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Discussion starter · #42 · (Edited)
As a piece of rookie advice, just know that memory overclocking doesn't contribute a significant amount of performance to the entire build.
A +1,000 MHz increase in memory frequency with tight timings might only translate to around +100 to +200 MHz on the CPU cores, at best.

So from a value proposition, it really just isn't there. Buying high-end motherboards strictly for memory overclocking is also strictly for enthusiasts only.
You'll find yourself investing hundreds of dollars just for a ~5% improvement in performance, if even that.
Thanks for the explanation, I am not trying to go crazy by any means and essentially just want to run the fastest ram the board and cpu are capable of running with XMP. Just want to get the best performance package without having issues with stability, not trying to set any records just want the best gaming performance out of the rig. I don't mind spending the $ if I can justify it but if alittle extra memory overclocking is really the only benefit of spending $300-$700 on another board it doesn't make much sense. I guess I was more concerned with the CPU overclocking stability with my board compared to something higher end with more VRM's like a Asus Strix, Asrock Nova, MSI Carbon, Gigabyte Aorus master X etc.

So would jumping from 2x16gb 6400mhz cl32 ram to 2x24gb 7200mhz or 7600mhz be worth the speed increase with the slightly higher latency? Maybe a few percent performance increase? It's interesting that only one brand is showing as validated for my current board at 7600mhz being team force 2x24gb. I guess trying another brand like g skill would be rolling the dice?
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
While that might be true, I'm sure the extra speed of a gen 5 drive is even less impactful.

You could do what I have and use Raid 0 on gen 4 drives, 13k read speeds, no loss of PCI-E lanes.

According to this, even at 4K you lose 2% performance running a 4090 at 8x instead of 16x, so you need to consider if you would actually get more than that from a gen 5 drive, IMO I don't think you would:

Yeah, thats really good info. So really the gen 5 ssd slot is pointless when looking at another board so I am really just looking at alittle extra ram speed and maybe alittle better CPU overclocking?
 
ASUS realized early on that two DIMMs would be the way to go for these chips, and thus dedicated their top-end board to that. Although the Z690 Apex was a disaster, they quickly put a lid onto that and rectified it with the Z790 Apex, pouring all of their R&D into the memory overclocking since overclocking the CPU was simple enough already. The Apex and Encore refresh can both hit 9,000 MHz so long as the CPU and RAM are willing. Considering that ASUS was the first to hit 8,000+ MHz consistently and dominated that space for months, it's only natural that they have the most exposure and reputation for it.

EVGA followed suit and did a fairly decent job across the board, but eventually just fell into obscurity, likely due to EVGA as a whole winding down operations after the GPU mess. Both their Z690 and Z790 EVGA Dark boards have achieved 8,000 MHz so far, but again, low adoption = low recognition.

MSI did incredibly well with their Z690 line, with the Unify-X being a legendary budget board that competes with the Apex, but suddenly took a 180-degree turn with Z790 thinking that going with four DIMMs on their top-end boards would've be better for some reason. This presumably caused them to lose money on their boards and convince them not to care so much about the rest of this generation. Oddly enough, their Z790i Edge ITX board can reach 8,000+ MHz, which is one of their saving graces.

ASRock has held a strange position the entire time, where they were quietly doing their own thing and producing niche boards, focusing on price, aesthetics and features. Some of the boards they pushed out has had good results, but there has certainly not been enough hearsay to become the talk of the town. Their brand new Nova and Riptide should be an amazing competitor to the Apex though, at half the price. Definitely a needed alternative, with all other boards focused on memory overclocking being too expensive at this time.

Gigabyte has just been garbage from the very beginning of Z690 and has barely improved. They just focus on price and features that are appealing to normies and not overclockers. They claim with their newest top-end that it can hit 8,000+ MHz, but I'd take that with a grain of salt. If you're just looking for a cheap budget board that works, I guess you can go with them. But any bit of overclocking on the table, and they're just not the way to go. Especially now that ASRock pushed out their newest boards.

As an overall note, none of these manufacturers have put in much effort with four DIMM configurations. MSI did incredibly well with their DDR4 quad-DIMM boards, but it doesn't seem like that same performance has translated over to their DDR5 boards. Or maybe DDR5 just works differently, so we shouldn't be comparing apples and oranges. There isn't really much of an incentive to improve overclocking on the second channel now that 2x24 GB RAM is becoming standard and is more than enough for 80% of the consumer population. Even 2x32 GB RAM seems to overclock better than 4x16 GB.
One of the best explanations i ever seen a while.

