DDR4 4000 memory and Fallout 4: why does it make a difference?

8051 · Jan 21, 2019

According to this techspot article DDR4-4000 memory makes a 20% difference in minimum FPS over DDR4-3000:

https://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/page3.html

What this means is that there are measurable performance increases w/Fallout 4 from DDR-2400
(https://www.techspot.com/review/1089-fallout-4-benchmarks/page6.html) all the way up to DDR4-4000.

Would this be because the Fallout 4 developers were somehow leveraging the massive memory bandwidth of the PS4 or the ESRAM module in the Xbox One in their codebase?

BroadPwns · Jan 21, 2019

No, it's because Fallout 4 is a garbage game running on a single core while pushing tons of garbate data through memory.

Desolutional · Jan 21, 2019

It's a CPU bottlenecked game which has rubbish asset streaming due to the Victorian game engine it uses, hence the heavy focus on RAM speed. You'll notice that RAR and LMZA don't have such a huge focus on RAM speed even though they are compression algorithms.

mattliston · Jan 21, 2019

Even on my old FX9590 rig, going between 1600mhz and 2666mhz ddr3 ram speeds made a pretty noticeable game "smoothening" effect.

I never looked directly at FPS or frame times, but the game certainly responded quite nicely to optimizing ram and (AMD) northbridge speeds.

This effect is also shared with Skyrim, being FO4 is 98% of the same game engine, minus some improvements OVER the skyrim setup. (old-skyrim, not the DX11 64bit)

Seyumi · Jan 23, 2019

The only problem with 4000mhz+ memory (besides price) is it's a hit or miss if your system will work with it. Even with a $600 motherboard that supports 4400mhz+ memory, a 4266mhz kit I just bought failed to even boot into windows on XMP settings. All the memory companies do is use the same blanket PR statement about factors such as your CPU silicon and "your results may vary" BS. My eyes just ROLL in the back of my head every time there's a news piece about some 9999999mhz memory kit that was just released when I already know that it won't work 99% of the time for anyone if they have a CPU overclock (which is way more important).

I know the major factor for my issue is that I have an overclocked CPU, which has been shown to affect memory speeds/overclocking in a negative way the higher you overclock. I'd rather have faster CPU than Memory. I'm going to try a lesser speed kit and see if I have better luck. I don't think I've ever had luck with a memory hit higher than 3600mhz work on XMP settings with Intels mainstream series (Z170, Z270, Z370, Z390).

Desolutional · Jan 23, 2019

Seyumi said:
The only problem with 4000mhz+ memory (besides price) is it's a hit or miss if your system will work with it. Even with a $600 motherboard that supports 4400mhz+ memory, a 4266mhz kit I just bought failed to even boot into windows on XMP settings. All the memory companies do is use the same blanket PR statement about factors such as your CPU silicon and "your results may vary" BS. My eyes just ROLL in the back of my head every time there's a news piece about some 9999999mhz memory kit that was just released when I already know that it won't work 99% of the time for anyone if they have a CPU overclock (which is way more important).

I know the major factor for my issue is that I have an overclocked CPU, which has been shown to affect memory speeds/overclocking in a negative way the higher you overclock. I'd rather have faster CPU than Memory. I'm going to try a lesser speed kit and see if I have better luck. I don't think I've ever had luck with a memory hit higher than 3600mhz work on XMP settings with Intels mainstream series (Z170, Z270, Z370, Z390).

The issue you describe is silicon lottery on the IMC component of the CPU, it struggles as frequency increases. One way you can counteract that, is by dropping timings at a slightly lower XMP speed, your IMC can handle lower timings easier than higher frequencies, that's how I run my kit on X99. You will have to test your RAM afterwards as always, ideally in a hot room, or by covering the exhaust of your PC case, RAM stability decreases at higher ambient temperature.

The Pook · Jan 23, 2019

Desolutional said:
The issue you describe is silicon lottery on the IMC component of the CPU, it struggles as frequency increases. One way you can counteract that, is by dropping timings at a slightly lower XMP speed, your IMC can handle lower timings easier than higher frequencies, that's how I run my kit on X99. You will have to test your RAM afterwards as always, ideally in a hot room, or by covering the exhaust of your PC case, RAM stability decreases at higher ambient temperature.

