Overclock.net banner

Do you have HyperThreading On or Off?

1 - 20 of 285 Posts

Betroz

· Registered
Joined
·
3,291 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
As the title says, do you run your Intel Raptor Lake CPU with HyperThreading On or Off? Here you can vote in the poll and discuss anything that is related to this topic, and post benchmark scores with On vs Off.

As you guys know, Arrow Lake will come without HT, so it could be useful the gather some data before release by testing this on Raptor Lake.
 
HT Off. I don't care about benchmark scores anymore. Games performance is slightly better, tested myself, power usage is way better, temperature way better and PC is overall quieter. Been trying 5.6Ghz lately with HT off at ~1.15v and it only pulls 220w in R23, maxes out under 70c for the hottest core and draws only ~80-120w during games with ~50c which is awesome.
 
I have i9-13900KF and I disabled HT. I did a lot of tests in games and apps.
Enabling HT didn't increase FPS in any game. Sometimes FPS is even lower with HT enabled. Of course I set low resolution for testing to avoid GPU limitation. Generally in games, operating on a larger number of threads, in my case 32 instead of 24, doesn't increase performance. Also some games have a hard limited number of concurrently running threads to 10, 16 or 24.
Performance in apps is another story because I set power limit to 220 W. HT increases performance but also power consumption. When the limit is set, the difference in performance between disabled and enabled HT is low.
Cinebench R23, 34000 vs 36000.
When HT is off CPU can operate at lower voltage about 0.04 V.
 
HT Off. I don't care about benchmark scores anymore. Games performance is slightly better, tested myself, power usage is way better, temperature way better and PC is overall quieter. Been trying 5.6Ghz lately with HT off at ~1.15v and it only pulls 220w in R23, maxes out under 70c for the hottest core and draws only ~80-120w during games with ~50c which is awesome.
Power usage may be lower, but power efficiency is also lower as well. You get less performance-per-watt with hyperthreading off.
 
HT off:

  • Lower required voltage for same clockspeed (so higher clockspeed if aiming for sensible voltages)
  • Better single-core/gaming performance (due to higher clockspeed)
  • Close enough multi-core/benchmark performance (with power/current limits in place).

HT only makes sense to me if you:

  • Don't ever hit a power/current/temp limit, but that requires a custom loop with an 8+16 CPU (For lower core count CPU's I'd leave it on, as you can cool them with an AIO).
  • Spend a lot of time waiting on a workload that benefits from HT over clockspeed, (I don't, my PC is used for programming/gaming, both of which prefer clockspeed for me).
 
HT off:

  • Lower required voltage for same clockspeed (so higher clockspeed if aiming for sensible voltages)
  • Better single-core/gaming performance (due to higher clockspeed)
  • Close enough multi-core/benchmark performance (with power/current limits in place).
Have you tested it with same power draw? Because... HT off means 10-20% less amps, less vdroop, lower temperature and therefor lower stress. Thats why higher clocks are possible.
Now limit your HT on profile to the same (lower) power and amps and you will be surprised. Full load clocks are lower but performance is better, efficiency is better and you can run the same low load clockspeeds as with HT off.

The only downside of HT is that thread sheduling might not utilize physical cores in the best possible way - then you see lower performance in games. Thats a sheduler thing.

But true, if you dont have workloads that utilize more threads than physical cores, HT off makes sense to make sheduling more efficient.
 
@X909 has a valid point though I think. I'm finding that although turning off HT allows quite a bit lower voltage for heavy multithreaded workloads, this reduction is much less for my vMin at 6 Ghz using OCTVB during actual gameplay (lighter loads).
 
I'm currently running a 14900K with HT off. 8+16.
I mostly game and do some music projects through a DAW. With HT off, I was able to easily do +100MHz on the P cores compared to HT on for Cinebench and OCCT with a nice reduction in power and temps. I saw like 320W peak running R23 at 1.270V load with 59/45/49, mostly sitting in the high 200s. Scored like 36000. I don't really have worry about shader compilations pulling crazy power. Not much of a difference in gaming in terms of power draw, which isn't surprising. If a game needs more than the 8 threads from the P cores, it will just go to the e cores.
I am assuming the Windows 10 that I am using is smart enough to put the heavier tasks on the P cores based on the clock speed differences between the core types, because I have zero stuttering issues and performance has been great. I had horrible stuttering in some games with Windows 11, but I seemed to fix that when I unparked the ecores. Too much of the UI changes for Windows 11 annoyed me so I went back lol.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
I was able to easily do +100MHz on the P cores compared to HT on
Yeah but +100 Mhz with HT off is a small improvement compared to up to +15% more performance in Cinebench and other such workloads with HT on. So the argument for HT off has more to do with saving power and lower temps I think - and improving fps in some games that suffer when HT is on. Better frame pacing with HT off maybe?
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: MrFox
Yeah but +100 Mhz with HT off is a small improvement compared to up to +15% more performance in Cinebench and other such workloads with HT on. So the argument for HT off has more to do with saving power and lower temps I think - and improving fps in some games that suffer when HT is on. Better frame pacing with HT off maybe?
Yeah HT off has never been the magic bullet for absolutely every scenario like some people make it out to be, you're still disabling 8 threads and performance in multithread will suffer.
I came from a 12900K with the ecores disabled, so for me I have 8 more threads than before and +700MHz on the P cores so I am happy. If I did lots of rendering I would definitely keep HT on and just lower clocks or put a current/wattage limit on and call it a day.
 
