 8 cores

~$110 Gigabyte X470 Gaming: make it less garbage for 8 cores

??? Proper mATX board instead of the wreck that is the GA-AB350M-D3H & GA-AB350M-Gaming 3

Asrock
~$250+ ? Asrock X470 OC formula? : Something overkill such as 8x ISL99227B

~$220 ASRock Fatal1ty X470 Pro : 60A ISL 99227B x 6?
---> 10Gbps LAN upgrade
---> Dual BIOs as on Z370 boards would be nice

~$200 Asrock X470 Taichi : 60A ISL 99227B x 6 --- with USB 3.1 gen 2 front panel header ($7 each ISL99227) and adopt the new Taichi monochrome aesthetic from X399
---> Dual BIOs as on Z370 boards would be nice

~$150 Asrock K6 or K4 : 40A TI NexFETs x 8 or similar Dual-N mosfet Fairchild FDPC5030SG (~35A @ 100°C mosfet case temp) -- with USB 3.1 gen 2 at IO panel (~$1 each for the Fairchild and $2 each for NexFET)
---> Dual BIOs as on Z370 boards would be nice
---> heatpiped heatsink as on the Z370 variants

~ $140 Extreme4 or ~$170 Extreme6? : 40A TI NexFETs x 8 or similar Dual-N mosfet Fairchild FDPC5030SG (~35A @ 100°C mosfet case temp) -- with USB 3.1 gen 2 at IO panel (~$1 each for the Fairchild and $2 each for NexFET)
--> put a decent VRM on it, ALC1220, dual BIOs

~$130-140 Asrock Killer SLI: 40A TI NexFETs x 6 or similar ---> needs USB 3.1 gen 2 and ALC1220

~$120 Asrock B450? Pro 4 and K4 : something less garbage

~$150 Asrock X470 Fatal1ty ITX : 5x ISL99227B please ?

Proper mATX board instead of ASRock AB350M Pro4

MSI
~$250-350+ depending on implementation MSI X470 XPower : 60A IR3555 x 10 or x 12 or something overkill enough to be worthy of the name

~$200 MSI X470 M7 (or maybe Mpower): something more robust

~$160 MSI X470 Pro Carbon (& cheaper B450 version): proper doubling please , at the very least

~$130 MSI X470 SLI PLUS , X470 Krait : proper doubling please , at the very least

~$120 MSI B450 Mortar (matx) : make it less garbage for 8 cores

~$100 MSI B450 Tomahawk: make it less garbage (Tomahawk Plus was a step in the right direction)

Biostar
~$200 X470 GT7 : give it a better VRM heatsink and memory VRM and more USB , the X370 GT7 was alright but "VIViD LED DJ" should be removed for GT7 or RYZEN branding

~$140 X470 GT5 : make it less garbage for 8 cores

~$110 X470 GTN: make it less garbage for 8 cores

Part price each:
Intersil ISL99227B ~ $7 https://octopart.com/isl99227bfrz-t-intersil-76518822
International Rectifier IR3555 / IR3556 / IR3553 ~$3 https://octopart.com/search?q=ir3555
Infineon 50A Optimos ~ $1 based on similar ones https://octopart.com/bsg0813ndiatma1-infineon-57372540 or https://octopart.com/bsg0811nd-infineon-52807204
TI 40A NexFET CSD87350 ~$1 (used to be ~$2) https://octopart.com/csd87350q5d-texas+instruments-19874993?
Fairchild Dual N Mosfet FDPC5030SG ~$1 https://octopart.com/fdpc5030sg-on+semiconductor-84326489
Vishay 60A dual N Mosfet ZF906 ~$0.75 https://octopart.com/sizf906dt-t1-ge3-vishay-76953641
Normal powerpaks (or example Onsemi 4c06n , NIKOS PK632BA, or Vishay Sira12dp) ~ $0.25 to 0.40 each

Keep in mind that Ryzen uses less power than Intel parts partly due to the AVX2 implementation.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Robot View Post

I think PCIe 4.0 will come in 2020 with a brand new socket and DDR5. There's no need for it now anyway.
Click to expand...
It should be pin compatible. No reason it can't be like, say, FM2+ that supports PCIe 3.0 with Kaveri and PCIe 2.0 with Trinity/Richland.

PCIe 4.0 would have some pretty good uses in datacenters with Epyc though. There's a reason Nvidia's NVLink can transfer 160GB/s between GPUs and they don't use the PCIe bus. AMD is using the PCIe bus and an upgrade to that should upgrade Vega in multi-GPU systems.

Also 2GB/s per lane would be extremely neat for SSDs.
thumb.gif
Click to expand...
pin compatible for PCIe 4.0 is possible, but i don't think older CPUs would be able to run DDR5 rams.
in which case, his point about a new socket would be inevitable.
 
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#17 ·
I don't know why people are getting their hopes up about PCIe 4.0, it was only just finalized ~2 months ago. It takes longer than that, sometimes much longer, for finalized tech to proliferate into consumer products. I only want to know the X470's lane count so I know if I should buy into that or skip to Threadripper.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

I don't know why people are getting their hopes up about PCIe 4.0, it was only just finalized ~2 months ago. It takes longer than that, sometimes much longer, for finalized tech to proliferate into consumer products. I only want to know the X470's lane count so I know if I should buy into that or skip to Threadripper.
Click to expand...
It would be really nice if X470 can use all 32 lanes available from the Zeppelin die.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozlay View Post

By the time their pcie 4.0 boards come out pcie 5.0 will be out. IBM is already using pcie 4.0. Even if its not needed Intel and AMD need to step up their game. I want pcie 4.0 M.2 ssds.
Click to expand...
No, IBM and Mellanox and probably others are using an unofficial hardware spec of PCI-E 4.0. They are not using the official finalized version.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiejuggalo View Post

I just hope the motherboard manufacturers start making higher quality boards with this next lot because the current boards are crap when compared to Intel equivalents.

We need better power delivery on all boards not just "the high end", more mATX & ITX options (seriously what we have now is utterly pathetic), overclocking options on ALL boards, the higher end X370 (X470?) chipset on smaller boards like mATX, proper ECC support on at least some board (Supermicro please?
wubsmiley.gif
) and overall just better quality like they give Intel boards.

Doubt any of that will happen but I suppose one can dream.
Click to expand...
since one like me is interested only in high end mobos (due to the simple fact that when I swap a platform I tend to keep the mobo at least for 3/4 years and maybe a cpu change in the middle) I'm already fine with the current offer (I think I will take a x370 taichi) and the only thing I need is that in some months I will find it cheaper than now (at least in theory) ... the real question here is how they will stick to the new ryzens + coming the Q1 2018 but I don't expect any surprise.

The thing I agree with you is the ITX offer which is pretty limited even after 6 months of ryzen release
 
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