I put my mousepad further away from edge of desk so it forces more of my arm on the table/pad. The less forearm on the table the weaker your motions will be

I aim with both arm and wrist. I change on the fly for what type of shot I'm doing. I generally wrist for small motions and then arm when I need a 180 degree

 

There are so many other factors and combinations that I gave up on thinking about this a while ago and just went with "what's comfortable". For example, the difference of height between chair and table affects how close your elbow lies to your body (higher chair = tighter elbow to body), which affects range of motion, the muscles involved in aiming (it seems to me that with your elbow further away from your body, your biceps and triceps control the motion, while close elbow motion is controlled by deltoid/pecs/rotator cuff), and the amount of arm that lies on the table. Now also you can think about how close your chair is to the table, which affects how far in front or in line with your torso your elbow lies, again leading to the activation of different muscle groups and leading to different ranges of motion. Combine this all with different grips and mice facilitating different positions, and it is just impossible to thoroughly test everything, unless you have every day free and your goal is to go pro.

My suggestion is to play and not think about this too much. Then on a day when your aim is nuts and you feel "on fire", take a second to note down everything about your posture. Chair distance, elbow position, back posture, rotation of the chair, etc. Then recreate this the next time you play and see if this setup was a one off thing or it really makes your aim better.

 

My desk at work. Whole forearm pretty much up to my elbow is on desk. have to turn my qck+ 90 degrees. Gigantus at home is a god send being 45cm by 45cm square. Most comfortable way to play and not get and strain in your wrist is this way right here.

arm.jpg 378k .jpg file

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcd

Firstly, the wrist positioning. There are two possibilities here:
1a. wrist having contact w/ the pad.
1b. wrist not having contact w/ the pad.

...

To sum it up, I'd like to hear how people position their arm/wrist while gaming. It would be helpful to use the numbers I've introduced and possibly the mouse in use for reference.

There is a major factor in whether wrist is stationary on the table/pad or not.

I move my mouse almost purely with fingers (including horizontal movement), wrist being stationary.

 

Wrist above the pad, elbow on level or higher than the wrist when gaming.

 

relaxed shoulders, but right arm (mouse arm) kind of forward and flared out to the right a bit. it's the most relaxed position for me.

for mouse grip I have wrist resting on pad, hand more vertical than horizontal (45degrees kinda?).
fingers are more straight than fingertip/claw, but palm doesn't touch mouse.

ring/pinky are touching side of mouse, but middle, index and thumb are just fingertip.

logitech G Pro if that matters.

 

Strangely enough, I found my sitting solution when I finally tried a standing desk.

I currently use one of those drafting stools that has a huge range of height adjustment with a sit-to-stand desk (not one of the fancy electric ones, I'd have to manually adjust via screws). This pretty much solved most of my "ergonomic" issues. No matter what height the table is at I can adjust my seat so that my arms are at a decent 90-ish degree angle while maintaining a good posture. This is basically when there's about an inch or two of space between my legs and bottom of the table due to my long arms.

From my experience, if your body is in the right position you don't really "need" arm rests, regardless of whether you're pivoting from elbow or wrist. Besides, ideally you want your wrist/forearm to be gliding over the surface not really "resting" with any significant pressure. And think about it, lets go back to the OP...basically, you want to simplify the equation. Wouldn't it be much easier to find the final solution without the need to factor in the arm rest height/ratio, seat-to-table ratio, etc? When standing, it's essentially "ok, what's the optimal height of this table for me?"

If you find that your "range-of-motion/speed/precision/stability" is being compromised, then something is misaligned. You shouldn't feel "held back" doing physical movements at your computer setup that you're otherwise perfectly capable of performing.

 

I think most ppl naturally use arm/ forearm/ wrist/ fingers in order of increasing precision. We are made so large muscle groups with large fulcrums do wide/ powerful tasks and smaller muscle groups do precise/ responsive tasks. I used to plant either wrist or elbow but came to the conclusion that neither will solve the eternal battle between sensitivity and precision. Rresting forearm somewhere between palm/elbow is good. Resting a bit further (toward palming) forward increases precision/decreases mobility and visa versa. In keeping with this, elbow height above desk is critical to resting point so I adjusted chair height. Chair arms can keep you away from the mousing surface/ work area so I removed them. They will also affect said resting height when reclining and mess everything up. Ergomicists recommend removing them anyway in these cases. Ideal would be a surround desk with a body cut-out..

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PU skunk

Ideal would be a surround desk with a body cut-out..

Totally agree with all your points, and this is exactly my thought. Maybe if I'll have some time and money to fabricate stuff I'll do a desk like that hehe.

 

Can you post a photo/link of this stool you speak of
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillion

Strangely enough, I found my sitting solution when I finally tried a standing desk.

