HD5870 Voltmod Issues...

uk3k · Feb 18, 2012

Hi there,
first i want you to excuse my poor english skills but i got some questions that only here in this Forum may be answered.

I'm running a Sapphire HD5870 Custom Card (Blue PCB) and a XFX 5870 XXX ZNDA in Crossfire and are kind of stuck in my overclocking efforts.
Just because i've been out of luck another time, both cards are very unclockable running stock voltages, so finaly i got both of them voltmoded:
-The XFX Card is flashed with the latest MSI R5870 Lightning BIOS so i am able to adjust voltage in MSI Afterburner
-for the Sapphire Card i'm using a Pencil-Mod, wich pushed voltage up to 1.275-1.35V, depending on load

All measuring is done with a digital 4.5 digit multimeter direct connected to the card(s)

Yesterday all stuff was fine, i was able to clock up to 950MHz on both cards, using 1.190V on the XFX and playing BF3 for hours. Only the temperatures on the XFX raised up to nearly 90° Celsius so i bought a Arctic Accelero Xtreme and mounted it today. Now temperatures are all fine(63°C/69°C) on both cards, but i ran into new problems today:

When i raise the voltage for the XFX in AB, i always have to measure if its apllied, just because very often the new voltages aren't applied and i have to change in AB from User-mode to Kernel-mode and back or change from 1.125 to 1.165Vcore Type to get it work. That's very annoing because this needs everytime a AB-Restart and sometimes even a system reboot. Also it occours that the voltage is being resetet while on load so my graphics driver chrashes and is beeing reseted by windows.
Additional AB is not very reliable about the applied voltages, sometimes it applies 1.3V or more even when only 1.2V is considered....

So first question is:
Is it possible to get a lasting software voltmod for the XFX? I allready tried a modified BIOS using RBE and setting voltage to 1.25V, but this does'nt apply.
Would it be possible to flash a ASUS-BIOS to use another (more relieable) tool than Afterburner?
Or do i have to hardmod to the XFX-Board too? I'm not that fan of soldering on tiny graphiccard contacts, so a pencilmod or different tools would be welcome

Second question i got:
I figured out, that my bf3-perfomance increases drastically when i oc the memory from 1200MHz to 1250MHz or more when GPUs are clocked to 950MHz. This results in smooth 50FPS+ and stable 99% GPU-usage without any stuttering on both GPUs. but it won't last very long and i get a BSOD depending on atikmpag.sys, think that points to an unstable videomemory? Am i right about that?

Hopefully i could determine my problems

System configuration:

Asus M4A79 Deluxe
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T @ 4.0GHz @ 1.5V(BIOS) ~45°C max after 10 Hours Prime95 FFTs + 3DMark 06 Loop; Air-cooled by Noctua ND-D14 using 2xScythe Fans @ 190m²/h
2x2GB/2x1GB; Totally 6GB DDR2-800 @ 833MHz
XFX 5870 XXX ZNDA 1024MB @PCI-X 16x; Air-cooled by Arctic Accelero Xtreme 5870-->Primary CF-Card
Sapphire 5870 Custom Blue PCB @PCI-X 16x; Air-cooled by Sapphire Vapor-X --> Second CF-Card
3x Samsung Syncmaster 22" Eyefinity @ 5176x1050px
Chieftec CFT-750-14C 750W PSU
Antec Three Hundred Case
OCZ Vertex 2E 60GB System-HD
Samsung Spinpoint S-ATAII 500GB 7200rpm Data-HD
X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty PCI Sound-Card

Software:

Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1; all Updates
AMD Catalyst 12.1 WHQL clean installation
AMD CAP 2 12.1
MS Security Essentials
Logitech Gaming Software
MSI Afterburner 2.2 Beta 12 (had even more problems using 2.1 final)

Would be very happy if there is anybody with some useful suggestions.

best regards

CL3P20 · Feb 19, 2012

have you looked into OCP mod for your GPU/PCB type? ... pushing voltage and speed can bring OCP much sooner than expected sometimes.. Inductor temps can affect it also.

