MSI TOMAHAWK Z790 or Asus ROG STRIX Z790-F for reliability?

Cobra26 · Dec 15, 2022

Hi all,

So im coming from TWO EVGA motherboards which where very stable lasted 7+ years (still working like a charm) NO issues at all. But these times man....where prices for GPU's and MB's are very high for what? I remember before the Bitcoin and scalping era high end MB's where around 250 - 400 bucks! Even tho i am a EVGA fan + the EVGA Z790 Classified that i really wanted BUT can't even order it in the EU to many loops and EFFORT i need to take to get that board at fair prices and even then it will cost me probably 700+ euro...........

Shame actually but it is to much for my budget. (the two EVGA boards where all around 300 euro BTW)
PLEASE NOTE i am NOT interested in overclocking at ALL (well not in the upcoming years that is)
Main task = primary gaming at 4k + browsing maybe rendering.

Planned setup: i7-13700K - RTX 4080 or 4090 - 32gb DDR5 5600 or 6000mhz - MB unknown yet - PSU Seasonic Vertex 1000 or 1200 watt.

Will be custom water cooling the CPU and GPU for Silence and longevity of my hardware.

So...How is the stability and reliability and above all how is the quality on the parts used ie VRM, chokes, PCB etc for the MSI TOMAHAWK series and the Asus ROG Strix series (inl Z690)? I am only interested in stability and reliability (but still have the option for OC if needed thus better have beefy VRM's) How does MSI compare with Asus Z690 and Z790 when it comes down to stability and reliability? IE don't want the MB die soon because of crappy build quality!

Your feedback is welcome thanks in advance

shilka · Dec 15, 2022

Its not really fair to compare the Tomahawk to the Strix as the Strix is more towards the higher end than the the Tomahawk is
I think it would be more fair to compare a TUF board to the Tomahawk

The board i would buy if i were to build a new system today would be the MSI Z790 Carbon WIFI
Yes it cost a lot but so does the Strix at least where i live

Edit: also note that Assus the bastards dont offer a single Z790 board other than the Extreme with more than 4 SATA ports
Main reason why i wont buy Assus anymore i have 5 drives how am i supposed to hook up my last drive? MSI is far better in that regard

RichKnecht · Dec 15, 2022

I went from an Asus Rampage VI Omega and 10980XE to a MSI Tomahawk D4 and 13900K. The Tomahawk has been a solid board so far. So far my only issue was getting used to the MSI bios. Having only had Asus boards since the early days of X58, it took me a little while to work with the MSI bios. I use the PC for editing photos and videos only, so I cant speak for the board’s gaming abilities or memory overclocking. I have to add that the 13900K is a beast out of the box. So much faster than my 10980XE.

bhav · Dec 15, 2022

If you're not going to be overclocking then it doesn't really matter which one you get.

Tomahawk is comparable to Tuf, but the MSI has stronger VRMs and I'm unsure if the TUF has a clear cmos button.

I cant speak for the DDR5 version, but the DDR4 tomahawk memory overclocking is excellent, fast training and recovery plus clear cmos button, so if you wanted to try memory OC in the future, the DDR5 version should also be similar.

Jimbodiah · Dec 15, 2022

If not overclocking then just compare features like usb ports, m.2 slots, usb gen2x2 port. Not much above the tomahawk is worth it unless overclocking. The edge has one extra m.2 slot (5) but at about $100-150 extra.

Cobra26 · Dec 15, 2022

Thanks for the replies guy's

In regards about OC will not OC there is no need for it when i play games BUT i might OC in 2 or 3 years when i wanna squeeze some more performance out of it. Basically i am ready when i need that extra performance out of the i7-13700K in the future. So it is best to have a board that can handle that ie good VRM's.

Not looking for features ie which one has more of this and that.

Main concern is reliability and stability between Asus and MSI which of the brands has a bigger drop out ie RMA's. This should tell me something about quality. Before i spend my hard earned cash on my new rig i want to prepare my self as best as possible to get the best and reliable hardware.
I do understand NOTHING is perfect even with good research you still can get a DUD but in order to decrease those chances im doing research.

Jimbodiah · Dec 15, 2022

OC boards will get more RMAs as people are cranking up voltages etc on those. So a weird way to select a board in my opinion.

