[pauLoHSMF]

I saw the i9 version of the thread so I thought I'd start the one dedicated to the i7.

So what are your results with this chip? ofcourse, proper results with aida64/rb/p95

msi unify z490 + nzxt x73 = currently sitting at 5.2ghz(48 cache) 1.295v LLC3

i guess it's a good chip, seen a lot of people struggling at higher voltages.

So what about you guys?

 

[SmackHisFace]

Just getting into it. Currently 5.0ghz(44 cache) 1.275v LLC4. I have been crashing in OCCT at 5.1 With as much as 1.31v. Your Chip seems better than mine.

 

[vMax65]

Thanks for getting this thread up and running. Just got the 10700K with the Gigabyte Aorus Ultra. Running the Arctic Freezer II 360mm AIO. Just started overclocking on this board and have an adaptive overclock at 5GHz all core, 47 cache and LLC at Performance with a max VID at 1.336v with a vcore at max 1.345v.
Temps in Cinebench R20 80 degrees and Prime95 non AVX just under 60 degrees.

Prefer adaptive to fixed so a bit more work required to get the vcore down as on the Gigabyte board adaptive seems a bit more complex...Any help on settings appreciated and I will update further on the best I can get...

Just did a bit more tuning and have the max vcore under the adaptive mode down to 1.322v and the max VID at 1.297 stable in both Prime95 and Cinebench R20 with max temp hitting 82 degrees on the hottest core. Fingers crossed should be able to lower the vcore to around a 1.3v or maybe a fraction lower.

 

[Falkentyne]

Thanks for getting this thread up and running. Just got the 10700K with the Gigabyte Aorus Ultra. Running the Arctic Freezer II 360mm AIO. Just started overclocking on this board and have an adaptive overclock at 5GHz all core, 47 cache and LLC at Performance with a max VID at 1.336v with a vcore at max 1.345v.
Temps in Cinebench R20 80 degrees and Prime95 non AVX just under 60 degrees.

Prefer adaptive to fixed so a bit more work required to get the vcore down as on the Gigabyte board adaptive seems a bit more complex...Any help on settings appreciated and I will update further on the best I can get...

LLC "Performance" is NOT a LLC setting!
Please do not confuse LLC (Loadline Calibration) with CPU Internal ACDC Load Line. They are NOT the same and CPU Internal AC DC Load Line affects the CPU's power supply (AC Loadline) when in offset or adaptive modes, not in fixed vcore mode. CPU Internal AC DC Loadline has nothing to do with vcore vdroop.

Vdroop (Loadline calibration) is controlled only by Loadline calibration.

If you want to see your "VR VOUT", use the tool I posted in the Gigabyte z390 thread. You cannot run this tool and hwinfo64 at the same time. VR VOUT functionality will be added to HWinfo64 at a future time.
The Vcore readings in CPU-Z and in HWinfo, etc are NOT accurate. They're okay for idle but way off at load. The tool I posted is accurate to 10mv.

 

[vMax65]

Thanks for the heads up and on the LLC side I should have said 'High' instead of performance! my fault...More importantly, thanks for clarifying as I have to admit the Gigabyte BIOS is a tad confusing...I will use the tool for VR VOUT you have suggested to get an accurate reading...Any other suggestions are always welcomed...

LLC "Performance" is NOT a LLC setting!
Please do not confuse LLC (Loadline Calibration) with CPU Internal ACDC Load Line. They are NOT the same and CPU Internal AC DC Load Line affects the CPU's power supply (AC Loadline) when in offset or adaptive modes, not in fixed vcore mode. CPU Internal AC DC Loadline has nothing to do with vcore vdroop.

Vdroop (Loadline calibration) is controlled only by Loadline calibration.

If you want to see your "VR VOUT", use the tool I posted in the Gigabyte z390 thread. You cannot run this tool and hwinfo64 at the same time. VR VOUT functionality will be added to HWinfo64 at a future time.
The Vcore readings in CPU-Z and in HWinfo, etc are NOT accurate. They're okay for idle but way off at load. The tool I posted is accurate to 10mv.

 

[ttnuagmada]

I got a 10700K and MXIIF. I delided it it and threw it in my custom loop. I'm coming from a 3770K and MVF so I basically feel like I have no clue what I'm doing on these new platforms.

Quick question: in terms of what is "safe", am I worried about the set voltage or the load voltage? IE: is setting 1.4v safe if the load is closer to 1.3v? (using llc4)

 

[Falkentyne]

Thanks for the heads up and on the LLC side I should have said 'High' instead of performance! my fault...More importantly, thanks for clarifying as I have to admit the Gigabyte BIOS is a tad confusing...I will use the tool for VR VOUT you have suggested to get an accurate reading...Any other suggestions are always welcomed...

