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9900K Bad memory controller or just aging gracefully?

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davidm71

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi,

One my Gigabyte Master Z390 9900K rig I have 32 gb of GSkill 4x8gb 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 kit and for a while I ran it like at 4000mhz at 1.42v with 1.2/1.24 vccio/sa volts and it seemed stable but one day I upgrade the bios to the F11 last release and lost all stability. So I dialed it down to stock 3600mhz at 4.8ghz overclock @ 1.32 volts and failed memory testing left and right at previous 1.18/1.25 io/sa volts @ 1.35 stock ddr4 volts. So I turned on XMP and the bios jacked up the io/sa volts to 1.265/1.32 volts. So instead I set my timings to 16-16-16-36 at Rtts to 60/60/120/120/40/40 and now am stable at 1.24/1.28 volts. So wonder has my mem controller gone to the dogs or what?

Thanks
 
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#2 ·
FYI, my 9900K won't run 4x8GB 3600 with less than 1.45v memory voltage. I guess it comes down to VDDIO, as my motherboard doesn't have separated VDDIO adjustment. I have to jack up memory voltage all together.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
lostking said:
FYI, my 9900K won't run 4x8GB 3600 with less than 1.45v memory voltage. I guess it comes down to VDDIO, as my motherboard doesn't have separated VDDIO adjustment. I have to jack up memory voltage all together.
Click to expand...
Yeah but can you see what your Vccio + SA volts are in HWinfo?
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
Maybe you need to lax your timings further and raise io sa volts and mem training volts.
 
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#6 ·
davidm71 said:
Hi,

One my Gigabyte Master Z390 9900K rig I have 32 gb of GSkill 4x8gb 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 kit and for a while I ran it like at 4000mhz at 1.42v with 1.2/1.24 vccio/sa volts and it seemed stable but one day I upgrade the bios to the F11 last release and lost all stability. So I dialed it down to stock 3600mhz at 4.8ghz overclock @ 1.32 volts and failed memory testing left and right at previous 1.18/1.25 io/sa volts @ 1.35 stock ddr4 volts. So I turned on XMP and the bios jacked up the io/sa volts to 1.265/1.32 volts. So instead I set my timings to 16-16-16-36 at Rtts to 60/60/120/120/40/40 and now am stable at 1.24/1.28 volts. So wonder has my mem controller gone to the dogs or what?

Thanks
Click to expand...
BIOS update sometimes changes the sub timings of RAM.

Just revert back to the previous BIOS version.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
raclimja said:
BIOS update sometimes changes the sub timings of RAM.

Just revert back to the previous BIOS version.
Click to expand...
Think that going backwards to previous version was restricted. Sure there is certainly a way to force flash but no patience for it anymore.
 
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#8 ·
I would just nut up and do it, it's definitely just because your bios update, sometimes bios updates nuke mem performance. I never update my bios unless I absolutely have to, it rarely benefits you. Unless there's a new CPU or ram compatibility update that you need.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Curious if the F11 bios causing issues like this has happened to other Master Z390 owners.
 
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#10 ·
davidm71 said:
Curious if the F11 bios causing issues like this has happened to other Master Z390 owners.
Click to expand...
All I can say is it is very likely the bios change has affected your memory overclock.

I've experienced this on X570 and now with my Z690 classified. Each bios affects voltages required and memory stability.
 
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Discussion starter · #12 ·
andrejbekcic91 said:
Z390k, z9900 4.9 (4c 50; 8c 49), 4133 16c
1.25v under occt small
Bios settings below. Going into year 5. Latest official bios. View attachment 2625915
View attachment 2625916
View attachment 2625906
View attachment 2625912
View attachment 2625910
View attachment 2625913
View attachment 2625914
View attachment 2625917
View attachment 2625911
View attachment 2625909
View attachment 2625907
View attachment 2625908
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing your settings! Are you running an adaptive cpu overclock? C-States all enabled? Confused about the 4c 50 8c 49 settings. Also have you tried setting mem ref clock to 133? I heard its more stable. Also your Dram term voltage seems low. Heard it should be half of DRAM volts. Thanks.
 
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#13 ·
davidm71 said:
Thanks for sharing your settings! Are you running an adaptive cpu overclock? C-States all enabled? Confused about the 4c 50 8c 49 settings. Also have you tried setting mem ref clock to 133? I heard its more stable. Also your Dram term voltage seems low. Heard it should be half of DRAM volts. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Cstates all enabled but ult performance in windows.
4ç - 8c is the tubo ratios from the last image (that one is old so it's 6c - 8c)
Ref clock didn't make a difference for me.
Term voltage is auto, 0.73-0.75 in windows
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
andrejbekcic91 said:
Cstates all enabled but ult performance in windows.
4ç - 8c is the tubo ratios from the last image (that one is old so it's 6c - 8c)
Ref clock didn't make a difference for me.
Term voltage is auto, 0.73-0.75 in windows
Click to expand...
ult performance?
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
Also why is your training voltage higher than standard ddr4 volts? I thought it was the other way around. And what kind of mem kit are you running? Is 4133 the xmp rated speed or you overclocked it up?

Fwiw I have stability with a cas 15 rated 3600mhz kit at cas 16. Apparently the amount of auto IO SA voltage for cas 15 was beyond my comfort level at 1.26/1.32 volts.

