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TwoCables

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
The problem I eventually describe here is always too short-lived to get a photo or a video of it, so I'll try to explain it. First, I need to explain what happened on the day of my big upgrade because I think it's the culprit but I have no easy way to know for sure. I could re-build my old system, but that would be quite a project.

In April 2021, I upgraded to this: The Big Upgrade There are only 2 things inside the system that came from the old one: my sound card and my graphics card. I think maybe the 3 TB hard drive came from it too, but let's move on.

A part of the setup consists of two surge suppressors: one under my desk at my feet that I consider to be my secondary surge suppressor, and another that I consider to be the main one right next to my system. I have a floor lamp, my monitor, and my speaker system plugged into the secondary surge suppressor is plugged into the main one. Here's one photo I took on the day of the upgrade that shows the location of the main surge suppressor with the plug for the secondary one circled with an arrow pointing at the circle:

Electrical wiring Electronic instrument Audio equipment Gas Computer hardware


I had to move that main surge suppressor out of my way to put the system here. I simply grabbed it by the end where those gold connectors are and swiveled it out of my way so that it was much more parallel with the wall. After setting the system down and getting it exactly where I want it, I moved the surge suppressor back to this spot and proceeded to connect everything into the back of the system.

After making sure I plugged everything in securely, I turned my PSU on and then I pressed the power button on the case and I sat down and waited, but my monitor remained off. So I looked at the motherboard's diagnostic LEDs only to find they were indicating a graphics card problem. So I began trying to figure it out. There was a point where I was once again on my hands and knees next to my system with the surge suppressor swiveled out of my way again and suddenly out of the corner of my right eye I saw a ton of bright flashes that lit up the area above my desk top. That whole space lit up like a strobe light turned on and it lasted for just a few seconds.

I was still on my hands and knees motionless wondering what just happened and it dawned on me that it had to have come from my monitor. So yeah, I was like "Oh crap...."

I began a nightmarish process of swapping out the graphics card with my old one only to find I had the same problem: no signal, my monitor remained off and the motherboard's diagnostic LEDs remained unchanged. I put the graphics card you see in the photo back into the system and sat down to see if I could think of what might be causing this.

As I was on my hands and knees for like the 4th or 5th time, I finally discovered the secondary surge suppressor wasn't plugged in all the way; it was just BARELY plugged in, resulting in no power to the secondary surge suppressor and so also no power to the monitor unless I gently touched the secondary surge suppressor's plug, which also made my monitor flash again. Facepalm. Then I finally noticed my floor lamp was off. lol Good lord. That should have been my clue, but I was in Panic Mode.

So I pushed the plug all the way in and then everything looked fine, except for this problem I'm about to describe.

At various times, parts of some windows (relatively small like the size of a business card to extremely large parts where it's almost the entire window) will become black or white, usually black. It doesn't happen to just any window though, just specific ones: Firefox, or when I'm streaming a video in Amazon Prime (never when watching a downloaded video, just streaming), or Peace Equalizer, or Microsoft Outlook 2016 (from Office 2016), and now sometimes in Spark Desktop (an email app that I tried just for fun and now I love it), etc. The Taskbar also has a strange visual glitch problem where sometimes some of the Taskbar elements will change to a different shade of its color until I force a redraw in one way or another (like just doing a mouseover or opening the hidden icons menu). Like sometimes mousing over a Taskbar button will result in the Taskbar button still looking like my mouse is over it. Sort of. Then mousing over it again fixes it due to the redraw.

What I tried:
  • I bought some new high-end DisplayPort cables.
  • I tried the other DisplayPorts on my graphics card.
  • I tried tons of different driver versions for my graphics card, always uninstalling and then going into Safe Mode to use DDU each time to start as fresh and as clean as possible
  • I tried changing the monitor driver
  • I once again tried some of my old graphics cards
  • I uninstalled all of the AMD-specific drivers and reinstalled them one by one
  • I tried moving my memory to the other slots, which is the only compatible memory I own
  • I made sure the motherboard was set to its factory defaults. So, no overclocking of any kind or any other modified settings of any kind.
  • I went through every last setting in the BIOS to see if maybe there was something I needed to change. Every setting I found that I thought might have some sort of an effect on this made no difference.
So nothing free or inexpensive (or easy) I tried made any difference. A few days ago though, I was finally able to replace my monitor, which was the AOC G2460PG. Thanks to a great sale price, I bought the ASUS PG259QNR. That didn't solve the problem, but it did improve it tremendously. So now when this problem happens, it's just an ultra brief flash of black or white on the window, and the Taskbar doesn't have the problem as bad or as often, but Peace Equalizer was partially blacked out this morning and it stayed that way until I brought it to the foreground. So now I'm like, "Crap..." This monitor improved the problem tremendously but apparently it can still be pretty bad at times.