*FYI- pencil mods are not that precise.. are you measuring your mods with Digital Multi Meter? Or you relying on software for voltage readings?

uk3k · Feb 19, 2012

Erm, it's kind of triggy to find matching tutorials, as my Sapphire card uses the same? PCB as the 5830 i think:
Just borrowed a few pictures from the radeon3D forum as my own camera isn't that good in taking close-up pictures:
http://s7.directupload.net/images/110627/g7vbhtj2.jpg
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2569/u3etl5tt_jpg.htm
http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2569/pipmfruw_jpg.htm

Actually my Sapphire card looks that way, soldered some measuring lines for multimeter, just because i can't reach this pins when the card is build into my pc:

The Pencil mod i've done is based upon this tutorial:

Mesured resistance before adding graphite:
~5.95kOhm
After "painting"
~4.75kOhm
Voltage increased from 1.2V to about 1.275-1.35V depending on load. As i allready sad, all measuring on both! cards is done by my digital multimeter, just because i allready haven't found a tool that shows the correct voltages:

About OCP...Please forgive the dumb question but it's built in Over Current Protection, isn't it? How can i figure out if it's limiting? Tryed to google it but got no useable results

Would be nice if you could give some advise about that

For my XFX: I'll try to take some close-up pictures from the PCB-Backside, maybe then someone could help me out about a OCP Mod...

Inductor Temps? I suppose it's about the temperatures of the voltage regulators? Is there a way to read those temps via software?

thx in advance

uk3k · Feb 19, 2012

Here we go...As i said my camera sucks when taking close-up shots xD
XFX 5870 XXX ZNDA Backside of PCB:

Measuring Heavy Load (MSI Kombustor); voltage in AB set to 1.225V!!!

Measuring Idle/Desktop:

Left multimeter connected to Sapphire card, right multimeter connected to XFX card.

So anyone some ideas about OCP on both cards?

greets

CL3P20 · Feb 19, 2012

Well since you are using DMM's.. you should be able to see OCP if its happening... GPUv would go to .003v with solid screen and would take reset to correct.

**As for the XFX:

the OCP pin is labeled IMAX .. you can pencil the resistor its connected to lower OCP.

Im not sure about the IC on the Sapphire GPU.. couldnt make it out from the pic

Not sure about the crashes... though if its not OCP, you may think of trying a different driver rev. Have you grabbed the latest copy of AB to use as well?

uk3k · Feb 19, 2012

thx for the info, i'll check that. May the reset cause a driver depending BSOD?

"lower OPC" means to raise the threshold of maximum current?

I'm running MSI Afterburner 2.2 Beta 12, this is the latest version i've found.

Got another Question

The marked resistor is the penciled one on the Sapphire PCB. To do an alternative "real" hardmod could it be simply replaced by a 10kOhm potentiometer?

btw, the IC on the Sapphire board should be this one: http://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/315811/ONSEMI/NCP5395T/217/1/NCP5395T.html
But theres no IMAX-Pin?

well, let's try to get a crash, will post results

Update 1: Tried to force a crash using 980MHz in Crysis Timedemo Benchmark, game simply "disapears" after about the half of the timedemo, had to kill the process in taskmanager. Figured out that one gpu keeps on 100% load, about 1 minute later BSOD -->atimpag.sys occours but theres no voltage drop below load-voltages. Think OCP isn't responsible...

I'm gona try some different drivers....I s there a Catalyst Version someone could advise?