I currently use one of those drafting stools that has a huge range of height adjustment with a sit-to-stand desk (not one of the fancy electric ones, I'd have to manually adjust via screws). This pretty much solved most of my "ergonomic" issues. No matter what height the table is at I can adjust my seat so that my arms are at a decent 90-ish degree angle while maintaining a good posture. This is basically when there's about an inch or two of space between my legs and bottom of the table due to my long arms.

From my experience, if your body is in the right position you don't really "need" arm rests, regardless of whether you're pivoting from elbow or wrist. Besides, ideally you want your wrist/forearm to be gliding over the surface not really "resting" with any significant pressure. And think about it, lets go back to the OP...basically, you want to simplify the equation. Wouldn't it be much easier to find the final solution without the need to factor in the arm rest height/ratio, seat-to-table ratio, etc? When standing, it's essentially "ok, what's the optimal height of this table for me?"

If you find that your "range-of-motion/speed/precision/stability" is being compromised, then something is misaligned. You shouldn't feel "held back" doing physical movements at your computer setup that you're otherwise perfectly capable of performing.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by badben25

Can you post a photo/link of this stool you speak of

Just look around for Drafting Chairs, there's just as much variety as with standard chairs. This is the one I settled on for the time being. Wanted something cheap and simple with a decent backrest. Although I'd say the Metro is likely the best bang for buck in the category.

They might not work for everyone's setup, but for a sit-to-stand they're great. Even right now, my table is at a standard-ish 77.5cm and using the chair at it's lowest setting. The adjustable foot rings on these things are great but I'd also recommend some sort of other foot rest if/when you want to place your feet out further in front of you (or just stand

)

 

To add to my post from earlier, I also think it's good to have your mouse/keyboard lower than your general like torso area.. like a desk with A pull out keyboard where the monitor sits higher than the keyboard. Something about being level with the desk feels like less motion. I guess a taller chair could alleviate that too. Actually I think I'm going to get a taller chair with no arm rests so I can sit higher and slide under the desk for comfort

Thanks for the thread, OP. I totally forgot I wasn't comfortable at my new desk cause of my chair. I'm sitting too low. Might be time to invest in one of those fancy racing chairs.. anyone have one? I'll take any recommendations.. I'm 6 feet 3 inches tall so.. keep that in mind! I'll post if I find anything interesting.. or I'll get a lower desk.. lol

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncck

Thanks for the thread, OP. I totally forgot I wasn't comfortable at my new desk cause of my chair. I'm sitting too low. Might be time to invest in one of those fancy racing chairs.. anyone have one? I'll take any recommendations.. I'm 6 feet 3 inches tall so.. keep that in mind! I'll post if I find anything interesting.. or I'll get a lower desk.. lol

I got myself a model from DX Racer 4 or 5 years ago. One of the models "for big boys", since im a 180cm tall man (not some skinny teen). Those chairs are pretty cool because they got all the things you could ever need (real adjustable lumbar support instead of just a pillow etc.) and are less expensive than "real" office chairs (i paid about 400€ for mine - the ones for skinny teens are cheaper but also have less features).

To add to the topic:
I put my mousepad about 20 cm away from the edge of the desk, so my arms rest on the table (i prefer this over using armrests because they are not flexible enough for me) and i kind of press my body against the desk. I prefer to sit a bit lower, i just feel more in control while gaming by doing so.

 

Whatever is sexiest for the given circumstance.

 

Quote:

Ideal would be a surround desk with a body cut-out..

after reading this I tried to improvise.
its pretty ghetto but it works.
I used the sturdiest binder I could find lying around. cut so keep just the front and back covers. placed them flush against each other and duck taped them together along sides.
then I ducked taped it to my desk with about a little over a half sticking out for my arm to rest on.

to keep my mouse pad the same height I just put a place mat that was exact size beneath it.
also put an 8x11 piece of printing paper ontop of the binder to give it a smooth surface with scotch tape.
it bends just a bit where I rest my arm but I've noticed a difference.
the paper also goes beneath mouse pad to create transition at the gap.

 

I use a swopper most of the time.

 

I've been into FPS games since doom and without tooting my own horn, I'm in the top 1℅ of almost anything I play. Resting my wrist on the pad has always made me feel more steady, but now at age 30 I've developed some tendonitis. Being I also use my mouse constantly at, I now keep a proper posture even when gaming which means no resting anything. I'm still adjusting and I can still aim pretty good.

