Perfect RAM Timing Rule (Posting Resuts Of Using The Rule Is Appreciated)

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Jan 18, 2015

I was uploaded it years ago 12-18-13

Orignally From another overclocking website
Conversation can be OFFENSIVE
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/741122-Perfect-Ram-Timing-Rule

Posting negative results are also appreciated, as it will tell us that the rule is Wrong

I recomend using this rule when you are overclocking so hard that all of your timings needs to be changed to increace overcloking freedom

Rule applies to any DDR RAM (DDR1,2,3,4)

Spoiler is to keep record of the old version posted. Ignore it cause it is wrong.

You can also try with stock ram frequency and keep the CL same but use the rule

My oppinion
Stock clocks and stock CL but using the rule will allow the RAM to operate with less error and run more smooth
Giving increace in performance (ignoring that it can be slower in bench marks)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/741122-Perfect-Ram-Timing-Rule

Keep in mind lower numbers means higher ram performance

CL depends on your ram performance

You can single clock down CL for quick RAM tune up
leaving everything else stock

1T will give higher performance
2T will give higher RAM frequency
3T will give higher RAM frequency

Find the balance between 1T or 2T memory clock capability giving you best performance

1. TRAS=TCL+TRCD+TRP

2.TRC=TRAS+TRCD Or Tras+TRP Or Tras +CL

3.TWR=TRTP+TCL Or TRTP+TRCD

4.TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR (TWR which stays the same with the twr rule TRTP+TRCD)

5.Ratio Rule for TCL-TRCD-TRP is 9-10-8 (Cl Lowest-TRCD Highest-TRP Middle)

6.Ratio Rule for TFAW (Back Timings) TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP (TRRD lowest, TWTR mid low, TCWL mid high TRTP highest)
Which TRRD is simular to CL which decides the RAM operating speed

7.Decreacing TRC and TRAS by -1 to -20 can increase ram write performance
Depending on how much it can take

Normally manufacture uses -3 TRC and TRAS

8.Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed

(TFAW timing rule hasn't been tested in overclocking yet, this is only an test theory which I will use in overclocking my RAM on the fxa990 gd80 msi
I also need to check by looking at the ram timing setting avalible in my FXA990 GD80 MSI before I can be fully sure that it is right for the back timings
Also I need to upload a ram timing table screen shot of my MSI BIOS later on)

Recomended Rule to use
TRAS=CL+TRCD+TRP

TRC=TRAS+TRP

TWR=TRTP+TRCD

TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR

Depending on RAM module it will only operate on certain Row Refresh Cycle frequencys, there are 2 or 4 ramtimings for this,80ns, 160NS or 300NS or 350NS (DDR3 RAM)
Example 1600 RAM runs on 160NS, 2400RAM will not run below 300NS even at 1600 speeds
You will want to try out 300NS or higher when your overclocking FSB allot. As you may be able to break your FSB barrarier by setting this higher.

For 1T2T timings, you will need to set it at 2T for high FSBS, unless it operates with the FSB clocked.
Again setting 2T or 3T or higher can break your max FSB barrier

Using CL ratio rule and back timing ratio rule
Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed

For back timing Twr and TRRD is bascally simular thing to CL and you need to read before you write
Meaning that trrd must run faster than twr

RAM speed can be modeled by CL divided by MHZ, lower numbers result in faster RAM
10/2400=0.00416
8/2133=0.00375, which means CL8 2133 is faster than Cl10 2400

For fastest ram speeds, aim for lowest CL and lowest TWTR and TRRD
Lower CL means faster RAM, lower numbers means faster timmings.

