Quote:

Originally Posted by ncck

580: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125960

570: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125965

They come in other models too I only linked the gigabyte one

Not sure what nvidia cards these are on par with.. maybe a 1070?

1060

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncck

Not sure what nvidia cards these are on par with.. maybe a 1070?

No, think slightly improved RX 470 , RX 480's. Still mostly a GTX 1060 competitor.

There are some reviews at Tomshardware and Anandtech, most don't put the RX580 in a good light tho.

 

Gotcha. The prices on the 570 are pretty damn good though for budget gamers. So I guess we still have to wait for VEGA to see if we get some competition to the 1070+ lineups? Hope they do cause I'd really like to see some price changes for the high end

 

I keep hearing the 580 is not for people with a 480, being that I bought the 480 not long ago this pleases me.

 

disappointed. was hoping to replace my 290 with a 580.. but if it can barely beat a 1060.. ugh. do i wait for vega or just get a 1070 for £300 *groan*

 

Wait for Vega and see. I think you will want to see what comes of it. I am glad to see this release as a refresh/update to the RX470 and 480, but I think the problem is in the naming scheme. They could've called them RX475 and 485 respecitvely and passed that off, but perhaps this is marketing strategery at work

......

That's pretty much what we are buying these days......49%engineering and %51 marketing. But at least AMD seems to be keeping their pricing realistic for the time being, let's see if they can mess that up like Nvidia is doing as well.

 

You linked the worst AMD GPU brand besides Powercolor and other minor brands. Don't buy Gigabyte , the mosfets used are double the RDS(ON) of other boards (ASUS/XFX/Sapphire) and on top of that they have tiny slits for exhaust so if you don't vent your PCIe slot covers you're in trouble.


AON6508+AON6414A mosfets used per https://news.xfastest.com/review/33736/gigabyte-aorus-rx-580-8g-xtr-graphics-card-review/
AON6414A spec = RDS(ON) (at VGS=10V) < 8mW , RDS(ON) (at VGS=4.5V) < 10.5mW
AON6508 spec = RDS(ON) (at VGS=10V) < 3.2mW , RDS(ON) (at VGS = 4.5V) < 5mW

The RX 580 is on par with GTX 1060 6GB , the RX 570 is on par with GTX 1060 3GB.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaC

on top of that they have tiny slits for exhaust so if you don't vent your PCIe slot covers you're in trouble.

Those slits don't really affect the cooling in a dual down firing fan design. The hot air gets exhausted to all sides of the board into the case and very little makes it out the airdam.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by briank

Those slits don't really affect the cooling in a dual down firing fan design. The hot air gets exhausted to all sides of the board into the case and very little makes it out the airdam.

Right, look at the direction of the fins. Air is not flowing by them out the back of the case. Air is flowing down onto them and out towards your motherboard and towards your case side panel.

 

I am fully aware those are two axial fans. However if the bracket has less venting than all other axial designs and the mosfets have higher power loss it's just not a good card.

 

Thanks for the info alpha but this wasn't really a "go purchase this" it was more of a look two new models go look into it. I just picked the first ones in the list from the email lol

I'm not recommending any brand just letting people know.

 

Thinking about picking a RX 580 for testing purposes

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Nixeus

Thinking about picking a RX 580 for testing purposes

Any idea which one you will be getting?

Based on what we know so far I think the best ones will be the ASUS STRIX / XFX GTR / Sapphire Nitro+

ASUS fixed their heatsink contact & added a 2.5 slot cooler

XFX made their card uglier ...

Sapphire finally got their act together with the Nitro+ cards with revised cooler that's double the size (they actually have 6 phases this time instead of 4 or 5)

MSI using mediocre PCB with decent cooler (see Guru3D ASUS result vs MSI's)

Gigabyte using same worse-than-reference PCB with different cooler

Powercolor still didn't learn their lesson

 

I'm thinking the XFX RX 580 Crimson is probably the best one to get.

This is a solid PCB (DirectFET Mosfets, 6 phases - good enough and probably the best RX 580 PCB):


Assuming the cooling is similar, it should look like this for the VRM cooling:



The only question is how good this cooler is:


NOt sure if this card and cooler are longer (might be useful if there is more surface area for the cooler.

The Sapphire looks ok.

The XFX looks longer, so there may be more surface area on the cooler, unless the XFX has a much lower fin density.

At 300A though on the low side, it's not going to beat the XFX, but it's decent.

Sapphire claims it's cherry picked:
http://sapphirenitro.sapphiretech.com/en/580-LE.html

OF course if the XFX is clocked to >1450 MHz boost there probably is some binning involved too.