 

If we're talking about FPS gaming, here's what you should do:
1. get a mouse with "flawless" tracking that weighs less than 100 grams (G Pro, G303, G403, most Zowie mice, CM Spawn, Mionix Castor, Nixeus Revel, Roccat Savu, etc.)
2. set your CPI + in-game sensitivity so that it equates 35 cm/360
3. use whatever combination of grip, posture and arm/wrist position feels best at that sensitivity, and practice your aim/tracking with it until you get used to it (could take a few weeks, be patient)
4. once your aim/tracking is decent, keep the mouse or switch to a heavier one if for whatever reason that's what you think is best
5. fine-tune your sensitivity from there, to what you feel is optimal

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

If we're talking about FPS gaming, here's what you should do:
1. get a mouse you're comfortable with
2. maintain proper posture
3. play the game

FTFY

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melan

FTFY

Nope-the Anker 98ANWVM is possibly the most comfortable mouse I've ever held, but using it to play FPS would be a terrible idea. Next time, if you have nothing intelligent to say, don't post.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

Nope-the Anker 98ANWVM is possibly the most comfortable mouse I've ever held, but using it to play FPS would be a terrible idea. Next time, if you have nothing intelligent to say, don't post.

If you were intelligent you'd realize that I've meant a gaming mouse. Don't make me point out all the BS you've written in the previous post as well.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melan

If you were intelligent you'd realize that I've meant a gaming mouse. Don't make me point out all the BS you've written in the previous post as well.

Same principle applies. Some gaming mice are comfortable to some users, but aren't worth **** in terms of tracking and would perform horribly in FPS. You'd pick a comfortable mouse, yes, but within a selection of mice that track reasonably (which is why I listed quite a few of them).

By your rationale a mouse's only worth is how comfortable it is to the user, never mind things like sensor performance, buttons, software, build quality, etc. Why do people even bother making reviews, since none of those matter, right?

I challenge you to point out any "BS" in my post. I'll take your points apart one by one and make you look very dumb, and you already look dumb enough as it is.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

I challenge you to point out any "BS" in my post. I'll take your points apart one by one and make you look very dumb, and you already look dumb enough as it is.

I don't really think he is the one who looks dumb in this moment in time.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

If we're talking about FPS gaming, here's what you should do:
1. get a mouse with "flawless" tracking that weighs less than 100 grams (G Pro, G303, G403, most Zowie mice, CM Spawn, Mionix Castor, Nixeus Revel, Roccat Savu, etc.)

Pick any gaming mouse you're comfortable with. Preferably from known famous brands. Even Logibrick G502 is fine if you're ok with the weight.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

2. set your CPI + in-game sensitivity so that it equates 35 cm/360

Why not 20cm/360? Or 45cm/360? What's so magical about 35cm?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

3. use whatever combination of grip, posture and arm/wrist position feels best at that sensitivity, and practice your aim/tracking with it until you get used to it (could take a few weeks, be patient)

Why the hell they should adapt to your sensitivity from #2? It's also pointless to tell "use whatever grip you like" because they will be already using it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

4. once your aim/tracking is decent, keep the mouse or switch to a heavier one if for whatever reason that's what you think is best

You've been playing for weeks or months using one configuration and then dump it for heavier one. What?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

5. fine-tune your sensitivity from there, to what you feel is optimal

This is something you do WHEN YOU ARE ON THE DAY ONE. Why? Because you'll be using this for months getting used to this so you no longer over/undershoot and overall feel comfortable using in any FPS game. This is done literally within 48 hours of playing the game.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Artifact

By your rationale a mouse's only worth is how comfortable it is to the user, never mind things like sensor performance, buttons, software, build quality, etc. Why do people even bother making reviews, since none of those matter, right?

By your rationale, people should get on the "flawless" circlejerk and use w/e OCN deemed worthy of using. You'll be getting good enough performance even from zowie who's still sitting on 3310. Granted their mice are overpriced for what they offer but if someone's feels right using it, I'm not even going to bother tell them otherwise.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanir1337

Maybe if I'll have some time and money to fabricate stuff I'll do a desk like that

I rigged one up like paprika88, but out of 3/4" insulation foam. It felt really good but a couple minor quibbles kept me from building one. It's slightly harder to get in/out of, the "armrests" add depth in my small space, and end-grain would show up in the cut-out (I prefer round corners over edge banding). Lastly, the cut-out is not absolutely necessary if you sit straight up in that recommended "90 degree elbow-arms-at-your-side" position cited by Maximillion. If you can also lose the arm rests, that position should bring you fairly close to your desk for decent mousing area and arm suppot though it's not as good as a cut-out.

The main problem I'm having with the upright position is my arms keep hitting the back rest when mousing. It gets really annoying unless you have a narrow-back chair like a Herman Miller Embody or Steelcase Gesture. I might go with a cheaper option and buy a narrow backrest pad.

While trying out sit-stand desks, there was this one (smartdesk)



It's a standard 30" in depth so the cut-out might place you too close to the monitor.
The one I rigged needed 40" with my 27" monitor.