Yeah if you have any questions just ask, because I have a Z490 Master in front of me, trying to compare two CPU's--note--10900k's not 10700k's, so off topic for this thread (my ES and my retail) that have the same VIDS, up to 5.2 ghz, where the retail chip takes a crap (25mv higher VID at 5.2 ghz, plus i'm using air cooling on that open bench setup) which makes 5.2 VERY hard to stabilize (The ES, with a 360 AIO, can do 5.2 (and is game stable at 5.3) but I run out of temp headroom in Realbench 2.56 at 5.2 ghz, >1.250v die-sense (true) load voltage, so the CPU Cache L0 errors start past 90C...).

The tool isn't that useful at the moment since it can't be run with other monitoring programs like HWinfo64, but at least you can get your real voltages now, which as you can see are much lower than what the sensors say at full load.

As far as the Presets for "CPU Internal AC DC Load Line", I don't know what the presets are, but I know what they were on the Z390 Master.
I calculated the exact Vcore loadline calibration "resistance" (milliohm) values on Z490 thanks to Shamino's tool, and I assume the relationship between the AC/DC Loadline "presets" and the Loadline calibration levels are still the same.

Vcore Loadline Calibration:
Standard/Normal: 1.1 mOhms
Low: 0.85 mOhms
Medium: .68 mOhms
Hiugh: .55 mOhms
Turbo: .29 mOhms
Extreme: .185 mOhms
Ultra Extreme: 0 mOhm

If the same relationship between the AC presets and LLC values still exist, then the CPU Internal AC DC Load Lines should be:

Extreme: AC: 1.7 mOhm, DC: 1.7 mOhm (Bios values in Internal VR Settings->Core IA VR Enable/Config--> AC Loadline: 170, DC Loadline: 170)
Turbo: AC: 1.1 mOhm, DC: 1.1 mOhm (110/110)
Performance: AC: 0.68 mOhm, DC: 0.85 mOhm (68/85). <--on the Z390 Aorus Master, LLC "Low" was 1.3 mOhms, LLC Medium was 1.0 mOhm, and AC/DC Load Line="Performance" was 1.0 mOhm/1.3 mOhm)
Power Saving: AC: 0.29 mOhm, DC: 0.85 mOhm (29/85).

The raw numbers in parenthesis are the values you would have to enter into the Internal VR Core IA settings. Note that the Internal VR Core IA has higher priority and overrules the "preset" options.

The "AC Loadline" helps the CPU request a supply voltage from the VRM, in Auto vcore, Adaptive and Offset voltage modes (offset mode applies an offset to this). This formula is too complicated for me to explain here. Every time I try, no one ever understands (simple math) and they start asking more questions... :/

DC Loadline is used for "Prediction" of the vdroop (basically it predicts the loadline calibration level if you set it to it) and shows the results as "CPU VID". This is used for power reporting ONLY, not for actual voltage!!

 

[vMax65]

A massive thanks for this information as it will really help me....And appreciate the help especially as you have the Z490 Master with the BIOS being pretty much the same as my Z490 Ultra. I am looking to get a stable 5GHz all core at the lowest vcore and will play around with the settings and no doubt I will make mistakes! One question, is fixed vcore okay for normal day to day use or is adaptive better...I tend to go adaptive as the voltage can lower when not doing anything and part of me thinks the temps will be lower, less stress on the CPU on the flip side getting a stable overclock seems a little more complicated or am I wrong and a fixed is also good?

Yeah if you have any questions just ask, because I have a Z490 Master in front of me, trying to compare two CPU's--note--10900k's not 10700k's, so off topic for this thread (my ES and my retail) that have the same VIDS, up to 5.2 ghz, where the retail chip takes a crap (25mv higher VID at 5.2 ghz, plus i'm using air cooling on that open bench setup) which makes 5.2 VERY hard to stabilize (The ES, with a 360 AIO, can do 5.2 (and is game stable at 5.3) but I run out of temp headroom in Realbench 2.56 at 5.2 ghz, >1.250v die-sense (true) load voltage, so the CPU Cache L0 errors start past 90C...).

The tool isn't that useful at the moment since it can't be run with other monitoring programs like HWinfo64, but at least you can get your real voltages now, which as you can see are much lower than what the sensors say at full load.

As far as the Presets for "CPU Internal AC DC Load Line", I don't know what the presets are, but I know what they were on the Z390 Master.
I calculated the exact Vcore loadline calibration "resistance" (milliohm) values on Z490 thanks to Shamino's tool, and I assume the relationship between the AC/DC Loadline "presets" and the Loadline calibration levels are still the same.