No idea how good the cooling is, but the fin density looks high, which is good:


Assuming the Strix RX 580 is the same PCB as the STrix RX 480, I don't see it beating the XFX:

Keep in mind that if you push to 1500 MHz, you will easily be at Hawaii levels of heat. I think the XFX is the one to get.

 

Hmmm, how about this. Between these two cards, which would be better? Are gigabyte cards that bad? I remember sapphire got a bad rep for their 480

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202278&cm_re=radeon_rx_580-_-14-202-278-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125961&cm_re=radeon_rx_580-_-14-125-961-_-Product

The only two 580 cards that can fit in my case.

 

Don't buy the Sapphire PULSE RX 580s because AFAIK the one with the old grille has the old design (i.e. RX 480)

If you don't need freesync , seriously consider a MSI GTX 1060 6GB AERO ITX or GTX 1070 AERO ITX if space is a concern. If you need ITX size then maybe the RX 570 PULSE ITX could work but nobody knows what is under the heatsink. I might buy one to find out.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaC

Don't buy the Sapphire PULSE RX 580s because AFAIK the one with the old grille has the old design (i.e. RX 480)
.

there wasn't anything wrong with the old nitro design, whats your point in saying not to get the pulse besides to plug the 1060?

you "might" not get as high an OC maybe but there isnt anything wrong with it

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaC

Don't buy the Sapphire PULSE RX 580s because AFAIK the one with the old grille has the old design (i.e. RX 480)

If you don't need freesync , seriously consider a MSI GTX 1060 6GB AERO ITX or GTX 1070 AERO ITX if space is a concern. If you need ITX size then maybe the RX 570 PULSE ITX could work but nobody knows what is under the heatsink. I might buy one to find out.

I have a freesync monitor, so it's in my best interest to make use of it. Are the Pulse really the same design as the 480? The Pulse 580 is actually shorter than the 480 Nitro. The ITX 1070 is tempting, but still too pricey for me.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucdan

I have a freesync monitor, so it's in my best interest to make use of it. Are the Pulse really the same design as the 480? The Pulse 580 is actually shorter than the 480 Nitro. The ITX 1070 is tempting, but still too pricey for me.

they look to be, but that isn't exactly a bad thing

If your primary concern is ability to overclock over 1400mhz+ then the pulse isn't for you as the nitro+ will accomplish this better. If that's not a big deal then the pulse is fine there wasn't anything wrong with the old 480 design

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echoa

they look to be, but that isn't exactly a bad thing

If your primary concern is ability to overclock over 1400mhz+ then the pulse isn't for you as the nitro+ will accomplish this better. If that's not a big deal then the pulse is fine there wasn't anything wrong with the old 480 design

That's what I figured. Not concerned with OCing, more concerned about heat and power and will try undervolting. And if I could undervolt the card, that would be perfect. Any feelers on the Gigabyte Aorus version? I've always been a Sapphire guy, but I'm open to options.

I already ordered the Pulse. But from everywhere I look, Gigabyte still has a mediocre board on their AMD Aorus cards, similar to their AMD G1 Gaming cards.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echoa

there wasn't anything wrong with the old nitro design, whats your point in saying not to get the pulse besides to plug the 1060?

you "might" not get as high an OC maybe but there isnt anything wrong with it

The old nitro design is a disaster. It was loud and hot and throttled under silent mode BIOS.

The new Nitro+ cooler is TWICE the fin area and 2 more heatpipes.
Quote:

The Dual-X cooler featured in the latest SAPPHIRE NITRO+ RX 500 Series cards is an all-new design. We've doubled the fin surface area and used an efficient combination of 2x 8 mm and 2x 6 mm copper heatpipes. As a result, both the noise level and temperatures are down compared to our previous generation.

http://sapphirenitro.sapphiretech.com/en/580-8.html

If it was great they wouldn't make it all new.



http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Radeon-RX-580-8G-Grafikkarte-265939/Tests/RX-570-Review-Benchmarks-1225896/
Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-570-4gb,5028.html
Unfortunately, Sapphire's cooling performance is merely mediocre. The card constantly stays below its 1342 MHz specification during our gaming loop, and the clock rate jumps around quite a bit. The reasons this card gets so hot are tied to its power limit (set way too high) and undersized cooler. Our stress test shows how the GPU frequency falls through the floor as the thermal threshold is

Very easy math, 5 x IR3553 (40A maximum) is 200A max. IR3553 drops below 90% efficiency at ~ 30A (x5 = 150A) and if you look at the thermal derating curve , above 65°C you will not even be able to have 35A. Assuming that is a 1.1 to 1.15V GPU voltage then it means once you exceed ~170W GPU core power draw you'll start dropping efficiency.

edit: Also there's no reason to get a RX 580 with the old design as the RX 480 when you can buy the RX 480 version for a good $40 cheaper.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaC

The old nitro design is a disaster. It was loud and hot and throttled under silent mode BIOS.

