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Can you help me, my mouse changes in responsiveness when I move it over the crumbs I've left on my mat, and worse its not exactly the same over a fray as it is over a worn in smooth spot. Im pretty sure G-Hub is summoning specters that move my mouse faster or slower depending on how they feel and what they've eaten. Your own physical movement speed will never be exactly the same one moment to the next, basically none of the threads in your mat will be exact down to an atom and nothing is ever perceived exactly the same twice, this is equal doses of placebo, confirmation bias and observer effect.. its normal, move on. Seriously all of these threads read like schizophrenia and I genuinely hope you manage to find the help you need, whatever the case may be. Please, honestly.. talk to someone because this behavior is concerning.
 
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Around 1% of the Overclock.net population has now figured out 1% of what I've said 10 years ago:



In another 10 years, someone will discover that if you have programs like Battle.net + Diablo 3 installed - if they don't even have a process running - they all bring similar negatives. Does it make sense? No. But that's the way Windows is coded.
I wouldn't be surprised if you were right about ghub having an impact (although it doesn't seem to be a big problem, or more people would have reported on that one). Plenty of times did people find bugs and issues with different software and especially Windows. Like you quoted me, i have tested software in the past seeing the different results in dpc latency and polling behaviour. So i am all up for findings that might help Logitech to improve their software, when they receive feedback.

But you should consider to provide some data with your findings, then people wouldn't have to be smart enough to figure out what you said. They can just look at a chart, and see empirical data that proves your findings (which would be hard to deny for anyone). But trying to sell claims like "g-hub permanently destroys mouse response" without any data to back it up based on feelings alone i can understand some of the skepticism.

It was the same with when the ultra low latency mode got introduced. People instantly claimed it is so much better and others claimed it was so much worse. But both sides were arguing with what they personally perceived without any data to back their claims up. Then Battlenonsense made this video and cleared things up.

https://youtu.be/7CKnJ5ujL_Q?t=365

This is basically how it should be done.
 
Can you help me, my mouse changes in responsiveness when I move it over the crumbs I've left on my mat, and worse its not exactly the same over a fray as it is over a worn in smooth spot. Im pretty sure G-Hub is summoning specters that move my mouse faster or slower depending on how they feel and what they've eaten. Your own physical movement speed will never be exactly the same one moment to the next, basically none of the threads in your mat will be exact down to an atom and nothing is ever perceived exactly the same twice, this is equal doses of placebo, confirmation bias and observer effect.. its normal, move on. Seriously all of these threads read like schizophrenia and I genuinely hope you manage to find the help you need, whatever the case may be. Please, honestly.. talk to someone because this behavior is concerning.
While I vehemently disagree with r0aches opinion on the cause of such things (Windows Shell Integration) the things he speaks of are real, and I as well as others have seen them all. I am fully aware that tiny inconsistencies on the mouse pad and your own movement will always have minor variances that affect the way your mouse tracking displays on screen. That being said what we and others are experiencing is vast differences in the latency and behaivor of the mouse cursor to where we are moving it. This is a real problem and there is definitely something to it. I really do not blame you thinking were crazy as r0ach is certainly not right in the head and the problem itself seems entirely absurd. Despite that there are many of us experiencing these exact issues and more. The changes in cursor tracking (latency, speed, acceleration) are drastic when changing unrelated Windows settings, moving cables around, and a host of other things.
 
I actually made some progress on this issue. You know how when you boot Win 8.1 from a cold boot the mouse cursor is already on the screen? Then if you hit reset you boot with no cursor on the screen until you move the mouse? I get much more consistent results (but still not deterministic) by running mouse software after a cold boot when the cursor is already on the screen at the start. Each time I load the mouse software this way, the result will be at least 'okay' and bearable, whereas loading the mouse software off a soft reset will give you much bigger variations in cursor sensitivity, dead zone, and everything else.

There's probably something bad post-Win7 OS's are doing initing the mouse at start on soft resets. I wouldn't be surprised if Win7 doesn't have these problems because as I recall, Win7 inits the mouse the same on both a cold boot and soft reset with the cursor always on the screen already. I gave up screwing with G-Hub and used LGS for this test. There's a further complication to this issue because I have two Win 8.1 PCs right next to each other and on one the cursor is already on the screen on a cold boot but NOT the other (the good results I got are on the PC that already has the cursor up on cold boots).

