[mongoled]

Hi!

Broke some tiny "resistors" off my Viper Steels RAM modules.

After the breaking off of said resistors the RAM could not post.

Investigating if the missing resistors were the cause of the non post scenario I bridged the pads with a fine piece of wire.

After doing this the RAM can post.

My question is as follows.

When I removed said resistor and measure the resistance I get a reading of 15.2 ohms.

When I test if the resistor is a short with my multimeter it indicates with a beep that it is a short.

But when I Google as to what is accepted as a short the general value is agreed to be between 1 to 2 ohms.

So back to my RAM and resistor.

Firstly, seeing that these resistors measure 15.2 ohms which is considerably higher then what is considered a short, why does my multimeter beep when I measure across the resistor? I am guessing its because it is a low quality multimeter ?

Secondly, seeing that the RAM works by simply bridging the pads, why are there many 15.2 ohm resistor doing this job that could have been done with a fine piece of wire ?

 

[kiriakos]

But when I Google as to what is accepted as a short the general value is agreed to be between 1 to 2 ohms.

1) It seems Google not be aware that shunt resistors they are below of 1 Ohm.
2) For small factor resistors we do not use a multimeter, but new method of a measurement by the use of reverse polarity pulses.
3) Just contact Viper Steels RAM modules brand, and ask them of part-code of resistors that you can use, by me assuming that you are capable to solder them back.

 

[Asmodian]

Firstly, seeing that these resistors measure 15.2 ohms which is considerably higher then what is considered a short, why does my multimeter beep when I measure across the resistor? I am guessing its because it is a low quality multimeter ?

The "short" test of a multimeter is meant to beep if there is good electrical conduction, it is a conductivity test not a test for a true zero resistance short. It is normal to beep even with fairly high resistance, so it beeps even with very long wires, etc. It is much better to beep when there is a low resistive load between them than not beep when two wires are actually connected, but it is far away. It is a quick and dirty test to see which wires are connected to the same circuit and similar without looking at the screen (think house wiring).

It is not a sign of a low quality multimeter.

Secondly, seeing that the RAM works by simply bridging the pads, why are there many 15.2 ohm resistor doing this job that could have been done with a fine piece of wire ?

And you only need the fine wire because the circuit board has a break in the trace and pads to connect the resistor, they really must serve a function.

Something is using more current than it needs when you are using the wire (V=IR, R went down and V is the same). Also, it is very unlikely it would work if you replaced all of them with wire. They are for regulating power use, and helping clean up power when combined with small capacitors. Boards often work with some resistors missing or replaced by shorts, but not too many, and some resistor values are critical and cannot be replaced by shorts even if they are the only one replaced.

 

[Farih]

"When I test if the resistor is a short with my multimeter it indicates with a beep that it is a short. "

The beep doesnt mean "short" it means a low resistance connection.
If the resistor was hooked up in series it can basicly never be a "short"

"When I removed said resistor and measure the resistance I get a reading of 15.2 ohms."

Normally you would measure through the resistor BUT that would only work if its the lowest resistance in the electrical path where you put your multimeter.
Since the resistor is not there anymore you basicly measure the resistance through a different path, the measurement has no value here because you basicly dont know what you are measuring (dont know the path its taking and dont know the electrical circuit by drawing or head)

"When I test if the resistor is a short with my multimeter it indicates with a beep that it is a short."

Not necessary a "short" Its a low resistance connection.
The meter would beep on a 0.5 or 1.5 Ohm resistance to.
A resistor of 0.5 ohm ofcfourse is not by default a "short"

"But when I Google as to what is accepted as a short the general value is agreed to be between 1 to 2 ohms."

False, like said before a resistor of 1 ohm is not by default a "short"

Shorting a circuit happens when a +, L, Phase makes direct connection to a minus, 0 and/or PE (Protected Earth)


I know this doesn't help to get your card fixed though.... sorry

 

[mongoled]

1) It seems Google not be aware that shunt resistors they are below of 1 Ohm.
2) For small factor resistors we do not use a multimeter, but new method of a measurement by the use of reverse polarity pulses.
3) Just contact Viper Steels RAM modules brand, and ask them of part-code of resistors that you can use, by me assuming that you are capable to solder them back.