I forgot to say too that on the day of the big upgrade when I discovered the secondary surge suppressor wasn't plugged in all the way, I tested my system with some games to see if my system was damaged. Prior to the big upgrade, I was in the middle of going through the Watch Dogs campaign, so I started with Watch Dogs and within seconds of trying to play, the signal became extremely scrambled and I think a few seconds later I got it to recover and then that was it: it never happened again, leaving me wondering why the signal got all messed up just one time like that. I kinda stopped playing video games a couple months later though because I was getting tired of feeling the obvious bottleneck of my graphics card. lol (I was kind of all out of money after this upgrade). Still, during that time, I had no additional graphics problems in games that I can recall.

I don't know if the following is related, but a few months ago I discovered I lost the ability to download videos in Amazon Prime Video for Windows using the 'Best' setting inside of the Settings area. So I'm not talking about streaming. I can stream in Best quality all day (but as you may know, streaming in Best still gets you ugly compression while a downloaded video in 'Best' looks beautifully uncompressed), but if I try to download a video with the 'Best' quality selected in the Settings, it won't download. It just errors out after a few seconds. I can download in 'Better' quality though. Here's the thing: I don't know whether this is something they changed on their end and I'm just now realizing it or if it's related to this, but I was most definitely able to download in 'Best' quality before the upgrade just fine! You see, I went an extremely long time there with no interest in Amazon Prime Video, and I'm thinking that it's possible I lost that interest before the big upgrade, which would mean the first time I launched it since the day of the big upgrade would be just a few months ago. I tried to get help from Amazon on this, but no one can figure it out. They always tell me to try everything I already tried like checking to see if I'm running low on drive space or trying a different drive or re-registering my computer as a new device, etc. etc. etc, yada, yada, yada. They always get me to the point where I have to tell them that if this had such a simple solution, then I'd have easily solved it without any help. My system is the only one I can test Amazon Prime Video for Windows on, but I'd love it if I could easily get my old system up and running to see if my new system is at least a part of the problem. Again, getting it back up and running would be a bit of a project.

A few months after the big upgrade, I tried Windows 11 just out of curiosity, and strangely, the problem never occurred in Windows 11, except I think I still never even launched Amazon Prime Video for Windows in Windows 11. I think I had lost all interest in Amazon Prime Video for a super long time there. So the only thing I can be sure of is that somehow, Windows 11 didn't allow this problem of the partial blackouts or whiteouts to happen and the Taskbar never had any visual glitches like I described. Something about Windows 11 solved the problem. I came to hate Windows 11 after a few months though, so I went back to Windows 10 which brought back this problem just as it was before. So I can add that to the list of things I tried.

So now I'm wondering if this is just a problem with Windows 10. What do you think? I think I already tried toggling Settings > System > Display > Graphics settings > 'Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling' and 'Variable refresh rate' because I'm looking at those settings right now and remembering that I tried this already (and yes, I would have restarted my system after changing those settings). I tried everything I can think of. Y'know? I'm a techie. It's what I do when I encounter problems. However, this one is way beyond me. So I'm scared that maybe my motherboard or my CPU or my memory is messed up. I just have no way to know. The only way to be sure is by rebuilding my old system, which again would be a bit of a project that I don't want to get into. But then what if this is just the way AMD systems are in Windows 10? Yeah, I've also considered the possibility that maybe this is normal with AMD systems in Windows 10 because I've never had one before. So that's a part of what I'm asking here.

I apologize for how long this is, but I wanted to pre-answer all of the questions that I think would otherwise need to be asked. I guess where I'm at is, I think I want to know if this indicates a serious problem that I shouldn't be ignoring or if this is normal for AMD systems in Windows 10 or if it's something harmless and due to some Windows 10 setting I can change to work optimally with an AMD system. Sigh. I don't know. Or maybe it's something Microsoft did to Windows 10 and maybe this stuff started happening later than I remember, like maybe after Windows Update updated, which would've been 2 days after the big upgrade. I just don't know. I don't keep a journal. All I know is, I'd understandably love to solve this once and for all.
 
