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Discussion starter · #3 ·
Well from what i read in "modern refridgeration and a/c" (thanks for reccomending it, great book) a compound cooler has 2+ compressors with the discharge of one leading into the suction of another.

This seems to be the design that some people use for their so called "cascades" Although, its not a true cascade with an evap of one unit cooling the condenser of another. Although, it is hardd to see their pictures so im not 100% sure about this. Maybe you can clear things up.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Well i dont know what a serial compression system is, but on page 111 in the book they have a section on "compound refrigeration systems. The design goes something like this.

compressor1>oil seperater>intercooler>compressor2>oil seperater>condenser>liquid reciever>liquid line>TEV>evap>suction line.

Pretty much just a SS with an extra compressor added in for "extremely low pressures".

As the book puts it, "a single compressor would have trouble reaching these pressures" pg111-113.

Any idea what these systems are capable of?
 
Nowhere near as low as cascades.
They also run bad compression ratios.
-60C maybe at the lowest? Although I know some of the CO2 and R23 compressors will do -80C. Of course they'll take a couple HP to do it.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Oh, awesome thanks alot nol.

BTW, are you an HVAC engineer or what?

Why would anyone use a compound cooler is cascades are so much better? (i mean in the real world)

Also, something ive been wondering for a while, why do i never see TEVs or AEV's in SS's? Seems like it would be alot easier than using a cap tube.
 
Let's see...

Quote:
TW, are you an HVAC engineer or what?
Medical student.

Quote:
Why would anyone use a compound cooler is cascades are so much better? (i mean in the real world)
Less moving parts, could be smaller, where the temperature application doesn't necessitate the use of another stage. When one is not talented enough to know how to autocascade, or experienced enough to make it then work.

Quote:
Also, something ive been wondering for a while, why do i never see TEVs or AEV's in SS's? Seems like it would be alot easier than using a cap tube.
Lag time. Captubes adjust VERY quickly to a change in conditions, however, TXV read from a bulb placed after the evaporator. TXV is not good for high density heat loads because of this.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by NoL View Post
Let's see...

Medical student.

Less moving parts, could be smaller, where the temperature application doesn't necessitate the use of another stage. When one is not talented enough to know how to autocascade, or experienced enough to make it then work.

Lag time. Captubes adjust VERY quickly to a change in conditions, however, TXV read from a bulb placed after the evaporator. TXV is not good for high density heat loads because of this.
hehe, why does a medical student know so much about refrigeration?

Aslo, why dont i see ethane being used in ss systems? boiling point=-127f critical temp=90f

Thanks for all the info
 
Boredom? And a challenge
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Ethane is simply too hard to condense in a single stage system.
Take a look here; it would take about ~-10C to ~-20C to condense it at single stage pressures. It makes it a very good cascade (easy cascade versus ethylene) or an even better spike (when you want cold temps but dont need the load capacity so can attempt to condense the r170 or saturate the stream, SLHX or similar), or an even more better (yeah bad grammar, medicine not english here!) autocascade refrigerant.

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Glad to answer your questions.
 
The pressure would still be way to high. To condense ethane (R170) in a 75F room you would need 580 PSI, screw ethylene, would be even more. Even with a compound system, you won't acheive that sort of pressure, nor would a compressor SURVIVE that kind of compression ratio for long.

And ethane would get you -100C maybe in deep vacuum, ethylene maybe -120C. But no load capacity there at all.
 
No such book exists as far as I know.
::shrug::
If you understand the loop, then well, you do it.
There's not many dont's in this business, it's mainly things you MUST do.

Purge
Vacuum
Superheat
Subcooling

Things like that, past that its empirical at best.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Another question man, christmas is coming up and i thought i would treat myself to a nice oxy/acetelyne torch (ive used a pretty crappy one for while) any suggestions to what i should get?

I heard that victor is the best brand to get, but $80 seems a bit cheap based on what others are going for.

http://www.amazon.com/Acetylene-Weld.../dp/B002M1NZV6
 
For the most part the kits are decently cheap, and work okay for our work, but you wouldn't want to braze up a pile of 1" pipe kits without better ($$$) tip sets and what not.

I learned almost entirely from reading and research and a little hands on in the case of brazing and welding. Purging while brazing represents the difference between a system that lives out the week, and one that will function for years to come. The same goes to tuning via superheat instead of just "till it holds".

I've only got Modern Refrigeration as an occasional reference when I have a wierd system behavior and I can't get it running how I'd like. Most of the time "how I'd like" ends up just being "Silly theoretical delusion" but that's that
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Lastly, although that kit may run you $100, the tanks are going to hurt
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That's where it gets expensive. I just purchased an Acetylene Turbo Torch and B tank, there was a pretty penny. But I can't wait to start using that over MAPP/OXY. Light n go, burn burn burn.
 
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