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Conditioned

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey,

I have RSI, repetitive strain injury, in my mouse hand. For the last 18-24 months or so I have been testing a lot of different things and have gotten a lot better, and I'm still improving. In the process of writing an article about this for a big online publication I came up with a theory that mouse grip can affect the likelihood of RSI manifesting. I'm pretty sure it does affect it, but which grip and how much is still unclear. I'm curious if we can get any data that would dispute or support my theory and would therefore like you to go vote on https://www.strawpoll.me/15887238.


If you are wondering why I'm not stating what my theory is, it's just to prevent any possible bias. I promise I will share it, via the article or here, even if the data shows I was wrong.

Ps. The reason I'm posting this here is because there was a pretty long thread discussing rsi here, so I figure there are more than a few here with this issue.
 
#2 ·
I've had RSI in both forearms since 2010 and over the past 3 years I've spent a lot of time optimizing my workspace both at the office and at home. My injury stems from pure overuse and since it's both arms I can't directly correlate it to the mouse alone. In any case I still voted (hybrid if you want to take away my result since it's not purely mouse-related).

Grip style may affect manifestation/intensity of RSI (claw is probably worst for your health--do I match your theory?) but I can almost guarantee that two other factors are far more important:

1. Workspace setup (including all of the usual ergonomic needs--seated posture, desk height, chair, chair height, monitor height, etc.).

2. Mouse grip width (and I suppose height as well) in relation to the user's hand size. I find that narrower mice cause my RSI to flare up very quickly even after perfecting my setup & posture. My daily driver mouse is the DM1 Pro S. An example of a mouse that I really like, but is too narrow for extended periods of use, would be the Ninox Venator. An example of a mouse that is wide enough but waaaaaay too tall (thus effectively increasing the total distance my hand must "arc") is the G900.

Everybody knows #1 is a thing, of course. #2 seems more closely related to your intended writing so I would be interested to hear thoughts. As an owner of 50+ mice (always chasing "the one") and someone who has lived with RSI for 8+ years I would also be interested in reading your final work, so if you can provide the link once you're finished I would greatly appreciate it.
 
#3 ·
I haven't been diagnosed with RSI but palm gripping a mouse makes my wrist hurt pretty quickly. I wouldn't necessarily say it's due to the grip but due to the fact that my hand makes a "cup" in horizontal (thumb to pinky) direction if my fingers are straight. I think that is the worst you can do. Ideally you would want a wide enough mouse to be able to keep your hand flat in the thumb to pinky axis. If I palm grip FK2 with even a little bit of force (straight thumb and pinky squeezing the mouse), I'll have pain and a weird unpleasant feeling in my hand for a while. Claw gripping with fingers clawed entirely and I have zero issues with most of the mice, unless they are either too wide (Xornet) or too narrow (G Pro) at the grip position.
 
#4 ·
Playing low sens is key to avoiding RSI imo, the more you can get your mouse movements into your arm and out of the wrist the better.
Gripping mouse too hard (perhaps down to unsuitable shape?) also a big culprit.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Update: First, everyone who voted or commented here, thanks and thanks for the feedback!
The numbers are pretty interesting but I don't think they really tell us much about if any grip has increased risk of getting rsi. I imagine that the percentages of which grip is used are pretty much what I would expect an average gamer population would have, but I'm not aware of any study, formal of informal to confirm this. If you are good with statistics, please feel free to weigh in. I guess we could do another poll. What do you think?

With that said, here's my theory. I don't think it's invalidated or validated by the poll. When I learned to type in the 80's we used this huge heavy typewriters. Before we got to start typing we were told to curl the fingers up, in a way imagine you have a ball in your hand so your fingers are curled. Pianists learn the same thing. This makes the fingers being able to generate more power and I think it's fair to say decrease the risk of getting rsi. I swapped from full palm, which I have been using since I got my first computer in -94, to claw. It works better for me, in terms of rsi.
 
#6 ·
I'd be interested in reading this. No RSI for me thankfully. I've encountered pain a couple times working in an office environment and I quickly realized the biggest thing was I was using a mouse that was too small. I just brought an old gaming mouse (DeathAdder) and started using it and made sure I wasn't resting my wrist or arm at awkward/weird angles.