Tras= CL+TRCD+TRRD

TRP= your RAM speed Example 2400RAM will need a setting of 12 or higher
2133 will Need a setting of 11
Thus 13X2=26X100=2600, therefore to run 2600 RAM this timing must be 2600 Or higher
(note that TRCD shouldn't be smaller than TRP, it should be equal or higher)
You should increace TRCD when small amounts of stabibility is needed, because the speeds are to fast for the ram to handle. You can also manually add 1 clock to TRAS and TRFW, therefore stabibility will increace, as there is a 1 clock or more delay for stuff to finish before going onto next step

TRC= TRAS+ TRCD
You need to have a certian number of TRAS and TRFC to run certain frequencies, you may want to leave it as cl+2X tTRCD then try CL+TRCD+TRRD(EG the 2400 tidrent X needed 30-42 minimum to run stalbe)

TRRD Must Be smaller than TWTR, Typically TWTR should be 1 click higher than TRRD
TRRD= 20
TWTR=21
(These are bascally read write time CL Depping on how much your RAM can take, the lower you can set it the faster it is)

TWR =Manually specify for performance, Typically 2clocks higher than TRRD should be the fastest setting. Depends on how fast your ram can run.
Typically the minimum TRTP setting on a DDR3 RAM is 5 clocks, unless you BIOS mod you cannot go lower. As the name implies Time Read To Precharge and Time Wrte to Load, it is the diffrence in your TRRD and TWTR timming compared with TWR For DDR3 a typical TWR setting is TRRD+TWTR=TWR

TWL= TWR minus Twtr
TRTP= TWR minus TRRD
TFAW=TWR+TRRD

Typically, If your CL can be set at CL7, your TRRD should be able to run at 5 or lower.
It is best to have TWTR one click lower than CL ( TWTR at 6).
TRRD+TWTR can be even lower when you want a higher OC. But it shouldn't get you far, as your CL timing will be bottle necking your very fast TRRD and TWTR, in terms of stabibility and performance, CL at 20 means your TRRD should be at 18 and TWTR should be at 19

Command Rate depends on your RAM module, Lower numbers are faster
(setting this at 2T or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)

TRFC0,1,2,3,4 Depends on RAM module, lower numbers are faster
(setting this at 350NS or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)

Ram can operate with approximatly a +- 3 timings from optimal timing,
But TRRD must be smaller than TWTR, no tollerance for that. You can try your self and you will find out. make TWTR lower than TRRD and you will not boot up

Refer to image, It is also a example of a perferct 2133 RAM oc setting

http://valid.x86.fr/hf3j77 Vadilation of the system with this timing (Its a Gskill 2400CL10 2X8GB water cooled)

PedroC1999 · Jan 18, 2015

I like this, Bookmarked

bigkahuna360 · Jan 18, 2015

You had many people tell you that your testing methodology was wrong, for good reason too, why do you think it will be any different here?

Alastair · Jan 18, 2015

This guy made a thread earlier stating that somehow he was gonna get some Chinese semiconductor cooperation to build some sort of super CPU he designed that can scale infinitely. I'm not to sure about this guy. He seems like a troll. Time will tell

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Jan 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by PedroC1999

I like this, Bookmarked

Thanks for your support

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair

This guy made a thread earlier stating that somehow he was gonna get some Chinese semiconductor cooperation to build some sort of super CPU he designed that can scale infinitely. I'm not to sure about this guy. He seems like a troll. Time will tell

on 12/16/14Infraction: Trolling (4 points / 90 days) issued by DizZz
Status: Active
Projected Expiry Date: 3/16/15
Forum Post: /t/1530368/i-wanna-design-japanese-cpu-made-in-nec#post_23278424

fragamemnon · Jan 19, 2015

You will appreciate his build log.

Some of this post actually is true, however explanations and reasoning are scarce, often questionable and/or wrong.

Alastair · Jan 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by fragamemnon

You will appreciate his build log.

Some of this post actually is true, however explanations and reasoning are scarce, often questionable and/or wrong.

Looks good. But OP must remember. That if half of his posts end up being troll posts it only makes him half believable. So now while all this looks interesting. Is it true? Does it work? Can people verify? And can OP give practical examples so that we can see how his theories would work in practice?