HT off. It's not worth the heat for me, I can much easier clock 100mhz higher with it off and in most games this will bring more performance.
Basically this. I think the schedulers are mature enough to properly leverage HT CPU's. The only benefits I've found with disabling HT is increased clock speeds due to lower temps and power draw. If you're having overheating issues with 13/14 gen HT off is a good idea. If you're not throttling, leaving it on doesn't hurt.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: BINARYGOD
12900KS and 14900KS. HT on, e-cores off.

With HT, I never have to worry or wonder if an application is using the HT threads instead of the P-cores. Acording to all my tests over the years, it doesn't work like that (unlike e-cores).

GTR 1 (AKA GTR: FIA GT Racing Game) is a truly single-threaded game. It cannot gain from / use more than a single thread and is also massively CPU-limited. If you assign the game to only use 1 thread but choose a HT core instead of a physical core, you don't get any performance drop - nothing changes. So the physical core is still doing the work.

I also did many tests with later games like GT Legends, GTR 2, and RFactor 1. These games use evolved versions of the game-engine in GTR 1 but, unlike GTR 1, they make use of up to 2 threads instead of 1. Again, if you assign the game to only 2 threads but choose HT cores instead of physical cores, there is no performance drop - nothing changes. You'd expect a humongous drop in performance since HT's cores only have around 33% the performance of their physical core brothers but, no.

On the other hand, E-cores can create all sorts of performance-affecting issues. I decided to give E-cores another chance when I switched from a 12900KS to a newly setup 14900KS system. I open Cinebench R15 and get ridiculously low scores. I checked it's CPU affinity using Windows task manager and saw it was assigned to all E-cores but no P-cores, what the!!!??? So I assigned all the P-cores to it as well, re-did the test, and it was STILL only using the E-cores. After that, I was like "screw this" and went back to permanently disabling the E-cores.

Some people think Windows/software CPU affinity settings are the "final say" when they are absolutely not. It's clearly much deeper than that.
 
12900KS and 14900KS. HT on, e-cores off.

With HT, I never have to worry or wonder if an application is using the HT threads instead of the P-cores - it doesn't work like that. I've done tons of tests with a particular game that cannot gain from / use more than a single thread and is also massively CPU-limited (GTR 1 AKA GTR: FIA GT Racing Game). If you assign a HT core to the game instead of a physical core, you don't get any performance drop - nothing changes. So the physical core is still doing the work.

I also did many tests with later games like GT Legends, GTR 2, and RFactor 1. These games use evolved versions of the game-engine in GTR 1 and, unlike GTR 1, they make use of up to 2 threads instead of 1. Again, if you set 1 or 2 of the CPU affinity threads to HT'd cores instead of physical cores, nothing changes when there should be a humungous drop in performance since HT's cores only have around 33% the performance of it's physical core brother.

On the other hand, E-cores can create all sorts of performance affecting issues. I forgot to disable e-cores on my newly setup 14900KS system. I open Cinebench R15 and get ridiculously low scores. I checked it's CPU affinity using Windows task manager and saw it was assigned to all E-cores but no P-cores, what the!!!??? So I assigned all the P-cores to it as well, re-did the test, and it was STILL only using the E-cores. After that, I was like "screw this" and went back to permanently disabling the E-cores.

Some people think Windows/software CPU affinity settings are the "final say" when they are absolutely not. It's clearly much deeper than that.
What version of Windows are you on? I've never seen R15/R23/R24 behave that way.
 
Yeah but +100 Mhz with HT off is a small improvement compared to up to +15% more performance in Cinebench and other such workloads with HT on. So the argument for HT off has more to do with saving power and lower temps I think - and improving fps in some games that suffer when HT is on. Better frame pacing with HT off maybe?
HT won't increase performance that much if you have a power limit set. It's only 7%.

PL1 220 W, PL2 220 W, HT off, 2033 pts.
Image


PL1 220 W, PL2 220 W, HT on, 2172 pts.
Image


btw, I have no idea why the CPU temperature is higher when HT is enabled.
 
On the other hand, E-cores can create all sorts of performance-affecting issues. I decided to give E-cores another chance when I switched from a 12900KS to a newly setup 14900KS system. I open Cinebench R15 and get ridiculously low scores. I checked it's CPU affinity using Windows task manager and saw it was assigned to all E-cores but no P-cores, what the!!!??? So I assigned all the P-cores to it as well, re-did the test, and it was STILL only using the E-cores. After that, I was like "screw this" and went back to permanently disabling the E-cores.
Cinebench creates it's own threads and sets affinity programmatically which ignores whatever you configure in task manager. Don't remember implementation details. If there's a way to go around this I don't know other than going into the UEFI and disabling the cores you don't want to test.

Also at least R23 does a good job at prioritizing core selection for performance.
 
On the other hand, E-cores can create all sorts of performance-affecting issues. I decided to give E-cores another chance when I switched from a 12900KS to a newly setup 14900KS system. I open Cinebench R15 and get ridiculously low scores. I checked it's CPU affinity using Windows task manager and saw it was assigned to all E-cores but no P-cores, what the!!!??? So I assigned all the P-cores to it as well, re-did the test, and it was STILL only using the E-cores. After that, I was like "screw this" and went back to permanently disabling the E-cores.

Some people think Windows/software CPU affinity settings are the "final say" when they are absolutely not. It's clearly much deeper than that.
Something is definitely wrong with your Windows.
 
Are the instances that HT off is faster purely faster at same static frequency, or are the chips boosting higher due to lower temps with HT off?
 
1 - 20 of 285 Posts