Well as I am not an electronics specialist (why would I ask such basic questions if I was) I do not have access to reverse polarity pulse equipment but thanks for informing me that as an amateur a multimeter is of no use.

Seeing that the distributor for Viper products in Europe (Patriot Memory BV) ignored my question regards different revisions of the same model number product I very much doubt they are going to answer my question asking the part-code of said resistor.

Well I can solder a 0.6 mm resistor onto a PCB using a 4 mm soldering tip without the use of a magnifying glass so I think I am capable

The "short" test of a multimeter is meant to beep if there is good electrical conduction, it is a conductivity test not a test for a true zero resistance short. It is normal to beep even with fairly high resistance, so it beeps even with very long wires, etc. It is much better to beep when there is a low resistive load between them than not beep when two wires are actually connected, but it is far away. It is a quick and dirty test to see which wires are connected to the same circuit and similar without looking at the screen (think house wiring).

It is not a sign of a low quality multimeter.

And you only need the fine wire because the circuit board has a break in the trace and pads to connect the resistor, they really must serve a function.

Something is using more current than it needs when you are using the wire (V=IR, R went down and V is the same). Also, it is very unlikely it would work if you replaced all of them with wire. They are for regulating power use, and helping clean up power when combined with small capacitors. Boards often work with some resistors missing or replaced by shorts, but not too many, and some resistor values are critical and cannot be replaced by shorts even if they are the only one replaced.

Thank you for explaining the basics with regards to what the "beeps" actually indicate.

I have replaced the fine wires with the 15.2 ohm resistors I got off a dead set of DDR4 memory and the memory is working well.

Have understood that I got away with bridging those two sections without damaging anything and that it is not a recommended means of troubleshooting though I used the tools I had available to me.

"When I test if the resistor is a short with my multimeter it indicates with a beep that it is a short. "

The beep doesnt mean "short" it means a low resistance connection.
If the resistor was hooked up in series it can basicly never be a "short"

"When I removed said resistor and measure the resistance I get a reading of 15.2 ohms."

Normally you would measure through the resistor BUT that would only work if its the lowest resistance in the electrical path where you put your multimeter.
Since the resistor is not there anymore you basicly measure the resistance through a different path, the measurement has no value here because you basicly dont know what you are measuring (dont know the path its taking and dont know the electrical circuit by drawing or head)

"When I test if the resistor is a short with my multimeter it indicates with a beep that it is a short."

Not necessary a "short" Its a low resistance connection.
The meter would beep on a 0.5 or 1.5 Ohm resistance to.
A resistor of 0.5 ohm ofcfourse is not by default a "short"

"But when I Google as to what is accepted as a short the general value is agreed to be between 1 to 2 ohms."

False, like said before a resistor of 1 ohm is not by default a "short"

Shorting a circuit happens when a +, L, Phase makes direct connection to a minus, 0 and/or PE (Protected Earth)


I know this doesn't help to get your card fixed though.... sorry

As a novice I had to ask others what these ICs were and was told that I should measure the resistance to identify what it is.

As Asmodian has already explained what the "beep" signifies are you just going into more detail to make it clear to me as from what you have said it sounds the same as Asmodian explanation ?

1 to 2 ohm is not a short as there is resistance though I simply typed

"how many ohms is a short"

As you can see the results these are all wrong and that's why you are saying "false" ?!?

Oh and maybe you missed it I fixed the RAM using the fine wire, which has been replaced now with the 15.2 ohm resistors

Thanks for all your help and explanations

 

[kiriakos]

Well as I am not an electronics specialist (why would I ask such basic questions if I was) I do not have access to reverse polarity pulse equipment but thanks for informing me that as an amateur a multimeter is of no use.