RyoConstantine · Jan 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz

I was uploaded it years ago 12-18-13

From another overclocking website
Conversation can be OFFENSIVE

I recomend using this rule when you are overclocking so hard that all of your timings needs to be changed to increace overcloking freedom

You can also try with stock ram frequency and keep the CL same but use the rule

My oppinion
Stock clocks and stock CL but using the rule will allow the RAM to operate with less error and run more smooth
Giving increace in performance (ignoring that it can be slower in bench marks)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/741122-Perfect-Ram-Timing-Rule

Keep in mind lower numbers means higher ram performance

CL depends on your ram performance

You can single clock down CL for quick RAM tune up
leaving everything else stock

1T will give higher performance
2T will give higher RAM frequency
3T will give higher RAM frequency

Find the balance between 1T or 2T memory clock capability giving you best performance

1. TRAS=TCL+TRCD+TRP

2.TRC=TRAS+TRCD Or Tras+TRP Or Tras +CL

3.TWR=TRTP+TCL Or TRTP+TRCD

4.TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR (TWR which stays the same with the twr rule TRTP+TRCD)

5.Ratio Rule for TCL-TRCD-TRP is 9-10-8 (Cl Lowest-TRCD Highest-TRP Middle)

6.Ratio Rule for TFAW (Back Timings) TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP (TRRD lowest, TWTR mid low, TCWL mid high TRTP highest)
Which TRRD is simular to CL which decides the RAM operating speed

7.Decreacing TRC and TRAS by -1 to -20 can increase ram write performance
Depending on how much it can take

Normally manufacture uses -3 TRC and TRAS

8.Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed

(TFAW timing rule hasn't been tested in overclocking yet, this is only an test theory which I will use in overclocking my RAM on the fxa990 gd80 msi
I also need to check by looking at the ram timing setting avalible in my FXA990 GD80 MSI before I can be fully sure that it is right for the back timings
Also I need to upload a ram timing table screen shot of my MSI BIOS later on)

Recomended Rule to use
TRAS=CL+TRCD+TRP

TRC=TRAS+TRCD

TWR=TRTP+TRCD

TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR

Using CL ratio rule and back timing ratio rule
Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed

I won't question your other posts and honestly i don't really care about what others might think of you, so consider what i'm saying unbiased.
what are these times? read? write? what cycle of reading or writing? tCL(CAS) or tWR aren't simply the all read or write cycles times so...
in the same bank? in the same rank? under what circumstances? minimum or maximum?
Please be specific, some of rules that you mentioned are INCORRECT, so if possible explain how are you calculating these rules.

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Nov 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyoConstantine

I won't question your other posts and honestly i don't really care about what others might think of you, so consider what i'm saying unbiased.
what are these times? read? write? what cycle of reading or writing? tCL(CAS) or tWR aren't simply the all read or write cycles times so...
in the same bank? in the same rank? under what circumstances? minimum or maximum?
Please be specific, some of rules that you mentioned are INCORRECT, so if possible explain how are you calculating these rules.

Triall and error method. + Reading what others say on ram timing. Like RAM timing guide. (they have rules and what each timing does)

Also new update, Depending on RAM module it will only operate on certain Row Refresh Cycle frequencys, there are 2 or 4 ramtimings for this,80ns, 160NS or 300NS or 350NS (DDR3 RAM)
Example 1600 RAM runs on 160NS, 2400RAM will not run below 300NS even at 1600 speeds

You will want to try out 300NS or higher when your overclocking FSB allot. As you may be able to break your FSB barrarier by setting this higher.

For 1T2T timings, you will need to set it at 2T for high FSBS, unless it operates with the FSB clocked.
Again setting 2T or 3T or higher can break your max FSB barrier

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb205/maffraff/Tweaking/20409-10-10AMDOverdrive.png

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Nov 24, 2015

Update, Timings fixed and I am 100% confident that it is correct

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair

Looks good. But OP must remember. That if half of his posts end up being troll posts it only makes him half believable. So now while all this looks interesting. Is it true? Does it work? Can people verify? And can OP give practical examples so that we can see how his theories would work in practice?