Unify-X still going strong if the board is not “ plagued with weak chA slot “

We just need better bios for it. And apparently I cannot reach MSI BIOS team and stuck on brain dead clueless msi customer support agent which is linking me qvl and memory list 💀💀
 
Thanks for the explanation, I am not trying to go crazy by any means and essentially just want to run the fastest ram the board and cpu are capable of running with XMP. Just want to get the best performance package without having issues with stability, not trying to set any records just want the best gaming performance out of the rig. I don't mind spending the $ if I can justify it but if alittle extra memory overclocking is really the only benefit of spending $300-$700 on another board it doesn't make much sense. I guess I was more concerned with the CPU overclocking stability with my board compared to something higher end with more VRM's like a Asus Strix, Asrock Nova, MSI Carbon, Gigabyte Aorus master X etc.

So would jumping from 2x16gb 6400mhz cl32 ram to 2x24gb 7200mhz or 7600mhz be worth the speed increase with the slightly higher latency? Maybe a few percent performance increase? It's interesting that only one brand is showing as validated for my current board at 7600mhz being team force 2x24gb. I guess trying another brand like g skill would be rolling the dice?
I'd personally only make that upgrade if I needed more memory, not more performance. But it all depends on the $$$.
One of the best explanations i ever seen a while.

Unify-X still going strong if the board is not “ plagued with weak chA slot “

We just need better bios for it. And apparently I cannot reach MSI BIOS team and stuck on brain dead clueless msi customer support agent which is linking me qvl and memory list 💀💀
Yeah, MSI has largely just written off this generation. Poor business decisions. And unlike ASUS, they've taken a closed-doors approach to taking in user feedback.
 
I would like 64 Gb, but the options for that are bad. The 2x24 m die stuff is the best thing to buy right now if you don't already have ram and are building a new PC.

The first 2x16 DDR4 were 2133-2666 XMPs with DR, and those came after 8 Gb modules were 3600 for normal kits, 3733 CL14 for pre binned expensive kits, I had a micron 2666 2x16 kit first that went up to 3000CL14, which compared to 3733CL14 8 Gb sticks wasn't all that great, but then right after that the Micron E rev and Samsung B die 2x16 3200 kitts launched and those could also do 3733CL14 and beyond.

4000+ XMP kits came after that, I waited for EOL sales on the 4400 2x16 kits and picked the Micron B rev because B die never went on sale.

Second hand micron B rev 2x16 4400 remains rare and still sells for ÂŁ250+ because of people wanting it for 4x16, not worth wasting money on and 4 slot DDR4 still can be difficult to OC and require binning multiple boards.

2x32 B rev 3600 can get to 4400CL16, but again not guaranteed but a few people on this forum run that in G1.

I bought micron over B die for the same reason as holding out on DDR5, the extra cost on B die wasnt worth the 1% improvement. 2x16 3200 E rev ÂŁ150, B die ÂŁ320 and such.

DDR5 will go up to 2x32 SR and 2x64 DR, it just takes a while for the densities to double each gen, and for the boards to get good with higher capacity modules. I'll wait for 2x32 SR to get decent which should hopefully happen around Intel 16th gen.

Also this 4400 2x16 Micron Rev B, people can complain all they want that its not as good as B die - bought for ÂŁ180 4-5 years ago and still flippable for ÂŁ250 lol. But I'm gonna be keeping it and my 10900K.
 
Thanks for the explanation, I am not trying to go crazy by any means and essentially just want to run the fastest ram the board and cpu are capable of running with XMP. Just want to get the best performance package without having issues with stability, not trying to set any records just want the best gaming performance out of the rig. I don't mind spending the $ if I can justify it but if alittle extra memory overclocking is really the only benefit of spending $300-$700 on another board it doesn't make much sense. I guess I was more concerned with the CPU overclocking stability with my board compared to something higher end with more VRM's like a Asus Strix, Asrock Nova, MSI Carbon, Gigabyte Aorus master X etc.

So would jumping from 2x16gb 6400mhz cl32 ram to 2x24gb 7200mhz or 7600mhz be worth the speed increase with the slightly higher latency? Maybe a few percent performance increase? It's interesting that only one brand is showing as validated for my current board at 7600mhz being team force 2x24gb. I guess trying another brand like g skill would be rolling the dice?
Your mainboard will be the main limitation on ram oc but it is more than capable of juicing 400w+ horny cpu's.
The gain on cpu oc from an elite ax to an apex was literally none. same ratios achieved, same power draw with different vcore readings (socket/die sense). Both able to push a cpu as far as it could run daily.
 