Cobra26 · Dec 15, 2022

Jimbodiah said:
OC boards will get more RMAs as people are cranking up voltages etc on those. So a weird way to select a board in my opinion.

Hence it has to have beefy VRM's just in case i want to OC in say 2 or 3 years. OC has its benefits but i agree if cranking up the voltage it may lead to instability or worse...generally i think this happens on cheap components that advertised as high OC ready but in real life it causes issues. Il pass on those of course, Better spend that little bit of extra on a reputable brand that offers good build quality.

Jimbodiah · Dec 16, 2022

The Tomahawk already has 16x90A VRMs which seems complete overkill to me, and I doubt just dumping on higher rated chokes to look good on paper automatically means the board is actually any better.

I tend to make a table like below to get an overvue of things I am looking at in a motherboard. Here I was looking for a second mobo and comparing it to my current Z690-A.

View attachment 2588894

bhav · Dec 16, 2022

Had a similar thing on reddit with people disbelieving the tomahawk could possibly be any good due to its price.

Its both better specified, stronger VRMs and better for memory OC than a lot of £400+ Asus board.

'But its a a cheap board, surely more expensive ones have better VRM?'

Well, you do you and buy a £450 Asus board with 70A VRMs instead, not that it even matters.

Asus boards are also complete trash with 4 dimms, DDR4 or DDR5, from Ichirou's testing on DDR4 ones, MSI with 4 dimms are vastly superior to much more expensive Asus boards.

Now for 2 dimm top 1% memory OC on DDR5, you probably want an Asus maximus or soke such, but they're a mixed lottery, you can get a great one and hit 8000+, or a crap one regardless of IMC. The problem being that Asus have exactly zero quality control now, they make the boards and release without even testing them first.

Cobra26 · Dec 16, 2022

Jimbodiah said:
The Tomahawk already has 16x90A VRMs which seems complete overkill to me, and I doubt just dumping on higher rated chokes to look good on paper automatically means the board is actually any better.

I tend to make a table like below to get an overvue of things I am looking at in a motherboard. Here I was looking for a second mobo and comparing it to my current Z690-A.

View attachment 2588894

Nice chart you made you can see the power phases in one go!

Cobra26 · Dec 16, 2022

bhav said:
Had a similar thing on reddit with people disbelieving the tomahawk could possibly be any good due to its price.

Its both better specified, stronger VRMs and better for memory OC than a lot of £400+ Asus board.

'But its a a cheap board, surely more expensive ones have better VRM?'

Well, you do you and buy a £450 Asus board with 70A VRMs instead, not that it even matters.

Asus boards are also complete trash with 4 dimms, DDR4 or DDR5, from Ichirou's testing on DDR4 ones, MSI with 4 dimms are vastly superior to much more expensive Asus boards.

Now for 2 dimm top 1% memory OC on DDR5, you probably want an Asus maximus or soke such, but they're a mixed lottery, you can get a great one and hit 8000+, or a crap one regardless of IMC. The problem being that Asus have exactly zero quality control now, they make the boards and release without even testing them first.

Thanks for the reply,

Wait you said Asus does ZERO quality control on their MB's where did you come across this info? Links?

From what i gather the consensus = Asus makes good quality boards and can LAST a LONG time. Their record seems to be consistent.

MSI i wanna try them out but not before i know they are fairly trustworthy in their build quality for me reliability, stability (at stock or OC) and longevity is very important for me.

Right now i am leaning towards Asus i had 2 AMD Asus boards for my secondary pc's and never an issue both where running Linux without any hickup for 6+ years. My gaming rigs all Intel with 2 former EVGA mb's also NO issues at all for 7 years! If it wasn't for the price that EVGA aks for their EVGA Z790 Classified (700+ bucks) i would have gone with EVGA 100%. I remember a couple years ago a pretty solid high end EVGA board was around 400 bucks.....not anymore seems companies ALL of them hitch a ride with the SCALPING prices!!! For now my best experiences ive had with motherboards comes from 2 brands: EVGA and ASUS, make no mistake EVGA makes quality mb's (i know there was a time their mb's were bad but the last 10 years not so actually pretty good)

Jimbodiah · Dec 16, 2022

MSI and Asus are the top brands. I've been using Asus on and off since the 90s, can't go wrong with these brands.