You can go try my timing rule and totally have your timming messed up, as long as that RAM speed isn't too high for the RAM to handle. Using the rule will result in manufactre quality timing, or even better

ldrancer · Nov 24, 2015

which ram is best for x58 overclocking?

this thread cant help itself. only someone, a single person, can retest their setup to compare it against anything.

if noone knows anything about ddr3, i guess ill just use my best guess. which usually gets me the best results.
heres the one thing i know. everyone says, blclk never heard of it, ok? but it cant go past, 200 on this x58 board. any of them. dont know what it means, never heard of it. anyway, thats my goal. 210 is the max anyones said theyve ran. whatever that is, how about doing 4.8ghz? and i dont want to set the ram to 2133 speed from 1600 speed.

ive not tested my ddr2 since i hardly know how to do the overclockign to add anything here. my board also has the whole, mchbar thing locked, which in ddr3 terms, would be like that qpi stuff, i think.
theres lots of ram rules by the way anyway. like the ddr speed, which noone talks about now. like how ive heard a higher ddr2 speed is better, but never seen it proved. by 2-3%. like not actually buying ddr2 1066 and putting it in a 8.5x 440fsb overclocked computer running a 1:1 divider, but runnning it at .. some other changing the ram speed to run at closer to 1066 which is what the speed the ram is SAID to run at. like how theres ddr2 1200 ram. ddr2 800 ram.

why not just buy ddr2 400 and run a 400fsb processor? and dont explain that to me. ive set sdram pc100 ram to pc133 speed, from the processor being overclocked, it overclocked the ram, 20mhz. .. 1.5 years later, it messes up a 5 gig file. 3 times.

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Nov 24, 2015

BclK means FSB same thing diffrent wording
You wouldn't buy a DDR2 800MHZ (400 in CPUZ) and run it on a 400FSB processor, as you will get same performance as running on 50FSB processor and using mulitplier to increace the RAM back to 800MHZ

DDR2 isn't better or anything, it is the CL vs the clock speed you have, when you OC your Dram by 33% in clock speeds, obviously you need to have the correct TRP and TRCD timing to be able to operate wtihout crashing, also you porbally needed more voltage

You can always set your RAM at highest mulitpier or set a 2133 muiltipier, you don't have to increace FSB/blck.
make sure your NB frequency is higher than RAM frequency or equal to at most, or you will not boot. best RAM means the highest MHZ you can get with timings tight, look for lowest numbers CL divide by MHZ, so a CL6 1600 should be better than a 2400 RAM at CL10.

https://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr3/4gbgskillddr3pc3128001600mhzripjawsxseriesforsandybridge68624dualchannelkit.html
this memory rocks 1600 mhz cas 6 is cool , buy when you overclock it , u unlock the power of these rams , 2133 mhz cas 7 @ 1.65v it's insane
awesome price , awesome performance and awesome overclock
Thats faster than my G skill CL10 at 2400 max overclock is only CL8 at 2133
Quote:

Originally Posted by josepi

I remember one time I read something on how to check if ram is faster, better yet like doing a comparison on latency, the CL denotes how many cycles the RAM needs from when it gets request until it's ready to deliver.

So it's something like this:

CL10 / 2450Mhz = 0.0040
CL8 / 2160Mhz = 0.0037

So the CL8 should be faster compared to the 2450, but maybe you need to change the CL of the 2450 to get it stable at that speed.