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Do you honestly even need anymore than the standard 16+1 VRM setup for overclocking raptor lake CPUs?

And then again you need water cooling to be able to do so anyway.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
Your mainboard will be the main limitation on ram oc but it is more than capable of juicing 400w+ horny cpu's.
The gain on cpu oc from an elite ax to an apex was literally none. same ratios achieved, same power draw with different vcore readings (socket/die sense). Both able to push a cpu as far as it could run daily.

That's really good to know that atleast on the CPU side there is basically no difference for overclocking as I wasn't sure if the added VRM's would help with stability or whatnot.

That Asrock Nova board seems to be the best deal out for a 4 dimm board. If I didn't already have a motherboard/ram that's close to the same performance I would certainly pick one of those up and some 8000mhz ram. If I decide to want to tinker with memory overclocking some more I'll pick one of those up with some 2x24gb 8000mhz ram. Really with the Nova board being around $300 and 2x24gb 8000mhz ram being around $280 that's an amazing package deal for under $600.
 
That's really good to know that atleast on the CPU side there is basically no difference for overclocking as I wasn't sure if the added VRM's would help with stability or whatnot.

That Asrock Nova board seems to be the best deal out for a 4 dimm board. If I didn't already have a motherboard/ram that's close to the same performance I would certainly pick one of those up and some 8000mhz ram. If I decide to want to tinker with memory overclocking some more I'll pick one of those up with some 2x24gb 8000mhz ram. Really with the Nova board being around $300 and 2x24gb 8000mhz ram being around $280 that's an amazing package deal for under $600.
Eh given that you already have a motherboard and ram, spending even that much just for faster ram is never a 'good deal'.

I do assume you already have a 4090, if not you would be better with one of those first.

Ram is the last thing worth wasting that much money on, the only purpose it serves is for enthusiasts to post bigger numbers.

The only issue so much is for all the users who jumped ship to DDR5 as soon as it launched, they now need to constantly get new motherboards and ram kits just to chase an imperceptible higher ram OC.

Its entirely pointless to waste money on overclocking ram, even more so when the only valid move for ram OCs is currently the overpriced Asus Apex. Everyone else that doesn't want to buy that board and just chase XMP DDR5 speeds on weaker ones all simply would have been even better off sticking to DDR4 if the cost was ever any issue.

On the one hand people say the Asus Apex is too expensive. Its ridiculous to pay such a premium on overclocking compared to overclocking on cheaper parts. On the other hand they discredit DDR4 as now being obsolete because DDR5 is out, and think that everyone should just move onto DDR5 regardless of the endless early adopter issues that they decide to just put up with.

IMO its a hypocrisy to simultaneously be upgrading to a DDR5 system whilst also claiming to be on a budget or looking to save money. I and many others here already wasted enough effort explaining how to shop EOL ram sales to get a brilliant deal on high end ram and such, which is no longer relevant now, but you have be on a constant lookout for such deals and know to shop around when new things are launched.

Also thinking more about the thread title / question - The best 4 dimm slot board to overclock a 14900K is a DDR4 board.
 
That's really good to know that atleast on the CPU side there is basically no difference for overclocking as I wasn't sure if the added VRM's would help with stability or whatnot.

That Asrock Nova board seems to be the best deal out for a 4 dimm board. If I didn't already have a motherboard/ram that's close to the same performance I would certainly pick one of those up and some 8000mhz ram. If I decide to want to tinker with memory overclocking some more I'll pick one of those up with some 2x24gb 8000mhz ram. Really with the Nova board being around $300 and 2x24gb 8000mhz ram being around $280 that's an amazing package deal for under $600.
Sounds like a solid plan. May want to get up with the Nova users on their thread as to what ram though. Not sure if 2x24 8000 is quite there yet.
 
Less than 1% success rate of 8000 DDR5 on any of these 4 slot boards claiming to support 8000 DDR5.

There already is an Asus board that also claims 8000 Mhz on a 4 slot board, no idea why that one never gets mentioned.

Its the exact same case for both, neither will actually get to 8000 Mhz DDR5 except for in very few cases, and the results on this forum prove that. And everyone is quick to blame the CPU IMC as the cause for that when they haven't tested the board in gear 4, and simply settle for 7600-7800 and leave it as opposed to returning the faulty board.

Alternative method to test is to actually buy an 8000 XMP kit and try to activate it on such boards. XMP will automatically set higher gear modes if necessary, at least it does for DDR4. If still in doubt, set gear 4 manually and everything else auto for 8000 XMP. 99/100 times or even more the system will not work even if the motherboard claims support for 8000 memory.
 