Update 2: Tried several drivers, results:
CCC 11.3c --> crashes when clocks are set higher than 925MHz in Crysis TD, Desktop freezes after reboot
CCC 11.12 --> crashes when clocks are set higher than 925Mhz in Crysis TD, Desktop freezes after reboot
CCC 12.2(8.94) --> crashes when clocks are set higher than 850MHz when Crysis TD starts, Desktop freezes after reboot
CCC 12.3(8.95) --> instant freeze after adjusting clocks of gpu or memory in AB

So i'm back on using CCC12.1, getting 950MHz GPU + 1270MHz Memory clocks stable in Crysis TD but running into Gamecrash (DX Device Removed error) after some time running BF3. Error occours sometimes after 1 minute, sometimes game runs fine for over 2 hours.

Can't believe 950MHz is all i can get...Also memory clocks suck, the XFX was clocked by manufacturer to 875/1300MHz but those settings never were stable, not even in single gpu mode.

But back to my problem:
Is there a way to softmod the voltages on my XFX so im not forced to use tools?
May i flash an EAH5870 BIOS to try iTracker? Got the strange feeling all the time somethings strange with AB....
Should i give the OCP-Mod a try?

CL3P20 · Feb 20, 2012

Lots to respond to.. I will do my best not to confuse you.

*For Sapphire - You would be attaching the 10k potentiometer to the marked resistor... not replacing. To do OCP mod on NCP5395 - lower resistance on 'ROSC'. Somewhere between 20-40% of stock value at 'ROSC' will offset ILIM and move IMON for OCP

.

As for the 'flashing' - I would say definite NO: as both of the cards have different IC's for power control. Your best bet is to hardmod and set voltage manually.

Schmuckley · Feb 20, 2012

I wanna pencil mod my 5870! ..but I have a different pcb

my chip says vcf986 and p6213AJ

Drewmeister · Feb 20, 2012

I'm able to adjust vGPU up to 1.3v on my stock non-reference XFX HD 5850 ZAFC v1.3 using Sapphire Trixx v0.4.21. Btw, that's the only version of Trixx that allows vGPU adjustment on my card. Special thanks to K31TH3R over at EOCF for providing the link. http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=349730&highlight=trixx

CL3P20 · Feb 20, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmuckley

I wanna pencil mod my 5870! ..but I have a different pcb

my chip says vcf986 and p6213AJ

your IC is this one... trace out the 'FB' pin to its nearest resistor

up6213.pdf 510k .pdf file

EduFurtado · Feb 20, 2012

IMO that voltage for the sapphire card on stock cooling is WAY too much. And you shouldn't need more than 1,3v for 950 on the clock

You could have controlled it's voltage throught sapphire TRIXX software, no need to pen mod it.

As for the XFX, I wouldn't flash it because you might actually damage the card if you flash it to a model that works completly different

Schmuckley · Feb 20, 2012

ty cl3p

uk3k · Feb 21, 2012

thanks for replies

About Trixx: I've tried ALL! versions available on sapphire's website and the unofficial beta 4.21 but with no one voltage adjustment is working for me so the pencil mod was necassary to raise the voltage. Also i still think there are no programmable voltage regulators that would allow software side changes on gpu voltage on non reference sapphire cards.

About the Asus flash: It was just a question just because the BIOS of the MSI card was also possible

@Drewmeister: Since i'm running the MSI BIOS on my XFX card i allready can set voltages using afterburner, as i wrote above: when i'm using trixx i can't but thanks for the tip. maybe it helps someone else.

@CL3P20: Lot's of thanks for your advise. Just because something went terribble wrong while testing all the AMD drivers(Desktop freezes after every reboot when eyefinity was enabled) i reinstalled my windows today. I'm gonna check overclocking abilities now again and respond here when i'm done.
About hardmodding the sapphire card: To raise the voltage i had to lower the resistance of the right resitor. This was done by adding graphite on its surface. When i solder a 10k potentiometer parallel to the ressitor the resulting resistance would be to low and i'd toast my gpu.
According to my measurement things are that way:
original resistance: 5.95kOhm -->1.2V
lowered resistance to 4.75kOhm --> 1.3xV

@EduFurtado: I may be all alone with my opinion but i think a cooling solution is always suitable as long components doesn't become to hot. Even if it's a stock cooler. Target clocks are around 1GHz, so i'll need high voltages and maybe another cooler for the sapphire card but i don't want to spend lots of money for a high end cooler as long as i don't know if the gpu(s) will reach those clocks.