Did you try to bump the CL a little on the 2450mhz? maybe that's the problem

http://www.overclock.net/t/1580232/2400cl10-or-2160-cl8]

I have fixed up some little plorbem on the timing rule, you may want to recheck the rules.

http://valid.x86.fr/jz016v
Very good results, my max overclock was apprximatly 2070 on this RAM I wasn't able to do 2133at all and I broke the record today, 2070 was at 2.46V and 2133was at 2V

http://valid.x86.fr/jz016v
It broke the 2133 barrarier and boosted all the way upto 2240MHZ, I tried 2300with losser timings but it keept crashing in windows

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/734279-1600RAM-OC-To-2006-With-Crazy-Timings
Oops I meant my max OC was 2006MHZ

ldrancer · Nov 24, 2015

ok, then i dont mean FSB i mean bus.

please explain that to me cause everywhere i go, tired of reading it.. no im not running a ddr2 800 kit of ram on 400fsb 50bus speed processor. this is my question

i can test this tehoery of higher mhz ram speed or tighter timings. this is at 5-5-5-15 and its rated 5-5-5-15 at 1066 mhz freaking ram speed. why i have to say mhz, frequencies bus 3 times i dont know.

ldrancer · Nov 24, 2015

what im talking about is nowhereee in hte bios is it telling you that fsb is 1333, anywhere or 1600, its telling you that your speed is 400mhz. or 800 mhz. they think theyre all smart or some thing. putting a 2 on ddr2 and then giving you a number you have to multiply, lke thats all complicated. and fancy. no its a bunch offf i dont care, how about saying the bus is multiplied.
its not even possible to run ddr2 ram on a 50mhz bus speed processor.

you times ram by 2 to get the speed of the bus of the comptuer or whatever this, front side bus stands for.

ill test it if you give me a configuration. heres what to play with here. 8.5multiplier, 333bus, 2.83ghz stock speed, can hit 3.65ghz and 430mhz bus speed. heres the ram to play with, ddr2 1066 with spd timings of 5-5-5-15 at that speed. in spd it only has 1 other setting it says, 4-4-4-10 at ddr2 667. its voltage is 2.1volts at ddr2 1066.

you see my bios screen there. my voltage and timings are set to 1066 mhz speed. please, test my computer

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Nov 24, 2015

So 1:2 Means that at 400FSB RAM will be at 800MHZ
To run 1066 You should be using 10.6/2=5.3, which means you should tRC-tRP at 5.5 or higher

Easy way is to look at my formulars on what equales to what

http://www.overclock.net/t/1581748/kingston-value-ram-4gb1600-oc-to-2600-cl10-on-air
Some very postive results in using the RAM timing rule, I wasn't actually able to boot at just 2133 Before I worked out a good rule for timing

Try 7-7-7-19-26- 5 TRRD-6 TWTR-9 TWR-4 TRTP-3 TWL-15 TFAW-2T (TRFC1,2,3,4 at 300NS)
If it boots at 1066 then try 6-7-7-18-25 5TRRD-6TWTR-9TWR-4TWTR-3TWL-15TFAW-2T

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Dec 5, 2015

You need to have a certian number of TRAS and TRFC to run certain frequencies, you may want to leave it as cl+2X tTRCD then try CL+TRCD+TRRD(EG the 2400 tidrent X needed 30-42 minimum to run stalbe)
Update

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Jan 23, 2016

RAM speed can be modeled by CL divided by MHZ, lower numbers result in faster RAM
10/2400=0.00416
8/2133=0.00375, which means CL8 2133 is faster than Cl10 2400

For fastest ram speeds, aim for lowest CL and lowest TWTR and TRRD
Lower CL means faster RAM, lower numbers means faster timmings.