The motherboard is the limiting factor in most cases (on recent chips), not the IMC.

tl;dw: wouldn't boot above 3600 on loose timings on one board, new board is good for 4000 CL12

BroadPwns · Jan 23, 2019

Yeah… but only because of cranked up voltage and bypassing a limitation of 1.83V instead of 2V. So it misses the main compatibility issue.

The Pook · Jan 24, 2019

BroadPwns said:
Yeah… but only because of cranked up voltage and bypassing a limitation of 1.83V instead of 2V. So it misses the main compatibility issue.

If the IMC was to blame then more voltage would have done nothing.

BroadPwns · Jan 24, 2019

The Pook said:
If the IMC was to blame then more voltage would have done nothing.

Well, I misunderstood your previous post. I'm asleep.

Desolutional · Jan 24, 2019

The Pook said:
BroadPwns said:

Yeah… but only because of cranked up voltage and bypassing a limitation of 1.83V instead of 2V. So it misses the main compatibility issue.

Click to expand...

If the IMC was to blame then more voltage would have done nothing.

RAM can scale backwards with excessive voltage as well. The IMC has a significant effect on stability, you'll notice this with a subpar IMC on a T-topo ROG board, VCCSA and VCCIO have the most pronounced effects on stability with a weaker IMC. It is a lottery at the end of the day, some win, some lose. Everyone can win with excessive voltage though. Easy way to make things go pop.

bigjdubb · Jan 24, 2019

8051 said:
According to this techspot article DDR4-4000 memory makes a 20% difference in minimum FPS over DDR4-3000:

https://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/page3.html

What this means is that there are measurable performance increases w/Fallout 4 from DDR-2400
(https://www.techspot.com/review/1089-fallout-4-benchmarks/page6.html) all the way up to DDR4-4000.

Would this be because the Fallout 4 developers were somehow leveraging the massive memory bandwidth of the PS4 or the ESRAM module in the Xbox One in their codebase?

It's definitely because of the very advanced and forward thinking game engine that the game runs on. The Creation Engine was at least a decade ahead of everything else when it was released so we should see a few more years of use before it needs to be updated.

JackCY · Jan 24, 2019

BroadPwns said:
No, it's because Fallout 4 is a garbage game running on a single core while pushing tons of garbate data through memory.

And god forbid it goes above certain FPS it then craps out, same as GTA5 craps out above around 150fps. Top bucks spend on development yet the engines they use are pretty damn awful.

BroadPwns · Jan 24, 2019

Meanwhile FEAR runs gorgeously in 800FPS without crapping out xD

Kaltenbrunner · Jan 27, 2019

I need to try this game now with i5-9600k, rtx 2070, 16GB 3000MHz CL16. I had a sad feeling on day 1 of this game release when I had i7-2700k, 980 ti 8GB ddr3 2133. The textures and shapes where just so old and boxy. And then I didn't care about the family at all. And then got sick of the low FPS in Boston. And I got sick of pipe pistols, which makes sense in a post-apocalypse world, but...

Bethesda needs a newer engine or whatever. As much as I love Skyrim, right now I'm looking at ALL MAXXED 1440p Far Cry 4 and it's beautiful and I just started. (I had to fix the unplayable stutter and darkness in the settings file 1st tho, and the mouse is still too heavy/slow)

And the are using the SAME old engine for TES6, which really scares me, if thats the reason the graphics are so old by now. And look at the mess of FO76, it's just all bugs and boring, and not much improved graphics.

I'm worried FO4 still won't work now.

DDR4 4000 memory and Fallout 4: why does it make a difference?

8051

BroadPwns

Desolutional

mattliston

Seyumi

Desolutional

The Pook

BroadPwns

The Pook

BroadPwns

Desolutional

bigjdubb

JackCY

BroadPwns

Kaltenbrunner

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