What AGESA are you on? Since installing 1.2.0.8 on both my rigs,,, BOTH are experiencing the same exact issue. On both rigs I'm having desktop icons, not the shortcuts but the icons, disappearing and the 1.2.0.8 is the ONLY remaining factor after a ton of troubleshooting that I have come up with. A few things for example that I've done: 2-3 clean Windows 10 installs in less that 2 weeks (on gaming rig) Stock daily rig is running absolute stock bios settings, btw. The first Windows install on my gaming rig I left my stable overclock intact, the next install I ran default bios settings and even then the icons kept disappearing. I've done the iconcachedb delete trick.. didn't work. It's not the GPU drivers as one machine is using an AMD GPU and the other is a NVIDIA GPU. The only similar factor has been the AGESA bios.. I'm pretty convinced at this point but not 100% sure yet. I rolled back my gaming rig to 1.2.0.7 hence the question what AGESA are you on?
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
What AGESA are you on? Since installing 1.2.0.8 on both my rigs,,, BOTH are experiencing the same exact issue. On both rigs I'm having desktop icons, not the shortcuts but the icons, disappearing and the 1.2.0.8 is the ONLY remaining factor after a ton of troubleshooting that I have come up with. A few things for example that I've done: 2-3 clean Windows 10 installs in less that 2 weeks (on gaming rig) Stock daily rig is running absolute stock bios settings, btw. The first Windows install on my gaming rig I left my stable overclock intact, the next install I ran default bios settings and even then the icons kept disappearing. I've done the iconcachedb delete trick.. didn't work. It's not the GPU drivers as one machine is using an AMD GPU and the other is a NVIDIA GPU. The only similar factor has been the AGESA bios.. I'm pretty convinced at this point but not 100% sure yet. I rolled back my gaming rig to 1.2.0.7 hence the question what AGESA are you on?
1.2.0.2. but I'm not having any disappearing icons.

Did going back to 1.2.0.7 fix it?
 
@TwoCables It's only been a day so it's hard to tell. I left my daily rig on 1.2.0.8, and my gaming rig will be on 1.2.0.7 as it overall seems like a better bios, even without the integrated PBO2. The issue is random so I'll have to wait a little while to see how this pans out: fingers crossed. With one of the installs I was doing over the two week period I had lost the ability to access my taskbar but I don't remember having issues on 1.2.0.2 so no heat issues with your GPU? Temps are OK?
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
@TwoCables It's only been a day so it's hard to tell. I left my daily rig on 1.2.0.8, and my gaming rig will be on 1.2.0.7 as it overall seems like a better bios, even without the integrated PBO2. The issue is random so I'll have to wait a little while to see how this pans out: fingers crossed. With one of the installs I was doing over the two week period I had lost the ability to access my taskbar but I don't remember having issues on 1.2.0.2 so no heat issues with your GPU? Temps are OK?
I forgot to say I checked GPU temps as well. So yeah, I ruled that out.

I never lost access to my Taskbar either. So I'm not sure yet if we're experiencing the same problem. Did you say you were only experiencing disappearing icons? I've never had an icon disappear.
 
Yeah that too.

So it seems are issues are not related.

Have you ran multiple Memory test over a week or so? the preferred test is TM5 antaXtreme or something..
 
Discussion starter · #7 · (Edited)
I didn't think about doing that. Hmm. I'll wait to see what your results are from going back to 1.2.0.7, and I"ll wait to see what others say as time goes on here. Fortunately, the new monitor has minimized the problem so much that it's becoming easy to forget I still have it.

Edit: Thank you for your response by the way. Even though it doesn't change anything on my computer, it makes me feel better about it knowing that maybe my computer is absolutely 100% fine and that maybe it's just the AGESA version. I was worried that some serious damage may have been done when that plug was barely plugged in and caused power to be sent to the monitor in a strobe-like manner. Not only that, but I worried that somehow the video card or the PCI-E slot or some part of the motherboard or the memory or the CPU got damaged since the monitor was connected to the graphics card via the DisplayPort cable. Since you're getting graphics-related issues too and if they go away by going back to 1.2.0.7, then maybe I'll look at trying some other BIOS versions.

I've been worried about this for 2 whole years.
 
The odd variable is the last OS install I did on my gaming rig I did it on 1.2.0.8 so who knows how this will pan out. The other outstanding issue is I can't create desktop icons for games through Steam so maybe that's related to the OS install on the gaming rig. I could find out for sure by installing steam on my main rig but unfortunately I'm not going to do that. Sorry I couldn't directly help I'll report back and let you know either way.
 