Tras= CL+TRCD+TRRD

TRP= your RAM speed Example 2400RAM will need a setting of 12 or higher
2133 will Need a setting of 11
Thus 13X2=26X100=2600, therefore to run 2600 RAM this timing must be 13 Or higher

(note that TRCD shouldn't be smaller than TRP, it should be equal or higher)
You should increace TRCD when small amounts of stabibility is needed, because the speeds are to fast for the ram to handle.
You can also manually add 1 clock or more to TRAS and TRFC, stabibility will increace, as there is a 1 clock or more delay for stuff to finish before going onto next step

TRFC= TRAS+ TRCD
You need to have a certian number of TRAS and TRFC to run certain frequencies, Genrally saying the higher the ram MHZ the higher these numbers will need to be
Example the 2400 tidrent X needed 30-42 minimum to run stalbe when clocked at 2400mhz. stock is 31-43)

TRRD Must Be smaller than TWTR, Typically TWTR should be 1 clock higher than TRRD (You cannot write data untill you read data)
TRRD= 20
TWTR=21
(These are bascally read write time CL. Depping on how much your RAM can take, the lower you can set it the faster it is)

TWR =Manually specify for performance (To higher frequencies this may need to be a certain number)
Depends on how fast your ram can run.
4-5clocks higher than TRRD for DDR4 RAM
3-4clocks higher than TRRD for DDR3 ram
2-3clocks higher than TRRD for DDR2 RAm
1-2clocks higher than TRRD for DDR ram
1-2clocks higher than TRRD for Dram

TRTP and TWLis the diffrence in your TRRD and TWTR timming compared with TWR
TRRD+TRTP=TWR
TWTR+TWL=TWR

TFAW=TWR+TRRD

Typically, If your CL can be set at CL7, your TRRD should be able to run at 5 or lower.
It is best to have TWTR one click lower than CL ( TWTR at 6).

TRRD and TWTR can be even lower when you want more performance.
But it shouldn't get you far, as your CL timing will be bottle necking your very fast TRRD and TWTR settings.
In terms of best stabibility and performance, CL at 20 means your TRRD should be at 18 and TWTR should be at 19

Command Rate depends on your RAM module, Lower numbers are faster
If your ram module and ram chip is designed to run at 2T for stock speeds. Then you must set your ram running at 2T or higher
(setting this at 2T or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)

TRFC0,1,2,3,4 Depends on RAM module, lower numbers are faster
Depends on RAM chip and RAM module, if it is 300NS stock then you must set this at 300 NS or higher
(setting this at 350NS or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)

I picked up quite a few errors in the orignal post. Heres the rule edited and reposted

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Dec 10, 2016

Haven't clocked ram timings for quite a bit of time, refered to my own rule and found this to be wrong
TFAW=TWR+TRRD

Quote:

Correct TFAW=TWR+CL

NIK1 · Dec 10, 2016

I have 4 sticks ddr3 2400 Tridentx with stock timings of 9 11 11 31.. Anyone know if TRAS can go lower with performance gains than my stock 31.The formula posted above says Tras= CL+TRCD+TRRD..Also, does dropping TREFI lower make anything better. Mine is on auto and it has it at 9451 .

Iwamotto Tetsuz · Dec 11, 2016

To drop the tras you'll need to lower your CL,TRRD, TWTR and if you can also lower your TRCD,
The main way to lower TRAS is to lower TRRD and TWTR

https://rog.asus.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-32105.html
TREFI is a ram moduel dependent thing, just like TRFC0,1,2,3,4 which are in ns300,90,160,350.
Don't really think its a performance related thing.

For intel systems either TRAS or TRC would be some high and crasy number and not sure how you translate that from AMD number to intel numbers

Perfect RAM Timing Rule (Posting Resuts Of Using The Rule Is Appreciated)

Iwamotto Tetsuz

PedroC1999

bigkahuna360

Alastair

Iwamotto Tetsuz

fragamemnon

Alastair

RyoConstantine

Iwamotto Tetsuz

Iwamotto Tetsuz

ldrancer

Iwamotto Tetsuz

ldrancer

ldrancer

Iwamotto Tetsuz

Iwamotto Tetsuz

Iwamotto Tetsuz

Iwamotto Tetsuz

NIK1

Iwamotto Tetsuz

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