CL3P20 · Feb 22, 2012

*you would need to clean off pencil mod first.. then solder ... voltage control is much more stable with VR and you dont have to worry about volts "moving" over time as pencil wears off.

uk3k · Feb 22, 2012

it's obvious that i'd have to clean the penciled resistor but soldering a trimmer parallel would be to much!

Just calculate it: R=(1/R1)+(1/R2)
resistor only-->5.95kOhm
resistor-pot(10kOhm) parallel--> 0.268kOhm
resistor-pot(5kOhm) parallel --> 0.368kOhm
resistor-pot(1kOhm) parallel --> 1.1.68kOhm
-->very huge ammount of voltage^^

That's why i think replacing would be the better solution...Or is there a mistake in my calculations?

Actual progress in my efforts: seems running 950MHz is stable @ 1.3V using CCC 12.3(8.95) Pre-Certified and AB 2.2 Beta 14 but figured out there's something weird with my memory...driver instant crashes when i raise memory clocks, no matter if i add 1 or 100MHz. So the fresh windows installation seems to be helpful but denies any memory tuning :-(

Priority is raising GPU clocks so i'm going to check if it's possible to go above 950MHz...

Update: Tried 975MHz, causes gamecrash when running Crysis TD. Still not sure wich of both cards is limiting :-(
Maybe anyone has got an idea:
GPU 1: Voltage drops from load value to idle value, GPU load drops to zero
GPU 2: Voltage value stays at load value and GPU keeps on 100% load in AB monitoring
OCP-Mod ftw?

CL3P20 · Feb 23, 2012

if stock resistance is already 5k ohms.. you would need a 100k to hard mod... not 10k

VR = 20x stock 'R'

uk3k · Feb 24, 2012

got the feeling we're talking not about the same resistor

There's this one resistor that has to be penciled to lower it's resistance. Lower resistance means higher voltage. It's stock resistance is 5.95 kOhm so it has to been replaced by an 10kOhm trimmer. When it's done restistance can be lowered with the potentiometer below 5.95KOhm so voltage increases.

Actually i've decided to accept my 950Mhz, had some OCP resets running higher voltages on the XFX card. When there are new Kepler chips available i'll continue right here but until then i won't go any further like OCP mods.

I'd like to thank you all for your advise

best regards

CL3P20 · Feb 24, 2012

lowering resistance always = higher voltage [only in rare cases is there reverse FB mod where decreasing resistance = decreased voltage]

If you resistor is 5.9k ohms at stock... you DO NOT need to replace it at all.

You CAN solder a 100k ohm resistor inline and you will have the ability to set stock value again... or go lower for increased power output.

*The formula for calculating any VR size for a mod is as follows:

[stock resistance *20 = starting resistance for VR size ]

That said - you will fry your GPU using a 10k resistor/trimmer... as this will NOT be sufficient resistance when in line.

**Remember - you are not measuring the resistance of that actual resistor - you are measuring the total resistance of the circuit with that resistor inline. If you use 10k you will be sorry..

uk3k · Feb 26, 2012

Got it now, thanks for your patience. Didn't had in mind that the whole circuit is measured.

To get a summary for further work in a few weeks/months depending on Nvidia's success with Kepler performance chips...Just don't want to f*ck up my cards as long as there is no really faster alternative available...those HD7970 are much to expensive atm as i need two of them to run my eyefinity setup properly xD

For the Sapphire card(pic also borrowed from radeon3d.org) OCP + VGPU mod:

For the XFX card OCP mod:

Is this correct now?
Where to hard mod for VGPU increase on the XFX card using a VR?

HD5870 Voltmod Issues...

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