The new Nitro+ cooler is TWICE the fin area and 2 more heatpipes.
http://sapphirenitro.sapphiretech.com/en/580-8.html

If it was great they wouldn't make it all new.



http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Radeon-RX-580-8G-Grafikkarte-265939/Tests/RX-570-Review-Benchmarks-1225896/

disaster is a huge exaggeration, the biggest issue with the old nitro cooler was poor thermal paste/pads and an awful fan curve which took forever to spin up the fans which got loud at anything over 2100rpm (hence the curve that took forever). The heatsink itself was fine and claiming it was a "disaster" simply because they improved it is asinine, something being improved doesn't make the old one garbage and the silent bios was meant to be silent and had low limits for that purpose (to keep the loud fans off as much as possible), you just had to flip a switch (literally) to go into boost mode which doesn't throttle. The old design wasnt close to as bad as you claim it to be, its not as good as the new one is (obviously, new ones better) but it wasnt nitro 911.

 

Wow, that's a big difference in heatsink size. I would get the Nitro+ with the new cooler, but too big for my case, sadly. I saw the old Nitro non-plus model that would fit in my case, it looked like it was using slower RAM similar to the RX 470, and it was only about $15 cheaper on newegg after rebates, and I hate rebates. Also, the power connector was on the far end of the card, which wouldn't work for me. My case can only accept up 240mm.

I think I'll be happy with the Pulse model as it has the proper power connector orientation I need. I'll be undervolting it to keep it cool in a small case. Though I remember that the 480 Nitro+ didn't struggle to stay cool, so if it has the same cooler (which it seems like it will), I won't have much problems.

Thanks for the strong insights though. Good findings.

 

I am going to echo Echoa's comment in that it is good that they redesigned the heatsink, but not a disaster. They obvoiusly let that thing leave the dev room and factory floor after trying it out.

But somethings you just find out after releasing to market, such as how their heatsink performed worse in comparison to others, so a little reverse engineering of a competitior's product is likely part of the redesign.

It's an interesting market of competitors out there these days. The enthusiast has quite the lineup to choose from with neck and neck performance sometimes. It wasn't that long ago that nobody had heard of Zotac or some of the others....but I digress.

Anyway, have you stacked up the board features?
A couple articles out there are doing that.
http://segmentnext.com/2017/04/19/which-amd-rx-580-or-570-variant-is-right-for-you/

But this one didn't have a pretty chart.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigceeloc

I am going to echo Echoa's comment in that it is good that they redesigned the heatsink, but not a disaster. They obvoiusly let that thing leave the dev room and factory floor after trying it out.

But somethings you just find out after releasing to market, such as how their heatsink performed worse in comparison to others, so a little reverse engineering of a competitior's product is likely part of the redesign.

It's an interesting market of competitors out there these days. The enthusiast has quite the lineup to choose from with neck and neck performance sometimes. It wasn't that long ago that nobody had heard of Zotac or some of the others....but I digress.

Anyway, have you stacked up the board features?
A couple articles out there are doing that.
http://segmentnext.com/2017/04/19/which-amd-rx-580-or-570-variant-is-right-for-you/

But this one didn't have a pretty chart.

We need to the VRM temps for the Sapphire.

This was the RX480:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-480-graphics-card-roundup,4962-4.html



The HIS RX480 Roaring has the same PCB as the XFX RX 480 GTR Black. They both use 6 stage DIrectFET.

At this time, I would like to retract my earlier recommendation to consider the Sapphire RX 580 Nitro. The older Sapphire RX 480 Nitro was with 5x IR3555 (so 5x 60A @ 300A). The new Sapphire RX 580 Nitro has 6x Vishay SIC632A (so still the same 300A). But the RX 580 will draw quite a bit more current.

This is the RX 480 Nitro from the same Tom's Hardware Review


Unless the RX 580 Nitro is proven to run have cool running VRMs, do NOT buy the RX 580 Nitro! Considering these VRMs run at close to 100C even with RX 480 OC'ed speeds, at RX 580 Nitro+ speeds, it could be on the order of 120C or more!

On that note, I am prepared to recommend that people consider the HIS RX 580 Roaring Turbo:

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-941.shtml



It should have the same 6 stage DirectFET as the RX 480 Roaring Turbo and the XFX RX 480 GTR, along with the XFX RX 580 Crimson. The main advantage of the XFX is that they offer swappable fans. So that leaves the XFX RX 580 (only buy the ones with the same RX 480 GTR PCB and the HIS RX 580 Roaring Turbo).