IIRC, In another thread VE5PA (I think I butchered his name and I can't find the @ feature) mentioned he spoke with someone about several mice he owned and they commented on what mice looked the worse to exacerbate things like this. It was someone that seemed legit, but hopefully he sees this thread and can comment. I think you article would succeed the most if you were able to get in touch with a specialist, too.
 
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#7 ·
No RSI for me, 20 years of about 8 hours a day. Use a finger grip with mouse on highest DPI for lowest ammount of movement needed. Use to be like 800dpi when I started out due to the mice. Now use 5000dpi on current mouse.
 
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#8 ·
I had RSI and went thru about 20 different gaming mice before I found the shape that causes no pain for me, so for me the shape is the #1 factor. Overuse will not help but having the FK2 shape my problem is pretty much gone unless I game for 10+ hours a day which I shouldn't be doing regardless.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Conditioned said:
[...] go vote on https://www.strawpoll.me/15887238.

[...]
Click to expand...
I don't know what to vote! I'll try to explain:

I had RSI for a really long time. It's chronic and will never go away for me. It started when QuakeWorld was like food (for the soul) and I had to play it every day. Every second weekend I was meeting up with friends for a small LAN and throughout the week practiced movement and trick jumps and such whenever I couldn't find anyone online. I used both small and large mice, and used all kinds of grips.

The problem is that I don't quite remember how the RSI problems started. It could have been with a Logitech MX300 which is a claw or finger tip grip mouse, or it could have been with the Logitech MX500 which is a palm or claw grip mouse. The only thing I know for sure is that the larger shapes seem to be really bad for me, but I only really learned this years later after trying a lot more mice. The mice with larger, ergonomic shape at first feel really comfortable, but after a while I will always have pretty bad RSI problems. This can also happen with a small shape, but I can usually keep it under control.

Something else that's not in the vote: I have a feeling that lower sensitivity can help with RSI. To keep the RSI under control for myself, over time I developed the idea that it's best to get as many muscles involved as possible. This means, first I have to use finger tip grip so that the fingers can help with movements. For this to work well, the mouse needs to be small enough that my palm does not stick to it too much. Then next I use a sensitivity that's low enough that the wrist can't stay in one place and I am forced to move the arm around.

About my RSI being chronic and never going away, I have it under control through exercise. Stretching exercises for arms, hands usually work very well, but all kinds of other stuff also seems to help for me, including something for strength like push-ups in different variations or visiting the gym and doing strength training there. Most important is that I do something for the body every single day. The RSI always comes back when I get lazy.
 
#10 ·
I've found both too high and too low can cause issue. When I've tried to play at 70-80cm on a desk pad I've ended up triggering it. Luckily my usual sens of 60cm/360 is good on a standard 45cm pad. If I use a desk pad though again that can trigger it. The biggest trigger is browsing on my phone for extended periods. Some thing a need to stop doing. If I do trigger it I usually half my sens to 30cm/360 and that is really helpful. And that's a sens I used for many years before getting in to low sens so I find it easy to use and enjoy the change it makes to my playstyle for a break.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I have minor rsi, but not from mouse gaming. It could be attributed to some build up of mouse gaming and phone texting over the years, but it triggered from bench pressing for me. It does not hurt when I use the mouse, but it did when i first got the injury. Still slightly hurts when I weightlift.

These stretches help: http://www.rsipain.com/stretching-exercises.php

Also this Chinese spray: https://i.imgur.com/lv9EoF9.jpg
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Bucake said:
i don't see how one could even argue against that grip matters.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anyone here do that, but fear not, if someone makes a statement, there is always someone who claims the opposite.

I'm just wondering which one is the best, in terms of rsi. For me personally it's a no brainer. When I switched from palm (hybrid) to claw not only did my rsi improve but I aim better. Ofc I'm only comparing claw and palm because they are the ones I have tested, I'm a bit curious about fingertip though.
 
#16 ·
Grip style: other a relaxed grip with minimal angle in wrist aka most mice are too small for me so I have no palm grip often but I still want knuckle and at best at least thumb and pinky joint grip but most modern mice are not even that large still it's not a finger grip, no fingers or hand curling or cramping up, RSI none.
The trick is not to strain your hand or joints be it from use of your muscle to hold the mouse but also from pressure by gravity on your hand pressing your wrist into table especially over the wrist bones.
And stretching at least sometimes.

If you are having any pains, change a mouse for better/different grip, get proper alignment of table height and distance, if nothing helps use your other hand.
 
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JackCY
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