The pot and the kettle, they've all given up on ethics cause they're trying to make money taking pocket money from and spamming ads at kids.

 

This forum too uses ads, so I should put on doubt everything that is posted here, this post too

 

Large tech YouTubers in general are all manchildren with egos the size of Mars, I usually avoid them. Better to read written reviews.

 

Did anyone actually watch the video here?

GN has put together a well researched and scathing indictment of another reviewer's unethical behaviour; the effort should be applauded by all enthusiasts

 

Did anyone actually watch the video here?

GN has put together a well researched and scathing indictment of another reviewer's unethical behaviour; the effort should be applauded by all enthusiasts

which one? jay?

 

1) refused to return prototype at request of maker, maker incurs financial losses making the prototype they will not see again

2) sold prototype that could be reversed engineered and further damage the company if someone else manufactures it

3) knowingly torpedoed the start-up's name and reputation with the video about a 3090 Ti waterblock not working on a 4090 video card, which can hinder future sales. but also open up the avenue for the buyer of the prototype to resell a reverse engineered version under a new name while the billet name is sullied by the review.


**** up does not even begin to describe how horrid that situation is.

 

Haven't watched the video yet but I will, however...

Never liked linus or his 50 million damn channels (no joke I got the channel blocker browser plugin just to block his crap). They've always done dodgy stuff though. The one video I remember and the one that made me stop watching his channel altogether (not that I watched much) was where he dropped an expensive motherboard I think it was because his display was utterly crap and you could see it was going to fall, damaged it, laughed it off and got a replacement from the company for his own stupidity .

Also the vast majority of his videos are pointless anyway, cant remember any that really have actual information, it's mostly ads and time wasting crap. At least GN does have a lot of useful information in there videos, not that I watch them much either.

 

I think he should have some cheese with that (whine).

 

Some one just wanna give me quick TLDR.

 

I skipped through it simply to know what I might have to deal with in this thread, because both sides have... let's call them "enthusiastic" supporters.

Accusations include:

-Poor reviewing practices
-Pressure to publish causing easy to catch unforced errors
-Close ties to companies calling into question their impartiality in reviews
-Appalling lack of integrity regarding handing a startups' prototype hardware (when I reached the section about auctioning off a prototype which they apparently promised to return I just about hit the roof)

I'd much rather read some tables and graphs in five minutes than I would listen to a YouTube "influencer" ramble on for an hour, so neither LTT nor GN are aimed at my demographic.

However, auctioning off prototype hardware without explicit permission should result in some heavy legal action against them - that's, what, potential IP theft, even potential industrial espionage? Screwing up numbers in a chart is lazy, but the accusation of putting prototype hardware up for auction without explicit permission after being previously asked to return it is a whole other level.

 

They auctioned off a 1 of 1 prototype sent to them for testing???!!!

That's dirty...

 

Yea this one is really sticking out from all of this. LTT was always more of a clown show than any kind of a serious tech channel so all the "integrity" concerns that were raised should be obvious to anyone who watched any of their videos for more than 3 minutes and if anyone needs to be told to not make purchase decisions based on information from channels like this then they should probably be walking in a helmet and pillow armor 24/7 as well, but misrepresenting and then stealing 1 of 1 prototype from a startup company would be an absolutely disgusting case of power abuse and even potentially a legal case.

But on the other hand we don't really know what the exact deal was, and I generally agree with others that Steve's video is probably not without his own agendas, and whatever LTT says in response cannot be trusted at all either, so it will probably end up in never-ending back and forth battle of generic PR statements, lies and manipulations like any drama these days. People have gotten so good at this that there can basically be no closure to cases like this, they can basically keep it going forever without any conclusion or accountability, especially with the number of diehard shills each side typically has in such conflicts. And then the topic will deplete and everyone will move on to next one.

It generally does look like Linus just has too much on his hands. The company grew too big and he just cannot handle it anymore. It tends to bring out the worst traits out of people and the reduction in quality, general chaos and then gaslighting anyone who raises concerns is what typically happens in such situations. He must be aware of it to a degree if he hired a CEO for the company so he can get some things off his back, but it either didn't work or it needs time.

 

He's a businessman, not an ethics coordinator. Nothing will change, he knows how to make money. Same as a company with a tolerance level on a physical product. His tolerance level is having relatively low...ish....errors, as long as the end result is the same. He posted on his own forum about how the errors didn't affect the outcome recommendation and he's right.