Did you try:

1. Putting your old video card back in to test this issue?
2. Reinstalling Windows 10 since Windows 11 seemed to work?
 
I've got to say, I have definitely ran into this issue on my system (AMD, Win 10).
At various times, parts of some windows (relatively small like the size of a business card to extremely large parts where it's almost the entire window) will become black or white, usually black.
Additionally, I've also seen this in a similar circumstance. Sometimes the icons will be black or white too. Different colour... don't recall but I know the images weren't drawn correctly. A simple "redraw" as you described it resolved it.
The Taskbar also has a strange visual glitch problem where sometimes some of the Taskbar elements will change to a different shade of its color until I force a redraw in one way or another (like just doing a mouseover or opening the hidden icons menu). Like sometimes mousing over a Taskbar button will result in the Taskbar button still looking like my mouse is over it. Sort of. Then mousing over it again fixes it due to the redraw.
I don't use my system a lot these days because I am usually on a work / enterprise device but this is just some level of affirmation that a) I've experienced similar issues BUT more importantly b) I don't know the source.

Furthermore, from my recollection, it really only happens in browser or on the desktop. Doesn't happen in a performance or professional application as frequently. I use to experience something similar in one desktop application, Autodesk Revit but I know that from personal experience that is not just my personal device. It's just Revit being Revit.

What may help is if / when this issue reoccurs, you take a photo and share it here. I mention this because you may go down a rabbit hole trying to resolve an issue with your system but others may have gone through it and/or resolved it.
 
Bios change didn't do it. I was able to recreate the issue by running LatencyMon which I think clears buffers before it runs. Desktop icons disappeared. However 1.2.0.7 does feel a lot better than 1.2.0.8

Good luck!
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
I've got to say, I have definitely ran into this issue on my system (AMD, Win 10).
Additionally, I've also seen this in a similar circumstance. Sometimes the icons will be black or white too. Different colour... don't recall but I know the images weren't drawn correctly. A simple "redraw" as you described it resolved it.
I don't use my system a lot these days because I am usually on a work / enterprise device but this is just some level of affirmation that a) I've experienced similar issues BUT more importantly b) I don't know the source.

Furthermore, from my recollection, it really only happens in browser or on the desktop. Doesn't happen in a performance or professional application as frequently. I use to experience something similar in one desktop application, Autodesk Revit but I know that from personal experience that is not just my personal device. It's just Revit being Revit.

What may help is if / when this issue reoccurs, you take a photo and share it here. I mention this because you may go down a rabbit hole trying to resolve an issue with your system but others may have gone through it and/or resolved it.
Like I said, I never have enough time to take a photo. I'd have to sit here with my phone in my left hand with the camera open while I try to operate my mouse and keyboard with my right hand hoping to somehow reproduce it before my left arm gets tired so that I can have any hope of having enough time to take a photo. A video is out of the question because sometimes it can take hours for this problem to occur.

Regardless though, you made me feel extremely good about this by telling me that you most definitely ran into the same issue with an AMD CPU in Windows 10. That makes me feel great! :) So thank you, thank you, thank you!

You further confirmed it's the same problem by saying it really only happens in a browser or on the desktop, and it doesn't happen in a performance or a professional application as frequently, if at all. This is exactly how I think I should be describing it.

Dude, I knew it was a good idea to come back to OCN to ask. Hahaha damn OCN kicks ass.
 
1. Yes. I said so in my original post.
2. Yes. I said so in my original post.
You just said you want back to windows 10, I didn't know if it was a clean install or an image restore. I also thought I read that you tried your old card when you were having the power problem, but I don't recall reading that you tried it again after you started having this graphics issue.
Of course, the post is so long I don't want to read it all a second time.
 
Like I said, I never have enough time to take a photo. I'd have to sit here with my phone in my left hand with the camera open while I try to operate my mouse and keyboard with my right hand hoping to somehow reproduce it before my left arm gets tired so that I can have any hope of having enough time to take a photo. A video is out of the question because sometimes it can take hours for this problem to occur.

Regardless though, you made me feel extremely good about this by telling me that you most definitely ran into the same issue with an AMD CPU in Windows 10. That makes me feel great! :) So thank you, thank you, thank you!

You further confirmed it's the same problem by saying it really only happens in a browser or on the desktop, and it doesn't happen in a performance or a professional application as frequently, if at all. This is exactly how I think I should be describing it.