Since newer OS's have stupid behavior like this, I think mice companies really need to go driverless, as you still won't be able to get the mouse to feel exactly how it came from the factory.
None of these things happen with PS/2 mice (assuming the motherboard has a PS/2 port), right?
Or are motherboards with PS/2 ports just using USB emulation instead of a true interrupt based signal?
 
r0ach, mouse and keyboard drivers are set to load on demand at least in latest windows (when pnp asks for them) which makes them load at different times theoretically, try setting them to always load at boot instead to see if it changes what you were mentioning (soft/cold boot)

sc config kbdclass start=boot
sc config mouhid start=boot
 
Discussion starter · #67 ·
Meh, cancel last post. I've made zero progress attempting to get any form of deterministic settings from the mouse softare no matter what. From now on just never going to install any mouse software ever again to turn off the god forsaken, eye damaging, RGB lasers they install in every mouse now. Will just open the things and clip the cords. Once you install the software, your mouse has permanent AIDS and you need a new one because it's never going to feel like it did pre-software install from the factory.
 
i see why I've never had issues.

I don't do Blizzard products, & I don't install mouse software = no wonder I'm MLG.

yes, open & clip. G-suite doesn't even handle firmware flashing, right? soooo worthless
 
Discussion starter · #70 · (Edited)
Just saw a 2017 post of someone that noticed the same issue where after loading mouse software it NEVER feels the same again like how it shipped from the factory:

anyone know if its possible to reflash the g pro? i feel like ive played with too many settings and it doesnt feel right anymore
Seems legit:

Our products are not intended to be opened/serviced
 
Look for a datasheet on the IC that's used to store the firmware, and use a Raspberry Pi or something to flash a fresh firmware to it. You could even try reverse engineering Logitech's software to see what addresses it writes to and then write your own app to write custom values. Could slap a probe on the USB cable to grab all the data being sent.
 
Look for a datasheet on the IC that's used to store the firmware, and use a Raspberry Pi or something to flash a fresh firmware to it. You could even try reverse engineering Logitech's software to see what addresses it writes to and then write your own app to write custom values. Could slap a probe on the USB cable to grab all the data being sent.
Might as well build your own mouse at that point.
 
Of what use would that be? Do you have any alternative firmware?
well, they tend to revise things like battery life thru firmware revisions, but the best was to preserve battery life is to just crack em' open & disable the LEDs.

my point was, I was under the impression that would be available in ghub, so when i saw it wasn't, & that LED profiles are software driven, I removed G-hub, reformatted, & manually disabled the blinky via snippy.

Just saw a 2017 post of someone that noticed the same issue where after loading mouse software it NEVER feels the same again like how it shipped from the factory:



Seems legit:
maybe G-hub auto-applies firmware updates then. I'd have to actually give a damn to prove that though.

like thru the G9xx patch list over its lifetime. They've done more than just revise blinky for battery life.
 
There should be a rule against posting "<x> DESTROYS mouse [latency/polling/behavior]!" without providing proof of your statements via latency testing, mousetester, etc. Anything else is literal superstition that just clogs up the forum.
 
you also can't build a mouse on pixie dust & tech-superstition.

That was your 69th reply
oop, better retire to off-topic only. keep that 4ever.

i'm nearly half way to my goal, before retiring to 100% Off topic.
 
Discussion starter · #80 ·
There should be a rule against posting "<x> DESTROYS mouse [latency/polling/behavior]!" without providing proof of your statements via latency testing, mousetester, etc. Anything else is literal superstition that just clogs up the forum.
It's actually the mouse tester charts themselves that are useless. Like the example today of how I saw people making illogical changes trying to force things into MSI mode that aren't even supposed to be like sound cards. I tested out MSI mode for every single device to see if there would be any improvement for mouse handling with any of them and they were all bad. The only thing you would likely want to force MSI mode on is network card, but most already are by default.

But guess what? Even though putting the sound card into MSI mode gave me an uncontrollable, pixel-skipping feeling cursor that you would come in last in any game with, it could possibly come ahead in some sort of useless mouse tester graph. What's the point? The charts show almost nothing of use besides if your polling rate is unstable or SRAV. But even for SRAV, the current Endgame XM1 firmware feels WAY less linear in mouse movement than either the 3366 or AM010, but does it even fail an SRAV test? Probably not.
 
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