Now, I don't watch LTT he's way too high strung for me. But business is business and he'll continue to do it the way that obviously makes him a killing. He'll keep posting vids, nobody will care about this in a week and it'll be like it never happened. Remember the time LTT, jay2c, all of them swore off nvidia for crapping on HWUB? Nobody remembers. Nobody remembered a week after it went down and jay and linus were back buying leather jackets for nvidia ceo in no time.

I think steve is playing a very dangerous game going after any and every company. I almost find it a little questionable that he went after LTT when I know him and linus talk all the time and I'm sure the businessman himself helped Steve get started. Then to turn around on him. I understand Steve's "it is my job to ignore personal relationships" mentality to have an unbiased opinion of things, but he literally took down his own father imo. Theres a difference between a legit review and disrespect. Especially when, as I just said, linus wont change the way he does things. This was nothing but steve cutting his own umbilical cord to continue gaining views but not only that, subs, which have exploded for him in recent months as he continues his exposing of companies. I'm not saying he shouldn't, obviously it helped newegg get a hint. But we all know him and linus text and talk all the time and for his shadow to destroy linus while his front side smiles at him, I mean.... Just odd.

 

He's a businessman, not an ethics coordinator. Nothing will change, he knows how to make money. Same as a company with a tolerance level on a physical product. His tolerance level is having relatively low...ish....errors, as long as the end result is the same. He posted on his own forum about how the errors didn't affect the outcome recommendation and he's right.

Now, I don't watch LTT he's way too high strung for me. But business is business and he'll continue to do it the way that obviously makes him a killing. He'll keep posting vids, nobody will care about this in a week and it'll be like it never happened. Remember the time LTT, jay2c, all of them swore off nvidia for crapping on HWUB? Nobody remembers. Nobody remembered a week after it went down and jay and linus were back buying leather jackets for nvidia ceo in no time.

I think steve is playing a very dangerous game going after any and every company. I almost find it a little questionable that he went after LTT when I know him and linus talk all the time and I'm sure the businessman himself helped Steve get started. Then to turn around on him. I understand Steve's "it is my job to ignore personal relationships" mentality to have an unbiased opinion of things, but he literally took down his own father imo. Theres a difference between a legit review and disrespect. Especially when, as I just said, linus wont change the way he does things. This was nothing but steve cutting his own umbilical cord to continue gaining views but not only that, subs, which have exploded for him in recent months as he continues his exposing of companies. I'm not saying he shouldn't, obviously it helped newegg get a hint. But we all know him and linus text and talk all the time and for his shadow to destroy linus while his front side smiles at him, I mean.... Just odd.

I think Steve is correct in everything he pointed out but it was more than a "LTT's data is bad and needs to be fixed"; it very close to (I argue it was) an ego building smear video by Gamer's. The 60 Minutes of youtube reviewers. And then ending the vidoe with "anyways, that's my thoughts on this" was pretty close to a deflection of responsibility of the video...

Anyways, I've noticed quite a few errors from LTT's "testing" for while now, and was not surprised to see Gamer's finally make a video calling them out. But I'm not sure it was as "objective" as Steve tries to imply.

But the bit where they auctioned off a 1 of 1 prototype from a startup company was pretty upsetting . Currious what Linus's defense on that will be.

 

Here's his response.

Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

linustechtips.com

 

Hopefully it’s the beginning of his downfall and YouTube video all together will disappear. Those *%**ing kids (YouTube viewer) destroyed my beloved Anandtech (which was the gold standard for review) which I was reading daily for over 20 years.

 

I think Steve is correct in everything he pointed out but it was more than a "LTT's data is bad and needs to be fixed"; it very close to (I argue it was) an ego building smear video by Gamer's. The 60 Minutes of youtube reviewers. And then ending the vidoe with "anyways, that's my thoughts on this" was pretty close to a deflection of responsibility of the video...

Anyways, I've noticed quite a few errors from LTT's "testing" for while now, and was not surprised to see Gamer's finally make a video calling them out. But I'm not sure it was as "objective" as Steve tries to imply.

But the bit where they auctioned off a 1 of 1 prototype from a startup company was pretty upsetting . Currious what Linus's defense on that will be.

well, that is just one part of why I dislike GN, one part he always puts his ego in front of the video, then he always says "at least at the time of testing" or some crap like that deflecting all responsibility, then where is his ego?

 

The pot and the kettle, they've all given up on ethics cause they're trying to make money taking pocket money from and spamming ads at kids.

Because written review sites never made money from ads? It's what the whole Internet runs on. TV before it. Magazines... newspapers... What would you say is an ethical review business?

He's a businessman, not an ethics coordinator.