Personally I want to try MSI for my next build, Asus has been having issues with their bios updates lately and MSI seems to be easier to run high freq ram without resorting to $700+ boards.

Waiting to see what the new AMD 3D processors do vs the 13900KS for gaming before I pull the trigger. The Tomahawk and Edge-ITX or on the short list, kind of hoping they release a pair of Unify boards in Z790 soon if I go intel.

Cobra26 said:
Nice chart you made you can see the power phases in one go!

Also pcb layers, but it seems they all use 6/8 so kind of moot.

bhav · Dec 17, 2022

Regarding Asus QC, simply way too many people getting Asus boards with problems out of the box.

I've had one with broken LEDs, and another that couldn't retain bios settings after powered down because the CMOS battery had a crushed cable under the VRM heatsink.

From the many many such stories you find, its evident that Asus no longer test their boards at all before shipping them out.

Now when you get one without any problems, great, when you get one with problems, not so great.

Cobra26 · Dec 17, 2022

Jimbodiah said:
MSI and Asus are the top brands. I've been using Asus on and off since the 90s, can't go wrong with these brands.

Personally I want to try MSI for my next build, Asus has been having issues with their bios updates lately and MSI seems to be easier to run high freq ram without resorting to $700+ boards.

Waiting to see what the new AMD 3D processors do vs the 13900KS for gaming before I pull the trigger. The Tomahawk and Edge-ITX or on the short list, kind of hoping they release a pair of Unify boards in Z790 soon if I go intel.

Also pcb layers, but it seems they all use 6/8 so kind of moot.

Im still researching what board i should get man....

Heck i might get a discount on the EVGA Z690 Kingpin or Classified NEW and cheaper then most mid/high end Z790 boards. Yeah most Z790 have 6 to 8 pcb layers.

The EVGA Z690 Classified has 10 layers PCB and the Kingpin has 12 layers if im not mistaken.
The EVGA Z790 Kingpin has a whopping 14 layer PCB and only TWO ram slots but this is for improved stability for memory overclocks and faster connection, and the Classified 12 layers PCB this i know is fact. I wanted the Z790 Classified but the price...700 dollars...I bet in EU its even more...such a shame i always bought EVGA boards but now i cant to expensive for me. If the where the same price as a Asus Z790 strix E it would be a NO BRAINER for me.

Cobra26 · Dec 17, 2022

bhav said:
Regarding Asus QC, simply way too many people getting Asus boards with problems out of the box.

I've had one with broken LEDs, and another that couldn't retain bios settings after powered down because the CMOS battery had a crushed cable under the VRM heatsink.

From the many many such stories you find, its evident that Asus no longer test their boards at all before shipping them out.

Now when you get one without any problems, great, when you get one with problems, not so great.

I see....unfortunate...

Just more reason to do more research we all take a gamble with any brand of MB....from my experience ive had 3 Asus boards without any issue. And 2 EVGA boards also without any issues.
I might give MSI a try but im still leaning towards Asus but im not done yet still have digging to do.

Jimbodiah · Dec 17, 2022

Mobo prices are friggin insane now. Bought a Z390 taichi for like $300, now the Z790s are $700+

I would not get a Z690 if you want to go DDR5, the Z790s have better DDR5 support for higher frequencies. If you look at the MSI Unify-X threrad (basically MSI's overclock oriented board with 2 dimms) even they say they would prefer a Z790 as it's easier to get higher ram speeds on those.

Your main dillema is if you will ever overclock and if so, how far will you OC. I myself only OC a little, I game at 1440p ultrawide where ram plays almost no part in the equation and even overclocking the CPU is debatable if it really brings any real improvements. If you are gaming at 4K then that is even less of an issue. RAM start to play a big role in low resolutions (1080p) where the CPU will be taxed more and thus also the ram.

I don't know what you do with your PC, so it is hard to judge or say "this is your solution". Personally I put my money in a 4090 and will end up getting a Tomahawk Z790 if I stay with intel (I need a second system, so looking at options like new AMD 3D). Since I don't overclock much and definitely not as a hobby, there is no point in spending 2x the price to get a Carbon/Ace for features I will never use. There is a lot of e-peening where people are getting Maximus boards at $800+ and never even overclock.

