[zestyy]

Hi,
I'm having a problem with mice where I find the way I aim most consistently is completely out of line with the ergonomics of the mice I use.

I use a claw/fingertip grip at the very back of the mouse, with my index finger normally directly above the sensor and my thumb below the side button closest to me on most mice I use. The palm of my hand is normally completely off the mouse and my other fingers rest at a similar distance back so that I'm only really gripping the back half of the mouse with the front completely free.

Unfortunately most mice are not designed with this type of grip in mind and have the highest point of the mouse's "hump" at the point where I rest my index finger. This causes unnecessary strain to this finger. I find myself more comfortable when I move my hand forwards on the mouse, but even when playing for several months, aiming like this just feels "off" to me.

I was wondering if there were any decent mice capable of being gripped towards the back, and failing that any mice that have a more forward sensor position as I feel as if having my fingers right at the level of the sensor is what feels best for me. Does anyone grip mice in the same way and have something that works for them?

 

[daniel0731ex]

ZA13

 

[SmashTV]

An instance where the G303 might be handy? I can't picture the grip.

 

[daniel0731ex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashTV

An instance where the G303 might be handy? I can't picture the grip.

No, I tried this style of grip on the G303, it's pure cancer. The side apex is way too forward to get a good grip.

 

[zestyy]

Bumping this with images of my grip so people can understand more easily, basically a very pronounced fingertip/claw grip where none of my palm touches the mouse. Currently I'm using the Roccat EMP as shown here but it's a bit big for me (My hand is actually pretty small, somewhere in the 17cm range I think?)

The most common issues I run into with mice are:
Too much of a hump/slope on the buttons at the point at which I'm pressing mouse1 which has led to issues with my index finger
Issues with curves on the right side sticking out where I would normally want to put my fingers.
Anyone got an idea of mice this grip would work well with?

 

[SmashTV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel0731ex

No, I tried this style of grip on the G303, it's pure cancer. The side apex is way too forward to get a good grip.

But you're not OP and everyone's hands are different.
Quote:

Originally Posted by zestyy

Bumping this with images of my grip so people can understand more easily, basically a very pronounced fingertip/claw grip where none of my palm touches the mouse. Currently I'm using the Roccat EMP as shown here but it's a bit big for me (My hand is actually pretty small, somewhere in the 17cm range I think?)

The most common issues I run into with mice are:
Too much of a hump/slope on the buttons at the point at which I'm pressing mouse1 which has led to issues with my index finger
Issues with curves on the right side sticking out where I would normally want to put my fingers.
Anyone got an idea of mice this grip would work well with?

With issues with slopes are you looking for something ambidextrous? The Revel has a more "forward" sensor position but it's got a stiffer shell. It's somewhat small as well.

Pronounced claw may work with the diamond G303/G302. Not sure though you'd have to see. The Zowie ambi mice might be the ticket as well but they too have stiff shells.

Considering you have your index finger that far back I'd suggest looking for something with separate clicks or better M1/M2.

 

[Vario]

FK2?

 

[zestyy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashTV

But you're not OP and everyone's hands are different.
With issues with slopes are you looking for something ambidextrous? The Revel has a more "forward" sensor position but it's got a stiffer shell. It's somewhat small as well.

Pronounced claw may work with the diamond G303/G302. Not sure though you'd have to see. The Zowie ambi mice might be the ticket as well but they too have stiff shells.

Considering you have your index finger that far back I'd suggest looking for something with separate clicks or better M1/M2.

I didnt like g303/g302 particularly for the sides but I do think ambi mice are often better for the right side as I dont hold ergonomic mice in a normally considered way.

Could you elaborate on the M1/M2 thing, I dont know which mice have "separate clicks" or are considered to have "good" M1/M2

 

[SmashTV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zestyy

I didnt like g303/g302 particularly for the sides but I do think ambi mice are often better for the right side as I dont hold ergonomic mice in a normally considered way.

Could you elaborate on the M1/M2 thing, I dont know which mice have "separate clicks" or are considered to have "good" M1/M2

Usually when you press the main mouse buttons towards the rear it'll be much harder to actuate because of the shell. I find mice with "separate" buttons (i.e. G402, G403, G Pro, etc) easier to click all over as opposed to the uniform ones, exception being the Deathadder I have. That thing clicks lightly anywhere.

And yeah I'd suggest looking at some ambi mice.

 

[daniel0731ex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashTV

But you're not OP and everyone's hands are different.

You're making this argument without providing a single contrary opinion from someone who has used this grip on the G303?

 

[SmashTV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel0731ex

You're making this argument without providing a single contrary opinion from someone who has used this grip on the G303?

I've seen plenty who use it with a more pronounced claw like OP outside this forum. Should I ask them to register and post here? Or should I permanently adjust to using your hands as a measuring stick for other people's compatibility?

It was only a suggestion, and it was replied to by OP. Can do without your pretentious input.

 

[daniel0731ex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashTV

I've seen plenty who use it with a more pronounced claw like OP outside this forum. Should I ask them to register and post here? Or should I permanently adjust to using your hands as a measuring stick for other people's compatibility?

It was only a suggestion, and it was replied to by OP. Can do without your pretentious input.

You may ask them to do so, but clearly you are misinterpreting the OP's grip if you think of every claw grip you have seen to be the same by appearance without consulting them regarding the underlying mechanics. The applicability of my suggestion is further validated by the OP's own statements, so I don't know what you are trying to refute here if not just for the sake of lashing out.