Eh given that you already have a motherboard and ram, spending even that much just for faster ram is never a 'good deal'.

I do assume you already have a 4090, if not you would be better with one of those first.

Ram is the last thing worth wasting that much money on, the only purpose it serves is for enthusiasts to post bigger numbers.

The only issue so much is for all the users who jumped ship to DDR5 as soon as it launched, they now need to constantly get new motherboards and ram kits just to chase an imperceptible higher ram OC.

Its entirely pointless to waste money on overclocking ram, even more so when the only valid move for ram OCs is currently the overpriced Asus Apex. Everyone else that doesn't want to buy that board and just chase XMP DDR5 speeds on weaker ones all simply would have been even better off sticking to DDR4 if the cost was ever any issue.

On the one hand people say the Asus Apex is too expensive. Its ridiculous to pay such a premium on overclocking compared to overclocking on cheaper parts. On the other hand they discredit DDR4 as now being obsolete because DDR5 is out, and think that everyone should just move onto DDR5 regardless of the endless early adopter issues that they decide to just put up with.

IMO its a hypocrisy to simultaneously be upgrading to a DDR5 system whilst also claiming to be on a budget or looking to save money. I and many others here already wasted enough effort explaining how to shop EOL ram sales to get a brilliant deal on high end ram and such, which is no longer relevant now, but you have be on a constant lookout for such deals and know to shop around when new things are launched.

Also thinking more about the thread title / question - The best 4 dimm slot board to overclock a 14900K is a DDR4 board.
Or the Z790i MSI Edge ITX, the only other cheap board that can hit 8,000+ MHz right now xP
 
Or the Z790i MSI Edge ITX, the only other cheap board that can hit 8,000+ MHz right now xP
That is exactly what I would have bought if going DDR5, it has 3 x m.2 slots too, but one of them is on Gen 3. The Asus Strix ITX still only has 2 m.2 slots.

I'm using 3 x gen 4 drives now, and getting that maintained on ITX makes it unfeasable now. Before I ran 2 m.2s for gaming drives, and a regular sata drive for OS.

With 2 gen 4 slots I would need a single 8 Tb drive instead, not only do they cost a lot, but on my MAG I also have raid 0 on 2x4 Tb drives, and an OS m.2 drive.

ITX is becoming irrelevant now because of shortage of m.2 slots.
 
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That's really good to know that atleast on the CPU side there is basically no difference for overclocking as I wasn't sure if the added VRM's would help with stability or whatnot.

That Asrock Nova board seems to be the best deal out for a 4 dimm board. If I didn't already have a motherboard/ram that's close to the same performance I would certainly pick one of those up and some 8000mhz ram. If I decide to want to tinker with memory overclocking some more I'll pick one of those up with some 2x24gb 8000mhz ram. Really with the Nova board being around $300 and 2x24gb 8000mhz ram being around $280 that's an amazing package deal for under $600.
If you are planning on switching cpu and memory, you can quickly check what can be done with the Elite. Depending on the chip, I guess 7400 stable is realistic without too much headaches.
From my side, considering the price of the mainboard, I was more than satisfied. (and got lucky at 7800 with a crappy chip let's be honest)

I tried myself as well as what the feedback shows on the web, 8000 on the elite will allow Aida at most and just boot at 8200.


Big Oooof:

This is where we are, 14th gen is overall a sloppy refresh but we can easily state that mainboard refreshes as well are just a robbery.
 
The number of DDR5 boards and even CPUs people are going through just to try and even get 7800 DDR5, when they could have just gotten 1 DDR4 board and ran 4200+ G1 Samsung B die or Micron / Hynix DJR.

Or they could just get the Asus Apex and call it a day.
 
The Apex builds everything from all the SP data and voltage curves off the CPU. If the other board manufactures could get to that.
 
The Apex builds everything from all the SP data and voltage curves off the CPU. If the other board manufactures could get to that.
Gigabyte biscuits is the real future. :ROFLMAO:

Jokes apart, I always wanted to know based on what and how those biscuits were determinate
 
Gigabyte biscuits is the real future. :ROFLMAO:

Jokes apart, I always wanted to know based on what and how those biscuits were determinate
Something odd I noticed about Gigabyte. Theres a few reviews that shows their Aurous boards running 8000 DDR5.

Then when average redditor buys that board ..... 'Help, I can't OC to 6000 and even 5600 won't stabilize'.

Cherry picked boards sent to reviewers it looks like.
 
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