Right now I have an Asus ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming DDR4 and that thing can already handle anything I throw at it for overclocking. Got it for €279 here, it has been on perpetual sale here since august I think.

In short, I don't think you will go wrong with any board you choose from Asus/MSI. It really comes down to the brand, features and color you like. Even the MSI Pro Z790-A is used by a lot of people to OC and gaming. Not sure you can beat it at it's price. Determine how much you want to spend on the board, and pick a brand.

Cobra26 · Dec 18, 2022

Jimbodiah said:
Mobo prices are friggin insane now. Bought a Z390 taichi for like $300, now the Z790s are $700+

I would not get a Z690 if you want to go DDR5, the Z790s have better DDR5 support for higher frequencies. If you look at the MSI Unify-X threrad (basically MSI's overclock oriented board with 2 dimms) even they say they would prefer a Z790 as it's easier to get higher ram speeds on those.

Your main dillema is if you will ever overclock and if so, how far will you OC. I myself only OC a little, I game at 1440p ultrawide where ram plays almost no part in the equation and even overclocking the CPU is debatable if it really brings any real improvements. If you are gaming at 4K then that is even less of an issue. RAM start to play a big role in low resolutions (1080p) where the CPU will be taxed more and thus also the ram.

I don't know what you do with your PC, so it is hard to judge or say "this is your solution". Personally I put my money in a 4090 and will end up getting a Tomahawk Z790 if I stay with intel (I need a second system, so looking at options like new AMD 3D). Since I don't overclock much and definitely not as a hobby, there is no point in spending 2x the price to get a Carbon/Ace for features I will never use. There is a lot of e-peening where people are getting Maximus boards at $800+ and never even overclock.

Right now I have an Asus ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming DDR4 and that thing can already handle anything I throw at it for overclocking. Got it for €279 here, it has been on perpetual sale here since august I think.

In short, I don't think you will go wrong with any board you choose from Asus/MSI. It really comes down to the brand, features and color you like. Even the MSI Pro Z790-A is used by a lot of people to OC and gaming. Not sure you can beat it at it's price. Determine how much you want to spend on the board, and pick a brand.

Thanks for the reply m8!

I only want to OC a little but i dont think i need it for gaming well at least for the coming years either a i7 13700K or maybe maybe a i9 13900K because i will use it for 5+ years minimum.
I am not into RAM oc unless using a XMP profile on a 6000mhz DDR5 is considered real OC? Well it does in a way but i am talking about manual OC to go beyond 6000mhz i wont do that at all it can impact stability and im all in for stability.

It is true i found some EVGA Z690 Classified cheaper then most mid/high end Z790 boards most people say there is no real difference between Z690 and Z790 boards except HIGHER mhz on DDR5 i am fine with 6000mhz seems to be the sweetspot for gaming. Would you recommend the EVGA Z690 either the Kingpin or Classified no interest in RAM or cpu OC for now, 6000mhz ram is plenty for me. Plus the EVGA Z690 have more PCB layers 10 to 12 layers. And also the components used are high quality. If everything and if i must its gonna be an Asus board since i do have experience with them experiences that where good overall.

Jimbodiah · Dec 18, 2022

You and I are basically doing the same with the minimal OC and 5+ years refresh cycle. For your needs litterally the MSI Pro Z790-A or Asus equivalent is already all you will ever need. You don't need anything like a high-end asus/msi or even evga as those boards are solely aimed towards hard-core overclocking.

The extra pcb layers are only of interest if you are going to push cpu/ram frequencies to the absolute max. If you are OK with 6000 ram than even the cheapest Z690/Z790 can hit that. There really is no use in obsessing about Formula 1 technology if all you do is drive down the highway to work

On the other hand, it's a hobby, so if you like the look of it and have the money, who are we to stop you

her9019 · Dec 21, 2022

my 2 cents is that MSI MB are worth it after just building an intel system (10900k on a
MPG Z590 GAMING CARBON WIFI) recently and all is working well. again just my 2 cents.

MSI TOMAHAWK Z790 or Asus ROG STRIX Z790-F for reliability?

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Jimbodiah

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bhav

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