I merely pointed out that you provided no basis for your claim. I am not going to respond to your overreaction, your hypocrisy is apparent for everyone to judge.

 

[daniel0731ex]

Anyways, enough of a digression with pointless argument initiated by someone else's overreaction, regarding the OP's grip, I can honestly say that at this point the OP's best bet is the ZA13.

FK and Revel will not work because of the wide butt that will cause the OP to shift his grip even further back right onto the hump, which is what he wanted to avoid in the first place. Contrary to popular belief, peoples' hand are not so different that the criterion for open-palm grips will noticeably shift the solution space of optimal shapes.

In addition, you generally want stiffer clicks for these grips because unlike palm grip, which has a cantilever like actuation, the finger contacts are more or less normal to the buttons, so the important criteria is actually less about easy actuation of the click than it is about the rebound supporting the fingerweight. Also, generally the clicking fingers are actually a significant part of the movement, unlike palm grip where it is only used for clicking and have little impact on motion, so stiffer clicks will aid in reducing tension in your clicking fingers.

 

[zestyy]

^Thanks for the input, you seem to know whats up as that's exactly what I feel- mice with stiffer clicks tend to be preferable and its the rebound that can cause stiffness and tension in my fingers when I feel like I'm "bottoming out" a much lighter switch. I'll give the ZA series a try though the 13 might be a little small, 12 could be a happy medium.

 

[daniel0731ex]

I'm not so sure if ZA12 is the right choice, as the ZA shapes weren't quite meant to fit your grip per se, the ZA13 is only suitable by coincidence as a result of its size.

 

[SmashTV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel0731ex

You may ask them to do so, but clearly you are misinterpreting the OP's grip if you think of every claw grip you have seen to be the same by appearance without consulting them regarding the underlying mechanics.

No, I didn't. In fact I said it might be. Merely a suggestion. I even asked for pictures to be sure. And yet we nearly came to the same conclusions.

Would rather OP investigate something like a Mionix Avior, to see if it is manageable to that person, before shelling out money and by stranded by wonky wheels, crusty clicks, and buythefirmwareupgrades Zowie. Or even something narrow and flat, like a G402 despite it being an ergo mouse.
Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel0731ex

The applicability of my suggestion is further validated by the OP's own statements, so I don't know what you are trying to refute here if not just for the sake of lashing out.

Drawing up refuting from my suggestions. Ahh, my sides. The pretentiousness is indeed off the charts.

How it went in case you forgot: I suggested maybe a G302/G303 and wasn't sure based on OP, you quoted that saying it didn't work for you why would I suggest it, I said people's hands are different, you asked for user opinions on that suggestion, and I gave you just as snide of a reply back.

No refuting anywhere, but it's there somewhere!

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel0731ex

I merely pointed out that you provided no basis for your claim. I am not going to respond to your overreaction, your hypocrisy is apparent for everyone to judge.

Do I need sources for every suggestion posted on here now? Don't be ridiculous. If I put in some suggestions without footnotes and consulting your hands and you don't like it, you can gladly walk off a cliff in exchange.

 

[Erecshyrinol]

I have a similar, if not identical grip. I don't know how much you use your fingers for navigation as opposed to wrist/arm, so I don't know if you'll share my preferences. I find short mice with small butts to be agreeable. I find big vertical humps (like the one found on the ZA13 that daniel0731ex mentioned) uncomfortable. I generally prefer a narrow grip, but the G100s, MX300/RX250 and everything else from that family has traditionally been a good fit for me, despite the width. I find miniature laptop mice very comfortable as well.

I think daniel0731ex is probably correct in that G303 would not suit you because there would be nowhere to place your pinky other than crammed together with your ring finger. If you like some space between these fingers, you'd have nowhere to put your pinky other than the butt end of the diamond which would obviously be very awkward.

 

[SmashTV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erecshyrinol

I have a similar, if not identical grip. I don't know how much you use your fingers for navigation as opposed to wrist/arm, so I don't know if you'll share my preferences. I find short mice with small butts to be agreeable. I find big vertical humps (like the one found on the ZA13 that daniel0731ex mentioned) uncomfortable. I generally prefer a narrow grip, but the G100s, MX300/RX250 and everything else from that family has traditionally been a good fit for me, despite the width. I find miniature laptop mice very comfortable as well.

I think daniel0731ex is probably correct in that G303 would not suit you because there would be nowhere to place your pinky other than crammed together with your ring finger. If you like some space between these fingers, you'd have nowhere to put your pinky other than the butt end of the diamond which would obviously be very awkward.

Double so. I think he'd prefer something with less a vertical hump. OP has addressed the diamond already so no need.

 

[daniel0731ex]

Aye, the vertical hump is definitely not good for this kind of grip per se.

As I have already mentioned, the ZA13 is the only good option currently present on the market simply by serendipity of its small size keeping the vertical hump completely out of the way of OP's style of grip.

I would definitely not recommend going out of the way to look for this particular shape given this style of grip, it is only this one particular instance where the combination of the size and geometry of the ZA13 happens to work out perfectly for the OP.

As has already been enumerated many times in this thread, the diamond shape is definitely not suitable under any circumstance.

 

[trism]

I don't really see how the hump would be that bad with this grip. ZA12 felt probably the best from the mice I tried and the hump certainly did not restrict the movement at all. Avior does not work at all for me. Then again, hand sizes etc. are different so the best option is to just test how the mice feel.