Vcore Loadline Calibration:
Standard/Normal: 1.1 mOhms
Low: 0.85 mOhms
Medium: .68 mOhms
Hiugh: .55 mOhms
Turbo: .29 mOhms
Extreme: .185 mOhms
Ultra Extreme: 0 mOhm

If the same relationship between the AC presets and LLC values still exist, then the CPU Internal AC DC Load Lines should be:

Extreme: AC: 1.7 mOhm, DC: 1.7 mOhm (Bios values in Internal VR Settings->Core IA VR Enable/Config--> AC Loadline: 170, DC Loadline: 170)
Turbo: AC: 1.1 mOhm, DC: 1.1 mOhm (110/110)
Performance: AC: 0.68 mOhm, DC: 0.85 mOhm (68/85). <--on the Z390 Aorus Master, LLC "Low" was 1.3 mOhms, LLC Medium was 1.0 mOhm, and AC/DC Load Line="Performance" was 1.0 mOhm/1.3 mOhm)
Power Saving: AC: 0.29 mOhm, DC: 0.85 mOhm (29/85).

The raw numbers in parenthesis are the values you would have to enter into the Internal VR Core IA settings. Note that the Internal VR Core IA has higher priority and overrules the "preset" options.

The "AC Loadline" helps the CPU request a supply voltage from the VRM, in Auto vcore, Adaptive and Offset voltage modes (offset mode applies an offset to this). This formula is too complicated for me to explain here. Every time I try, no one ever understands (simple math) and they start asking more questions... :/

DC Loadline is used for "Prediction" of the vdroop (basically it predicts the loadline calibration level if you set it to it) and shows the results as "CPU VID". This is used for power reporting ONLY, not for actual voltage!!

 

[Falkentyne]

A massive thanks for this information as it will really help me....And appreciate the help especially as you have the Z490 Master with the BIOS being pretty much the same as my Z490 Ultra. I am looking to get a stable 5GHz all core at the lowest vcore and will play around with the settings and no doubt I will make mistakes! One question, is fixed vcore okay for normal day to day use or is adaptive better...I tend to go adaptive as the voltage can lower when not doing anything and part of me thinks the temps will be lower, less stress on the CPU on the flip side getting a stable overclock seems a little more complicated or am I wrong and a fixed is also good?

I haven't tested adaptive vcore on the Gigabyte, so I dont know. It may or may not be different than Asus' adaptive mode.
Offset mode is good old DVID mode (basically, auto vcore with an offset applied---and that is where the AC Loadline becomes important. Note: Asus sets AC Loadline to 0.01 mOhms on their boards, so if you want to "emulate" it, you can set AC Loadline=1 and DC Loadline=1 manually in your BIOS.

One thing you MUST be warned about:
DO NOT EVER, in auto, adaptive, or offset modes, (and if Override mode is what I think it is, in override mode also), use a HIGH mOhm value of AC Loadline (like 1.1 mOhms, 0.85 mOhms, etc, note 1.1 mOhms is highest Intel spec for 8 and 10 core chips) with a LOW mOhm value for Loadline calibration, EVER. For LLC, the "higher" the LLC level, the lower the mOhm level. Remember?

LLC Standard: 1.1 mOhms
LLC Low: 0.85 mOhms
LLC: Medium: 0.68 mOhms
LLC: High: 0.55 mOhms
Turbo: 0.29 mOhms, etc etc etc.

DO NOT combine a low mOhms Loadline calibration with a high mOhms AC LOADLINE--EVER. (On "Fixed Mode" vcore, this is not important, AC Loadline is ignored on fixed vcore mode). You will seriously overvolt the CPU by doing that.

Ok, anyway, Gigabyte's adaptive mode--didnt use it yet.
Gigabyte has another mode however, called "Override" mode.
What I believe is, this "re-programs the CPU base VID" with the override value--similar to how laptops do it. The CPU VID is where the AC Loadline gets its initial voltage value, which is then raised (based on CPU current in amps) by the mOhms value. Override mode was called "CPU Internal Vcore" on the Gigabyte Z390 Xtreme Waterforce 5G, a board so rare hardly anyone bought it. So there was absolutely no discussion about this option.
Again this is just a GUESS, based on what a user told me who had the Xtreme waterforce 5G and he checked the CPU VID (with AC/DC Loadline=1 set manually), and it matched the "internal cpu vcore" value he set.

 

[vMax65]

Okay a little confused, so to be clear a lower mOhms is required for AC Loadline like High or Turbo?

Also I have attached a picture of HardwareInfo..

I haven't tested adaptive vcore on the Gigabyte, so I dont know. It may or may not be different than Asus' adaptive mode.
Offset mode is good old DVID mode (basically, auto vcore with an offset applied---and that is where the AC Loadline becomes important. Note: Asus sets AC Loadline to 0.01 mOhms on their boards, so if you want to "emulate" it, you can set AC Loadline=1 and DC Loadline=1 manually in your BIOS.