I think the main point Steve was trying to make is that LTT is actively making a shift from being primarily entertainment to being a reputable source for independent, empirical product testing. That aspect would greatly benefit from journalistic integrity and attention to detail, neither of which seem to be current priorities at LTT. At least not over keeping their well-oiled money printing machine churning. At some point those two things come into conflict.

That said, I do agree that Steve isn't exactly without an agenda here. He's a personality in his own right and there's plenty of salt and fire stoking sprinkled throughout the video.

 

Since LTT is portraying themselves to be (among other things) an independent, reputable reviewing channel for all sort of tech stuff, their PC component reviews are extensively rushed because of their own self imposed crazy deadlines and targets and I've noticed the plethora of mistakes corrected by asterisks myself in many of his videos.

I'm with Steve 100%, saw the whole video and he is absolutely right, proven with cold facts. Goes to show his true professionalism and why he is regarded as PC Jesus haha. Back to Linus tho, he has one option to save face and keep his reputation, but is he the Linus that we once knew?, to admit his management mistake, own up to it and come forward with some improvement points that steer his channels more towards quality rather than quantity, or will he go the dark route taken by so many entrepreneurs when they start getting big, and continue pushing very questionable content, just to have more and MORE of it to drive revenue? I honestly hope its the former of the two.

Really looking forward to see Linus' response to this tho. I love me some internet drama ngl

 

professionalism is NOT about bashing other people's review, professionalism is about doing your job and let people decide what they want to see or not, let people decide what they can or want to criticize , nobody is here to tell other people what to like or not, if YOU like it then go watch it, when a person ASK for YOUR opinion on a product, what to buy or not, then with all due respect and PROFESSIONALISM please explain your opinion on the matter

 

All I see out of this, having watched this crap unfold simply due to a power outage for almost a full 10 hours (thanks homepage of the internet!) . . . is...

The industry they're in is content. Said 'content' is the basis for the extendable arms of revenue streams -> merchandise, subs, ads, and more and driven primarily by a personality -> Linus, who owns 'the show' (my own reference to the whole LMG operation), even as there may be a CEO who directs the business, albeit likely from a purely corporate frame of reference.

What they can't have, is 'other' top identities within the company umbrella, unless the time to expand means devouring the local competition (natural corporate marketplace tendency) or adjoining them into the fold. While they work their way there, they won't allow anyone else on that 'employee' roster to amp into a position that threatens Linus' position or role; least of which, is likely, not without his say anyway. I see a business that has not been deployed well with limitations on how to grow due primarily to the underlying nature of the driver, Linus, needing to breed the content.

It resembles a business lacking focus on prime operating practices before indulging in either an ill timed expansion or too early to market products. My background in hospitality would analogize this to a restaurant who primarily serves dinners but hasn't found their rhythm or pace and decides to open another meal period to increase revenue to make up for other mismanaged meal periods. Ideally, and generally, you get the thing down pat, then rinse and repeat until you can scale or expand into new business opportunities. Feels like a vision with lack of planning to me.

The rest of it - the tidbits, the "PR" bits between the two, the history - it's all natural. No different than competing companies of history. It's all much more intimate it seems with how we use technology these days. The all 'voices' on deck mode could use a little scaling back IMHO.

EDIT/Addition:

The idolization of these 'influencers' or 'reviewers' or 'personalities' is deafening. I don't understand it at all.

 

How many of those bashing Steve and/or the video did see the full video? How about seeing the full video and find out if it's true or not without looking for motive or agenda.

 

because professionalism is NOT about bashing other channels, professionalism is about doing your job, put your work out there to the people to decide if the like it or not, professionalism has never been about telling people "i'm a professional and they're not"

 

Oh boy. Looks like it's hitting the fan now... I think this might be more than Steve bargained for.

 

Interesting. I'm reading (was reading!) the thread at the minute, loaded a new page with no problem, then tested the next page from seeing this and, yup, it's down.

At one point, pages were being added faster than I could read them.

People aren't happy, from what I can see. The limp justification for the sorry-not-sorry non-testing of that prototype block may end up costing much more than just a few hundred dollars to reshoot and pay overtime.

...

I'm pleased that OCN has remained calm in this thread.

 

The most interesting thing about Linus's response is where he discusses compensation to Billet Labs being agreed upon by both parties. I doubt that the compensation was paid as a gesture of good will by Linus, I'm almost certain it was a result of legal action by Billet's lawyers.

 

I doubt that the compensation was paid as a gesture of good will by Linus, I'm almost certain it was a result of legal action by Billet's lawyers.

Linus was very adamant about spending a few hundred dollars to properly retest the water block, why would Linus pay as "good will" if he is that stringent?