So now at cas 16 3600 at 1.22/1.26 volts. Could go lower probably.
 
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#16 ·
Ult performance power profile in windows.

My bios setup is a result of two years of reading the z390 master thread here (thanks @Falkentyne). It allows the cpu full voltage range, rather than forcing a high llc (1.45v peak captured by hwinfo, while sitting on 1.2-1.25 under occt small)

www.gskill.com

F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR-(EOL) - Overview - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Featuring the award-winning Trident Z heatspreader design, the Trident Z RGB memory series combines vivid RGB lighting with awesome DDR4 DRAM performance.
www.gskill.com www.gskill.com
As you can see from the bios pics it's complete manual timings, which is probably the reason I don't have issues with different bios versions. Regarding sa/io I looked up max safe and just put it. Finally (again from the bios pics) training voltage is lower (1.45) vs dram (1.5)
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
andrejbekcic91 said:
Ult performance power profile in windows.

My bios setup is a result of two years of reading the z390 master thread here (thanks @Falkentyne). It allows the cpu full voltage range, rather than forcing a high llc (1.45v peak captured by hwinfo, while sitting on 1.2-1.25 under occt small)

www.gskill.com

F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR-(EOL) - Overview - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Featuring the award-winning Trident Z heatspreader design, the Trident Z RGB memory series combines vivid RGB lighting with awesome DDR4 DRAM performance.
www.gskill.com www.gskill.com
As you can see from the bios pics it's complete manual timings, which is probably the reason I don't have issues with different bios versions. Regarding sa/io I looked up max safe and just put it. Finally (again from the bios pics) training voltage is lower (1.45) vs dram (1.5)
Click to expand...
Total respect for Falkytene. Read few of his posts as well but way over my head sometimes. Anyhow heard that this board messes up the primary timings if you dont put in 2nd and 3rd timings in manually. Will try out or adapt your settings to my setup. Thanks for sharing.
 
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#18 ·
davidm71 said:
Total respect for Falkytene. Read few of his posts as well but way over my head sometimes. Anyhow heard that this board messes up the primary timings if you dont put in 2nd and 3rd timings in manually. Will try out or adapt your settings to my setup. Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...
Maybe try my secondaries and the below but with your primaries and speed (if you can put a fan over the ram maybe up the dram voltage)

Tbh, I'm not going to be of much help in the timings department. I got these from another user that had the same sticks.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
andrejbekcic91 said:
Maybe try my secondaries and the below but with your primaries and speed (if you can put a fan over the ram maybe up the dram voltage)

Tbh, I'm not going to be of much help in the timings department. I got these from another user that had the same sticks.
Click to expand...
Well I have these modules:
www.gskill.com

F4-3600C15D-16GTZ-(EOL) - Overview - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Building on the strong success of G.SKILL Trident series, Trident Z series represents one of the world’s highest performance DDR4 DRAM memory designed for overclocking enthusiasts and extreme gamers.
www.gskill.com www.gskill.com

And they weren't a match set of four but two separate kits I combined together. Wonder if that makes a difference? And they do have active cooling in the form of three 40mm fans strung together.

Anyhow I was going to just plug in the 2nd and 3rd timings that are displayed in the ch A + B list. Think theyre Samsung B dies. Thats what Typhoon says anyhow. If only I could get the advertised primary timings to work. Cas 16-16-16-36 best I can do. Maybe the F11 bios is making the 2nd 3rd timings too tight.

Will try yours out your timings though.

Thanks

Thanks
 
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Discussion starter · #20 · (Edited)
andrejbekcic91 said:
Z390k, z9900 4.9 (4c 50; 8c 49), 4133 16c
1.25v under occt small
Bios settings below. Going into year 5. Latest official bios. View attachment 2625915
View attachment 2625916
View attachment 2625906
View attachment 2625912
View attachment 2625910
View attachment 2625913
View attachment 2625914
View attachment 2625917
View attachment 2625911
View attachment 2625909
View attachment 2625907
View attachment 2625908
Click to expand...


So I put your settings and core ratios in at 50-50-50-50-50-50-49-49 and HWinfo is reporting that all the cores are in between 46-49 with them and especially with Prime95 load all of them are set to 47-47-47-47-47-47-47-46 (last core never goes beyond 46x). Maybe its because I have a negative AVX offset of 2? Sometimes for a second all of them hit 49 but never 50x. Though have AVX off in Prime95 v26.6. The cpu volts average 1.25 under load with max of 1.356 volts. Average Prime95 temps max out after 5 minutes at 71,66,73,71,74,70,69,66 degrees.

Is this normal? I mean if I play a game will the ratio's go up to 50x or its just not going to happen when you go green.

Also have my memory mostly set to Auto for all sub timings because how do I know your settings are going to work for me? I mean my kit is a 15-15-15-35 rated 3600mhz 1.35 kit and I have to set it at 16-16-16-36 for stable operation.

Thanks

Edit: It was the AVX offset affecting cores. Now all cores get set to 50x and down clock randomly. The last core is also 50x. Reporting 46x on last core was an error on my part as in HWinfo the Uncore Ratio appears directly under all the core ratios. Memory Testing now and all cores are at 49x.
 
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