One thing you MUST be warned about:
DO NOT EVER, in auto, adaptive, or offset modes, (and if Override mode is what I think it is, in override mode also), use a HIGH mOhm value of AC Loadline (like 1.1 mOhms, 0.85 mOhms, etc, note 1.1 mOhms is highest Intel spec for 8 and 10 core chips) with a LOW mOhm value for Loadline calibration, EVER. For LLC, the "higher" the LLC level, the lower the mOhm level. Remember?

LLC Standard: 1.1 mOhms
LLC Low: 0.85 mOhms
LLC: Medium: 0.68 mOhms
LLC: High: 0.55 mOhms
Turbo: 0.29 mOhms, etc etc etc.

DO NOT combine a low mOhms Loadline calibration with a high mOhms AC LOADLINE--EVER. (On "Fixed Mode" vcore, this is not important, AC Loadline is ignored on fixed vcore mode). You will seriously overvolt the CPU by doing that.

Ok, anyway, Gigabyte's adaptive mode--didnt use it yet.
Gigabyte has another mode however, called "Override" mode.
What I believe is, this "re-programs the CPU base VID" with the override value--similar to how laptops do it. The CPU VID is where the AC Loadline gets its initial voltage value, which is then raised (based on CPU current in amps) by the mOhms value. Override mode was called "CPU Internal Vcore" on the Gigabyte Z390 Xtreme Waterforce 5G, a board so rare hardly anyone bought it. So there was absolutely no discussion about this option.
Again this is just a GUESS, based on what a user told me who had the Xtreme waterforce 5G and he checked the CPU VID (with AC/DC Loadline=1 set manually), and it matched the "internal cpu vcore" value he set.

 

[vMax65]

Okay, I have gone the fixed vcore route as adaptive just seems to give me to many headaches...I am at a 1.290v for a 5GHz all core overclock though in HarwareInfo the vcore peaks at 1.308v during Cinebench and that is with no AVX ofset...It is a little lower in Prime95 at 1.295v.

Temps actually seem better with Cinebench R20 hitting a max 74 degrees on one core, all the other cores are between 66 and 74 degrees. Also it does downlock the CPU speed to a minimum of 800MHz when idle which makes me feel better.

Have not tried 5.1GHz yet but will try that shortly after a I do a long Prime95 run and Cinebench loop to test long term stability...

 

[Falkentyne]

Okay, I have gone the fixed vcore route as adaptive just seems to give me to many headaches...I am at a 1.290v for a 5GHz all core overclock though in HarwareInfo the vcore peaks at 1.308v during Cinebench and that is with no AVX ofset...It is a little lower in Prime95 at 1.295v.

Temps actually seem better with Cinebench R20 hitting a max 74 degrees on one core, all the other cores are between 66 and 74 degrees. Also it does downlock the CPU speed to a minimum of 800MHz when idle which makes me feel better.

Have not tried 5.1GHz yet but will try that shortly after a I do a long Prime95 run and Cinebench loop to test long term stability...

Do your vcore tests again for me and use this tool and tell me the minimum vcore at heavy load at 5 ghz.
If you ran hwinfo64 before, please REBOOT before running this tool or you will get 0's. Do not run this tool in the same windows session as HWinfo64.

Select 0 for vcore/VR Loop 1

Courtesy of Asus.

 

[vMax65]

Here you go. I used the first one:

 

[Falkentyne]

Here you go. I used the first one:

Ok your minimum accurate (die sense) vcore at 5 ghz at max load is 1.235v, which is accurate within 5mv.

Reducing voltage any more in BIOS lower is unstable?

 

[vMax65]

Yes it becomes unstable.

 

[vMax65]

But those figures are better than I get in HardwareInfo....

 

[Falkentyne]

Yes it becomes unstable.

Thank you. Need to compare results with others.

 

[vMax65]

No, thank you sir!...Just a quick follow up, is it okay to run this overclock and fixed vcore for my normal day to day use?

 

[Falkentyne]

double post

 

[Falkentyne]

No, thank you sir!...Just a quick follow up, is it okay to run this overclock and fixed vcore for my normal day to day use?

Yes you are fine. Did you have cpu-z or anything else running though? Your amps draw was not shown properly.
Yes, hwinfo64 and other programs are using the Bios "Socket sense" reading (MLCC caps behind the socket), and the second reading in HWinfo64 is from Super I/O. These are not going to be accurate because of impedance across the power plane causing a voltage drop (which means the sensors will read MORE voltage than what you are using).

This tool probes the VRM directly. This is the same reading you got as "VR VOUT" on the Z390 boards.
HWinfo's programmer is working on implementing VR VOUT for the Gigabyte Z490 boards but he isn't sure how to communicate with the chip yet, through PMBUS, but it uses a certain protocol for it.

Try rebooting and running NO monitoring programs at all, and having NO monitoring programs auto-start with windows, Just use this tool. See if you can get IOUT and POUT to register properly. IOUT should be around 100 to 150 amps and POUT probably 150 watts.