 

 

so 13 min to say nothing at all?

 

This is some next level cat fight ,so childish ...

 

Feels like an episode of the Jeremy Kyle Show, just with youtubers......

 

Just the fact that Linus sold someone's prototype without permission is insane to me. I mean, only an insane person would do that, film it, and think no one would be bothered by it.

The thing that sticks out to me the most about Linus is when he cried about his success, went off the air for a while and then came back with a beard. To me, he seems like a kid who found himself in control of unexpected business success by basically being the Blues Clues of YouTube tech videos and appealing to kids. He clearly is in over his head now. He should take a vacation, step away from holding the reigns, grow as a person for a while, and then consider coming back in a better mindset.

 

Just the fact that Linus sold someone's prototype without permission is insane to me. I mean, only an insane person would do that, film it, and think no one would be bothered by it.

The thing that sticks out to me the most about Linus is when he cried about his success, went off the air for a while and then came back with a beard. To me, he seems like a kid who found himself in control of unexpected business success by basically being the Blues Clues of YouTube tech videos and appealing to kids. He clearly is in over his head now. He should take a vacation, step away from holding the reigns, grow as a person for a while, and then consider coming back in a better mindset.

Guarantee you he's digging for that $100 million offer right about now lol

 

Yikes about that prototype. I don't watch LTT, but man, that's pretty low. Why would you ever think its a good idea to sell/auction a prototype?

Anyway, for years now everyone has said not to take LTT seriously for reviews because they are bad with bad data, which makes it funny to me that he wanted to pivot to the whole Labs thing, but still seems to be in a quantity over quality mentality so Labs isn't helping them any it seems.

 

I've never really valued the opinions on anything out of the LMG group. I felt that much of his info was heavily biased and methodology in analysis often was to prove his bias rather than provide accurate data.

Most of the material he covered over the years have been relatively light in info, so not really impactful. Now that they are moving into data driven analysis, the accuracy of the data really is the most important thing.

In just about every video that I have seen from them, there are multiple cringe moments. Flaws in methodology and execution. One that stands out to me was when he was delidding a CPU, to show that it wasn't something worth considering (think it was a 7700k?). Not only did he use Noctua paste under the IHS, but he didn't remove the silicone from the substrate or edge of the IHS, which is really the most benefit from doing the delid. He then went to show only a couple degrees of difference from before the delid. Having delidded 10+ CPUs at that point, my minimum drop in temp was 10C, average being closer to 20C, and max was 30C. So, his understanding of the purpose of delidding was flawed. Especially since I have had to delid haswell CPUs that whould throttle at stock speeds which were purchased cheap "as is", but ran very well after the delid. That stood out to me as a representation of his approach to the videos, with a strong bias and not looking to gain a full understanding before executing and failing, and publicly claiming that something is not of value when it is. I didn't watch the Billet Labs video, but this episode came to mind seeing some of the small clips about the failed test with it.

I have my own gripes with GN, but at least their data has high accuracy, and they post written reviews so I can easily just analyze that data for myself. Same with HU @TechSpot.

 

The guy is a muppet, why do people even bother to mention him? He was yanking on the tube because it was too short and causing the card to cause pressure on the pci-e slot.

He is a straight up moron.

What? That vid I linked explains the progression of processes into the EUV age.
You must think I linked a different video??
Watch it when you get the time its really informative.

BTW, I've had LTT blocked since day one. He's a fool.

LTT are outliers because they are bought and paid for shills.

I see nothing to change my opinion.



____

because professionalism is NOT about bashing other channels, professionalism is about doing your job, put your work out there to the people to decide if the like it or not, professionalism has never been about telling people "i'm a professional and they're not"

Actually calling out Bad info and protecting those from fake experts is the epitome of Professionalism, especially when it does not enrich you.

And GN's Video is not Monetized.

With that being said Steve does make some errors of his own and has a bit of an inflated opinion of himself.

It was amusing watching him trying to speak at the level of those AMD engineers that were dumbing the conversation down for his benefit.

 

I see nothing to change my opinion.



____





Actually calling out Bad info and protecting those from fake experts is the epitome of Professionalism, especially when it does not enrich you.

And GN's Video is not Monetized.

With that being said Steve does make some errors of his own and has a bit of an inflated opinion of himself.

It was amusing watching him trying to speak at the level of those AMD engineers that were dumbing the conversation down for his benefit.

Yeah my biggest problem with Steve is he purposefully makes videos longer than they need to be while talking in a manner that sounds smarter than it is to drag it out longer.

 

Wow. Steve is laying it on...