Seeing that the distributor for Viper products in Europe (Patriot Memory BV) ignored my question regards different revisions of the same model number product I very much doubt they are going to answer my question asking the part-code of said resistor.

Distributors cannot help, they lack awareness of such topics.
Contact the factory, do not play the smart one, just ask their help about resistor component values.
Clean the PCB from your monkey work with the sorts and take a picture so to share it with the factory.
If you have and the RAM retail packaging and serial number, this is even better.

 

[Asmodian]

Contact the factory, do not play the smart one, just ask their help about resistor component values.
Clean the PCB from your monkey work with the sorts and take a picture so to share it with the factory.

Why would they do any of that? They already fixed their memory with a resistor that is very close, if not the same, as the original. And it worked before with just a wire, so the exact resistance is obviously not critical in this case.

Monkey work?! So only you can do things properly? Everyone else is too dumb to do anything right. And they have to ask the factory, who will definitely be willing to help and give out part codes, because no one else can know and it is impossible to measure it with a normal meter, because reasons.

There is a kernel of truth there, it is hard to accurately measure low resistance values. However, 15.2 oms isn't that low so even bringing this issue up is a pointless "you are not good enough" flex.

 

[mongoled]

Distributors cannot help, they lack awareness of such topics.
Contact the factory, do not play the smart one, just ask their help about resistor component values.
Clean the PCB from your monkey work with the sorts and take a picture so to share it with the factory.
If you have and the RAM retail packaging and serial number, this is even better.

1/ As if the factory is going to respond to an "anonymous" person asking regards the ohms of an SMD on a stick of RAM, you live in the real World ?
2/ If I was going to "play the smart one" would I be posting here ??
3/ Not bad for some "monkey work" using just a soldering iron, flux and lots of sunlight

Could not find any 0.6 mm resistors from my "graveyard" collection, the GSkill ones are 1 mm (15.2 ohms) and have done the job.

First pic of PCB is where I removed the 0.6 mm resistor from a good stick of Viper Steel 4400 mhz to see if I got a C5 error as with the "dead" stick when attempting to post with the stick of RAM missing said resistor and it did.

Second PCB is a little messy and is the stick I originally knocked off two SMDs and partially de-attached one SMD, here I have resoldered three 1 mm SMDs and one 0.6 mm SMD, unfortunately the 0.6 mm is a little wonky but im not going to attempt to straighten it as everything is working correctly.

 

[mongoled]

Why would they do any of that? They already fixed their memory with a resistor that is very close, if not the same, as the original. And it worked before with just a wire, so the exact resistance is obviously not critical in this case.

Monkey work?! So only you can do things properly? Everyone else is too dumb to do anything right. And they have to ask the factory, who will definitely be willing to help and give out part codes, because no one else can know and it is impossible to measure it with a normal meter, because reasons.

There is a kernel of truth there, it is hard to accurately measure low resistance values. However, 15.2 oms isn't that low so even bringing this issue up is a pointless "you are not good enough" flex.

Hey, we are just "balanced" individuals



Of course not everyone can be the same

 

[kiriakos]

because reasons.

1000 Euro in cash at my PayPal account, this is how much it worth this answer.

 

[Asmodian]

1000 Euro in cash at my PayPal account, this is how much it worth this answer.

Very convincing.

This stuff is not hard to learn if one is motivated and there are plenty of free resources to access for the information required. There are all sorts of interesting effects in electronics, and it can get very complicated doing accurate measurements with very low resistance values and at very short timescales. However, the 15.2 ohm resistor replacement on a stick of memory relevant to this thread isn't impacted by any of these issues, obviously, so I don't know why you think anyone in this thread would find your explanation of any value, except perhaps as an interesting aside.

 

[kiriakos]

This stuff is not hard to learn if one is motivated and there are plenty of free resources to access for the information required.

Nop.
You better start to adore your teachers, they know more than Google.