Dude, I knew it was a good idea to come back to OCN to ask. Hahaha damn OCN kicks ass.
If the issue is static, then try. If it's disappears within a second or two, of course. I don't expect you to be Usain Bolt with a camera :)

Yes, that was the main reason I posted. Just to say "Hey, I know what you're talking about. You're not crazy and it's likely NOT faulty hardware".

I don't know if both of our systems experience some level of EMI that causes artifacts. Or if its Windows related. Or BIOS related. Or just AMD compatibility with other software and tools. Until you can really narrow down the scope, you'll probably spend a lot more time and money on different paths. You need a validation on what the heck is happening and unfortunately, I can't validate it.

You know what also kicks ass? ExtremeHW
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
If the issue is static, then try. If it's disappears within a second or two, of course. I don't expect you to be Usain Bolt with a camera :)

Yes, that was the main reason I posted. Just to say "Hey, I know what you're talking about. You're not crazy and it's likely NOT faulty hardware".

I don't know if both of our systems experience some level of EMI that causes artifacts. Or if its Windows related. Or BIOS related. Or just AMD compatibility with other software and tools. Until you can really narrow down the scope, you'll probably spend a lot more time and money on different paths. You need a validation on what the heck is happening and unfortunately, I can't validate it.

You know what also kicks ass? ExtremeHW
I kinda think it's Windows-related. I tried Windows 11 when it was released and none of these problems happened there. Unfortunately, I lost my patience with Windows 11 so I went back to Windows 10 which brought these problems back (not saying it's definitely Windows-related because of that though). Today though it looks like everything that tested my patience can be eliminated fairly easily. Plus, I have this problem too: I mostly just want to see if others are experiencing... So I want to see if Windows 10 is the culprit. Actually, I think I'm going to test a fresh installation of Windows 10 first because if that solves the problem, then I won't have to deal with Windows 11. If not, then I'll see what happens in Windows 11. If that doesn't make any difference, then I'll know that problem I have with Amazon Prime Video for Windows is on Amazon's end and then I'll also be at rest knowing I'll never have to see these artifacts ever again, unless Windows 11 is now the same as Windows 10 with whatever makes these artifacts show up. Or hell, maybe making Windows 11 look and feel like Windows 10 as much as possible might make these artifacts show up since a lot of what I'll be doing will be making use of the old Windows 10 code that's still present in Windows 11.

Fortunately my new monitor has minimized this problem so much that I'm almost forgetting I have it. I also turned off hardware acceleration in Firefox which seems to have completely eliminated the Firefox artifacts altogether. It also seems to have solved another annoyance with Firefox: trying to open closed tabs using the tab context menu no longer opens the wrong thing, such as a new window and to the wrong site. It might be too early to tell on that one though, but still, so far it's been working well.

So as soon as I feel up to it, I'll go ahead and get started on the fresh install of Windows 10 and/or 11 to see how that goes.
 
Your post is way too long so I will ask very specific questions. Did you updated every possible driver on your system and installed all possible update?

In more detail?

-Every applicable drivers from your mb website?
-Every applicable peripheral drivers? (Monitor, mouse, keyboard, …)
-Video card drivers, WHQL drivers?
-Every possible windows update and optionnal update?
-Disable all overclock (cpu, memory and videocard)?
-Fully resetted bios to default config and a full reinstall of Windows?
-Is it a licensed copy of Windows?
-Was the usb boot key created with the official usb key maker from Microsoft?

please answer with a yes or no without (yes but almost, …)

Reason being, I used to be support analyst level 3 back in the days. If you answered any questions with no, I would instruct you to do so and I wouldn’t be able to escalate your ticket to the hardware/software (msft, amd, intel, …)

Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Your post is way too long so I will ask very specific questions. Did you updated every possible driver on your system and installed all possible update?

In more detail?

-Every applicable drivers from your mb website?
-Every applicable peripheral drivers? (Monitor, mouse, keyboard, …)
-Video card drivers, WHQL drivers?
-Every possible windows update and optionnal update?
-Disable all overclock (cpu, memory and videocard)?
-Fully resetted bios to default config and a full reinstall of Windows?
-Is it a licensed copy of Windows?
-Was the usb boot key created with the official usb key maker from Microsoft?

please answer with a yes or no without (yes but almost, …)

Reason being, I used to be support analyst level 3 back in the days. If you answered any questions with no, I would instruct you to do so and I wouldn’t be able to escalate your ticket to the hardware/software (msft, amd, intel, …)

Thanks
Yes to all 8 of your questions. 🙄 If the solution were so simple, then I would've solved it very easily.
 
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